207 replies to this topic

[An Ax Murderer]

Comparing Hawken to MWO is like comparing Ketchup to Mustard. You can have ketchup on your hot dog, mustard on your hot dog, or...

BOTH!!

Crazy, I know..

They are two separate games with different play styles.

[Cpt Grunge]

An Ax Murderer, on 27 October 2012 - 01:56 PM, said:

Comparing Hawken to MWO is like comparing Ketchup to Mustard. You can have ketchup on your hot dog, mustard on your hot dog, or...

BOTH!!

Crazy, I know..

They are two separate games with different play styles.

Nailed it...

[Shataraterevar]

From all the video I've seen how is Hawken different from Quake 3 arena? I don't see anything different besides the graphics. (ok you have jump-jets instead of jump platforms and rocket jumps, yay).

I mean Hawken IS a new Quake with mechs as characters. Not to say it's bad or something, but it's a fact. If you liked the Quake 3 playstyle, Hawken probably is for you.

MWO is something entirely different, with tactics, strategic movement, focus fire and cover playing the major role in game. As for comparison - really there's nothing better to compare it to than to World of Tanks (and whatever you say, it is a good comparison to how MWO playstyle is in game).

Also it seems in Hawken individual skill is the key to winning and in MWO team skill is. So it seems Hawken will be more individual oriented game, while MWO really will encourage you all the time to play in a team and as a teamplayer.

[New Breed]

I've never once had motion sickness in any game or movie...


until I played Hawken.

[Mavairo]

Hawken makes me think of Armored Core before the devs took a dump on the game. (in other words AC4 and 4 answer and before... not that travesty known as AC5.. which is a mechwarrior knock off if all the mechs had a horrible targeting interface, sluggish controls, and glass jaws)

I will probably enjoy both.

Just like I've always loved Armored Core, and Mechwarrior equally.

(runs away from the flaming pitch forks and stones )

Hawkens game play is going to likely be alot more frenetic, the team work there is going to be oriented around setting up murder holes, baiting enemies and zipping out before the bait is destroyed, basically it's 1/2 aerial combat and 1/2 ground pounding. While the gameplay of mechwarrior is more like tank engagements.

Edited by Mavairo, 27 October 2012 - 04:16 PM.

[Anonynonymous]

Both MWO and Hawken are F2P. What's stopping you from trying out both? And yeah, theyre entirly different games, so quit comparing them. Even in Hawken forums I've seen a few threads comparing these two. The conclusion is always that it's not worth the time to compare apple to orange.

[Dataman]

I'm in Hawken CB weekend and while Hawken is 'good' mecha shooting fest, it's not my preference of what a mech game should be.

let's talk about mech design... there are lots of gameplay and game mechanic review.

MWO mech is a mech

Hawken mech is... It is a Mech, but definitely not my liking.

cyberpunk+steampunk style mech... many parts are exposed. hydraulic ****, exposed skeleton, cables... it gives the vibe of 'this mech is fragile, throw it with a 105mm cannon and you win'


the environments are more lively than MWO, but actually gives you dizziness and confusing you because buildings are overwhelmed you. Platforms, platforms, more platforms, tunnels, debris, tall building, some sort of jumping platforms like in 'Quake' and 'Ricochet'

the cockpit is full of... debris... if you're piloting a real hawken mech, I bet you'll spend 10 minutes to figure out where's what and such.

But the HUD is quite simple.


MWO need to put mech status in mech cockpit, not neurohelmet this if you want to make a simulator

Edited by Dataman, 28 October 2012 - 01:19 AM.

[Freeride Forever]

Shataraterevar, on 27 October 2012 - 02:29 PM, said:

From all the video I've seen how is Hawken different from Quake 3 arena? I don't see anything different besides the graphics. (ok you have jump-jets instead of jump platforms and rocket jumps, yay).

I mean Hawken IS a new Quake with mechs as characters. Not to say it's bad or something, but it's a fact. If you liked the Quake 3 playstyle, Hawken probably is for you.

No no brah, they do actually have those jump platforms à la Q3 Arena &/or UT.

