166 replies to this topic

[Kenyon Burguess]

no!

edit: i just wanted to say it a second time NO!

Edited by Geist Null, 04 April 2012 - 09:45 AM.

[Lord Storm]

NHUA is fine but it defeats part of the games primary design, which is the skills to loadout a mech that is not going to shut down in seconds or run out of ammo in a prolongued engagement. NHUA removes a whole plane of the games "fun". Any ***** can slap on the max armour and biggest guns to thier mech and then stand there and slug it out untill one falls down, usually by being legged. There is no skill or honour in NHUA it is also more open to abuse by Bots and macros. In short I vote: NO!

[CW Grayson]

I don't see why people still wandering off to "ruining game", unfair against HOLA players", "too much work for devs" etc.
It could work flawless like this:

Make it possible to choose a map and perhaps option buttons for
+ NH
+ UA
+ respawn

When going in such a room, NO xp/credits are given, no repair costs and no restrictions for mechs/weapons.
This way it would serve as some sort of training/tryout option also.
It would NOT alter the "normal" HOLA MWO game progress at all, it would be invisible for any hardcore-only-HOLA-player.
Also it would be no rocket-sience to implemend this, there's no need to make a new game for that, as NO alterations for
balance etc. are needed.
Implementing something like this would be a few-hours-job at most.

As said, if you don't want it, don't play it ever and you're not even recognize it's build in.

Edited by CW Grayson, 10 April 2012 - 10:04 PM.

[Aegis Kleais]

CW Grayson, on 10 April 2012 - 01:20 AM, said:

I don't see why people still wandering off to "ruining game", unfair against HOLA players", "too much work for devs" etc.
It could work flawless like this:

Make it possible to choose a map and perhaps option buttons for
+ NH
+ UH
+ respawn

When going in such a room, NO xp/credits are given, no repair costs and no restrictions for mechs/weapons.
This way it would serve as some sort of training/tryout option also.
It would NOT alter the "normal" HOLA MWO game progress at all, it would be invisible for any hardcore-only-HOLA-player.
Also it would be no rocket-sience to implemend this, there's no need to make a new game for that, as NO alterations for
balance etc. are needed.
Implementing something like this would be a few-hours-job at most.

As said, if you don't want it, don't play it ever and you're not even recognize it's build in.

IMO, a perfect solution. Provides users game modes they want and does not segregate the community (if a player only plays NHUA they could never be considered a part of the HOLA community) This will also maximize profits for PGI if they charge a premium for cosmetic items.

[Tannhauser Gate]

No to NH option.

You’re assuming that a no heat option will appeal to the “minority of NH players to maximize profits for PGI”. That is not the case. The reality is that the fan base will not only be made up of BT fans who want it to stay a sim (with heat) but there will be a lot of new shooter people who are used to options that remove challenges and reduce games down to its most unrealistic, frenetic, fraggiest, repetitive shooter possible.

Therefore, a No Heat option is actually a Heat option because NH will become the norm for all the players who want their Xtreme shooter frag numbers. Heat will become the option only used by a minority of players.

• NH option will alienate the core BT fans, split the community between the "shooter players” and the fans of a BT sim.
  
• If all players earn c-bills for all battle they engage in then NH players will get MORE c-bills because they can stay longer in game. Then all players will start playing NH to compete and make more c-bills.
  
• NH option will instantly obsolesce all the ammo-reliant weapons because everyone will take Beam weapons.

As the pole shows, the vast majority of people do not want a NH option. As MW4 has shown, people didn’t like the NH option then and it hurt the game with people leaving in droves. PGI is working hard to make this the most true BT action sim as possible. Letting the players dumb the game down will split MWO and hurt PGI profit margin as players leave in frustration.... again.




(my apologies for spelling and formatting errors. I sent this from my phone)

Edit: Ill qualify what I said by adding that a non-metagame non-cbill game without heat would be doable as long as it cant be used to earn skill points or otherwise abused to advance your pilot and it doesnt impact the game's normal battles.

Edited by LakeDaemon, 10 April 2012 - 10:03 AM.

[Aegis Kleais]

LakeDaemon, on 10 April 2012 - 09:43 AM, said:

Edit: Ill qualify what I said by adding that a non-metagame non-cbill game without heat would be doable as long as it cant be used to earn skill points or otherwise abused to advance your pilot and it doesnt impact the game's normal battles.

To my knowledge, this is exactly what people were asking for.

I would never suggest that the meta-game matches allow NH/UA.