Considering what I've seen in the Hawken CB1 tonight versus what I've seen in MWO, Meteor also has a working game, PGI doesn't. I have limited experience in Hawken 'cuz I find it boring to play for very long but one thing I can say is that it works. It just totally works. There are a few minor objective gripes & the rest is just personal preference. All I really want to play is MWO & it's broke as ****. All I can complain about in Hawken that isn't based on taste is the UI text is super duper small & sometimes it won't let me into a match even if there's room. Also Hawken isn't saving any settings for me right now. Controls, audio, graphics are all reset every time I go in. That's a big pain. So 3 problems that I know of. I pushed a truck into a light post & the truck blew up leaving nothing behind which was kinda dumb, but it's just dumb, it's not broken & at least the environment has some responsiveness. They have 4 game modes, they now have 4 maps (I can't get into the new one any time I try though). The maps all look & feel basically the same, but there's 4 of them. I don't know much about MP gaming or F2P or development milestones but considering what PGI plans to go to OB with, Hawken coulda been launched months ago from what I've seen so far. PGI is kicking their *** as far as mechs go, like hella hella hella & JJing is a lot nicer but everything else from the unacceptable game breaking bugs to the huge lack of content is not gonna cut it for OB. Not when I compare to what the non-BT fanboys are inevitably gonna compare to. I think Hawken is a super goofy game. The concept fails for me & evidently so for other MW fans too but Hawken's execution is currently on par with what I'd expect from anything AAA. MWO's stability was comparable the first 2.5 months I played it. WTF happened? I guess the same could happen to Hawken too, but so far it doesn't look like it has. I'm doubtful that they waste time rearranging maps that there's nothing wrong with in the first place (River City? PGI? You listening?) or implementing things that there's no logical use for. An MG is useless when a laser would do anything better that an MG would be good for. MG is used on infantry? Laser's better. Maybe they'll up the damage or up the fire rate or rearrange the hardpoint system so more than one 1/2 ton gun can go where a 15 ton cannon can go, but if they don't, it was a big fat waste of time implementing it. New gamers, not BT zealots but GAMERS, are gonna see some of this **** & be like "who's the ******' ****** that came up with this? WTF good is "X" thing?".

Is anyone wondering if they're gonna throw in the giant R2/D2 just for ***** & gig's?

Edited by Freeride Forever, 28 October 2012 - 07:58 PM.

[siLve00]

Freeride Forever, on 28 October 2012 - 01:31 AM, said:

MWO was like that the first 2.5 months I played it. WTF happened?

what ?

no new mechs no new maps in 2.5 month ? what did they change in that time ?
iam just here for 10 days..... and well.. now iam realy worried about MW:O...

[Koniving]

To the original poster.

At first glance, Hawken does seem to offer urban combat, and as a concept it is a great idea; elemental-level walking mechs duking it out in highly populated, dense concrete and steel jungles. It's something we crave, so to speak, real urban combat with walking tanks with different roles.

But that's where it stops.

In Hawken, and yes this violates the NDA but the game's awful so I couldn't care less, you're in control of what might as well be a mechanized bicycle. It honestly feels like an FPS with "Different" weapon animations. You control as you would in unreal tournament 2004. Most people spend about 40% of their combat time bouncing around in the air. Your normal movement is a mechanized jog with floppy arms. You cannot look left or right without turning your whole unit; no torso, no head. Despite being huge, you can wedge into unrealistically tiny spots, and last time I played you can even exploit a bug to go prone. o.O; It does, in fact, run off of a Call of Duty engine. (No, seriously, it does.)

They call it "Mechwarrior meets Counter-Strike." In a sense, that's what it is. The maps are much smaller than they appear. Respawns are constant. There is a killstreak system (you know where this is headed; campers, no team work, everyone worried about their kdr). You can "repair" by holding still (more reason to camp).

As of the last time I played it, there were 3 types of units: (Not the actual names) Assault, Rocket, Sniper.

Unlimited ammunition (remember it has been a while, I was playing the Alpha). The assault only had to stop firing for an overheat. Less than half a second later he can spam for another minute.

Sniper had a one to two shot kill weapon, and it didn't matter where he hit. (I made it a point to shoot the hawken robot things in their toes because watching them fall over was funny. It wasn't as fun if you hit them up higher because they just slumped over instead of cartwheeled). Pew. Die. Tumble.

Movement feels like Team Fortress 2. Its version of jump jets in the Alpha makes you feel like a gundam pilot. Customizability consisted of 3 things. Left arm, right arm, and chassis. This of course has likely changed to include repair bot type, and probably a "special."

Gameplay relies heavily on the individual's "skill." Read: Ability to either 'twitch' game by reflexively shooting at things without a single thought, or camp and snipe. The levels, while widely interesting, are designed to make you think they are larger than they really are. The blur helps with that by disorienting you. The fact that one to six shots kills you will help ensure you won't learn the layout until you've played it for days.

A great pug's game; especially for those who enjoyed Quake and Unreal Tournament. To be honest, I view this as a mechanized Combat Arms. Seriously.

In my honest opinion though, Chrome Hounds and Armored Core would make better mechanized games. And as SAD as this sounds, Front Mission Evolved -- which to me was most poorly balanced game I had ever played before -- is better balanced.

It was in the alpha stage at the time. It may improve. It might not. Honestly all I could think about was Call of Duty with mechs. Especially as it counted up the kill streak. As any time I respawned there was a guy right behind me; or more often, I could hit someone soon as they spawn with a one shot kill to the barrel of their gun.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


MWO? Been beta testing since July 13th. Over time I have seen mechs added and given my feedback. For the most part it is generally heard. Seen bugs come and be fixed. I seen new maps added, and revamped several times. I'm seen promises of map variants. In the game, there are 10 mechs at the moment. At my last count a few weeks back, there are 20 mechs revealed but not currently available. Their focus has been bug fixes, tweaks to increase performance for lower end PCs, implementing new features recently developed for the Crysis 3 engine as well as creating their own. (Disturbing as it is, the engine does not natively support picture in picture. The advanced 4x zoom with picture in picture? Something they had to program in themselves in an engine that didn't support it). Thermal and Night vision? Overhauled at least once and redone. Weapons? Map bugs? Worked on; many of the ones I reported are fixed though not all. Game modes? There were at least 3 announced, and you should really hear what's planned for the finished product because we won't just be getting lobbies. We'll be getting a universe to fight in, planets to conquer and own with benefits in doing so.

What MWO lacks is man power. As a company, its employee count is quite limited which is likely tied with its past troubles with Duke Nukem Forever, and other endeavors. Now, however, not only is this project succeeding it's working out even better than they hoped for. It's my hope that they expand, and thrive.

Edited by Koniving, 28 October 2012 - 02:51 AM.

[Citizen Erased]

[Ancalagon]

siLve00, on 28 October 2012 - 01:38 AM, said:

what ?

no new mechs no new maps in 2.5 month ? what did they change in that time ?
iam just here for 10 days..... and well.. now iam realy worried about MW:O...

He's lying, or he forgot exactly what happened; look up the post with the previous patch notes. I believe we have gotten River City, The Awesome, The Raven, and The Cicadia as content since August, along with all the economy patches, the engine update and the various addons, such as a hit indicator, zoom and stuff like that. I can't remember if Caustic was released in August or not. This game has come a very long way since I first got into the closed beta in June; we had 5 mechs, two maps, and some very unbalanced weapons + hardpoints.+ hitboxes. Anyone remember the patch with the memory leak that forced you to restart the client after every game? Or the trollmandos!

[Lightfoot]

Hawken looks like MechWarrior with only the Light 'Mechs included.

They only advantage I would give Hawken over MechWarrior is it looks easier to control. [redacted]

I like games where you can see your own arm weapons firing. There is a much grittier feel to the combat and the weapons are easier to aim. The first game I saw this in was Aquanox which had some riotous weapons! Once you got your Gattling Plasma Cannons rolling Aquanox was quite a show. I wish MechWarrior was like this since on many 'mechs you should see the 'mechs arm weapons from a purely perspective based point of view.

[Svchost]

Where download link?

[Billygoat]

Lightfoot, on 28 October 2012 - 03:28 AM, said:

They only advantage I would give Hawken over MechWarrior is it looks easier to control. [redacted]

If you mean easier in a broad-strokes design sense, I agree with you. Hawkens mechs are basically standard FPS fare. Very familiar at their heart. Whereas MWO's are more like driving tanks.

If you mean easier in a technical sense, I'd have to disagree. MWOs mechs might have a higher learning curve, but at least IMHO, the controls themselves are pretty tight once you get used to the quirks of driving something halfway between a person and a tank. Hawkens controls, on the other hand, feel half-finished or placeholder. It's like a standard Quake or UT-style FPS but "ROBOTS!" as an excuse for why the controls are so loose and clunky. Yuck.

Shame too, because I really dig Hawken's art direction and potential but it's gameplay right now is a bit rubbish.

[Lightfoot]

Billygoat, on 28 October 2012 - 03:36 AM, said:

If you mean easier in a broad-strokes design sense, I agree with you. Hawkens mechs are basically standard FPS fare. Very familiar at their heart. Whereas MWO's are more like driving tanks.

If you mean easier in a technical sense, I'd have to disagree. MWOs mechs might have a higher learning curve, but at least IMHO, the controls themselves are pretty tight once you get used to the quirks of driving something halfway between a person and a tank. Hawkens controls, on the other hand, feel half-finished or placeholder. It's like a standard Quake or UT-style FPS but "ROBOTS!" as an excuse for why the controls are so loose and clunky. Yuck.

Shame too, because I really dig Hawken's art direction and potential but it's gameplay right now is a bit rubbish.

I haven't played Hawken so just going from the videos, but yeah that's what I meant. You get used to MechWarrior/piloting the 'mechs. They handle pretty realistically. MWO needs to finish their joystick support before I will give it my final approval rating. Even so, I am managing with a joystick. I am just not able to utilize my veteran 'mech piloting skills yet.

Edited by Lightfoot, 28 October 2012 - 03:48 AM.

[Evgeny Bear]

You know what i would like to see in MWO?

better use of JumpJets!!!!!!

I mean even Steel Battalion offers Dashing and side boost with Jets. Jump Jets in MWO are mere useless, especially when enemies are around. You lose speed and you can only move upward, no dashing, no movement to the side to avoid a shell fired at you.
Especially with Spidermech beeing released they have to introduce a better JumpJet mechanics, scince the spider was build to do so and increase survivability in this fragile and weak armed mech.

A Highlander doing dashing would look ridicilous in this heavy chassis, but lighter ones should have this.

movement now is riggid and lame, when you want to make a turn and end up in an invisible wall (obstacles) or house and cant move freely on the Battlefield.

[Garagano]

What i hear from a hawken beta tester:
Hawken is more like Q3 then UT. You play it fast and if you do not play it fast enough, you die fast!
The only and most interesting game mode in Hawken is the "Siege" mode (like Assault in ut2k4), its a interesting gameplay where you have to use your walking tank to gather energy to progress your team. But it converge into a "who can gather the energy faster" game, so in the long term this will also be a fail, imho. The Assault mode became abandoned in UT2k4 also very fast.

Team/deathmatch mode in Hawken is boring as T/DM always was, IMHO. I am tired of this mode since ut99, and i hope MWO will finally get some "sense" into this team-VS-team mech-beating with a little story or something.
You have only 2 weapons in the match, and winning in-fight depends on your current pilot skills compared to those of your opponent.

In Hawken the most of the time you "glide" over the surface with your "jumpjets", like you do in the Tribes games, but without the accelerating physics. And i don't like Tribes, too. =)
The "jumpjets" in hawken are silly, they are like jump boosters and are mandatory to play this game, not like in MWO where it is only optional and gives your special tactical possibility, for certain mechs in certain situations.
The walking speed is ridiculous slow, so the most of the time you are sliding/jumping or waiting for your jumpjets to be filled up again. -> no fun.
They have a big issue with the matchmaker, it still doesnt work, and their servers are overloaded. Many ****** cant even get into the game to play.

To be honest, in the current state of both games, Hawken makes overall a much more solid picture then MWO. It have more/interesting/innovative skill trees. The gfx look similar, but the fps is also very slow and demanding as MWO is. The UI is smooth and information is delivered clear to the user. Crashes are rarely from what i heared.
But after all, the tester get tired of the game very fast. This WE is beta test time, and the tester spended less then 3 hours in this game, just because the gameplay is boring and is not as fun as it is in MWO, ... even in the current state of MWO. (and i personally agree)

My current perception is: Hawken is much more "casual gamer" compatible then MWO currently is.
I can only hope that this will change in the future before the people out there loose all interest into a mechwarrior game, but with the current speed of content implementation, i have a little hope.
however, i will support MWO as long as the servers are live =)

my 2 cent

[Stone Wall]

What I liked about MW3 was the fast, but controlled feeling of battle.

MWO leans towards the slow, campy style of MW4. But while you can be fast in a light mech, there seems to be little control. Which is weird since they are going for realism, wouldn't you want to be able to have tighter control over a very expensive machine?

From this videos of Hawken, I'm liking the speed. It reminds me of having light mech battles in MW3.

[Shai tan]

I just deleted the Hawken Beta. Absolutely love its visuals. Cannot stand its more or less Virtua On style of game play. It is not a sim. I know, but its visuals would have you thinking it is. Its gameplay imho makes absolutely no sense. Why be in a Mech at all, if this was how they were gonna make movement feel???

I saw a vid of late of the incockpit movement of Killzone 2 when you are in a small Mech. THAT was cool, and plausible. Btw, "I" am a casual gamer, and I hated what I saw in the H-Beta.

"In Hawken the most of the time you "glide" over the surface with your "jumpjets", like you do in the Tribes games, but without the accelerating physics. And i don't like Tribes, too. =)
The "jumpjets" in hawken are silly, they are like jump boosters and are mandatory to play this game, not like in MWO where it is only optional and gives your special tactical possibility, for certain mechs in certain situations.
The walking speed is ridiculous slow, so the most of the time you are sliding/jumping or waiting for your jumpjets to be filled up again. -> no fun."

Totally agree with you there.