NH/UA would always been for no meta-game interaction, no XP/MXP gains, no C-Bill gains and free access to all chassis/weapons/tech.

[SlagMaster]

You know for all of the folks that didnt like NHUA there were a lot of fun things about playing that way. It was a faster pace and unleashing on someone had a soothing affect. Now I dont think it should be part of the typical gameplay but it definately should be a retreat from the norm.. Maybe a cold world where heat isnt an issue and anything goes....

I get a kick out of the die hard "Heaters"

[Johannes Falkner]

Make NHUA a pay to play version.

[CW Grayson]

Sorry if i cut out some of the posts, only trying to make the post clearer.

StaIker said:

A game where unlimited firepower is cool and you can just blast everything in sight. I'd say that if that's what they are looking for they should actually go and find that game, not try to make this game into that other game

They can get it here with my suggestion.

Siilk said:

You threw out the rest of my post, where I pointed out that weapon and mech balance would have to be done twice: for NHUA and HOLA. Having both arcade and sim gameplay to be balanced against the same assets would be horrendous task to do and balancing only one of them would most likely lead to one of the game types being completely broken.

Also solved in my suggestion.

Lord Storm said:

NHUA is fine but it defeats part of the games primary design, which is the skills to loadout a mech that is not going to shut down in seconds or run out of ammo in a prolongued engagement. NHUA removes a whole plane of the games "fun". Any ***** can slap on the max armour and biggest guns to thier mech and then stand there and slug it out untill one falls down, usually by being legged. There is no skill or honour in NHUA it is also more open to abuse by Bots and macros. In short I vote: NO!

I don't like it and you don't like it, but what about the people who like it? I see no harm for me if anyone CAN play that way, noone is forced to do so.

LakeDaemon said:

You’re assuming that a no heat option will appeal to the “minority of NH players to maximize profits for PGI”. That is not the case. The reality is that the fan base will not only be made up of BT fans who want it to stay a sim (with heat) but there will be a lot of new shooter people who are used to options that remove challenges and reduce games down to its most unrealistic, frenetic, fraggiest, repetitive shooter possible.

Exactly, but what's bad about this?

LakeDaemon said:

Therefore, a No Heat option is actually a Heat option because NH will become the norm for all the players who want their Xtreme shooter frag numbers. Heat will become the option only used by a minority of players.

No. The HOLA game will be the full monty with universe-changing, economics, well the sim play in all it's full glory (i hope for it, at least).
NHUA is just a tutorial mode without all the things i love about BT. Again, if anyone wants to play it, no prob for me.

LakeDaemon said:

• NH option will alienate the core BT fans, split the community between the "shooter players” and the fans of a BT sim.
  
• If all players earn c-bills for all battle they engage in then NH players will get MORE c-bills because they can stay longer in game. Then all players will start playing NH to compete and make more c-bills.
  
• NH option will instantly obsolesce all the ammo-reliant weapons because everyone will take Beam weapons.

No prob for me when the community is "split", as they don't interfere with my suggest.
As said, NHUA players get nothing and loose nothing.
Oh my, i know what i would take into a NHUA game and mind me, it would be more ammo-weps than you can count.

LakeDaemon said:

As the pole shows, the vast majority of people do not want a NH option. As MW4 has shown, people didn’t like the NH option then and it hurt the game with people leaving in droves. PGI is working hard to make this the most true BT action sim as possible. Letting the players dumb the game down will split MWO and hurt PGI profit margin as players leave in frustration.... again.

Hm, first you say most people don't want it, next you say most people will walk away from HOLA, if i got you right.
I say, everyone who doesn't want HOLA, wave them goodbye to NHUA and i will have a fun game with them from time to time. They still are in the game and still help MWO staying, good thing.
I'm not afraid that NHUA will overwhelm the "true" HOLA-game. There are SO many hardcore-players just waiting for something like this (including me) that we always will fill this universe.
And remember, everyone started once. I'm sure many of the start-with-NHUA players will change to the real game once they get the hang of it to get the full expierience.

LakeDaemon said:

Edit: Ill qualify what I said by adding that a non-metagame non-cbill game without heat would be doable as long as it cant be used to earn skill points or otherwise abused to advance your pilot and it doesnt impact the game's normal battles.

What i wrote, of course this should not be possible.

Aegis Kleais™ said:

IMO, a perfect solution. Provides users game modes they want and does not segregate the community (if a player only plays NHUA they could never be considered a part of the HOLA community) This will also maximize profits for PGI if they charge a premium for cosmetic items.

That's just it. When such a mode is implemented it will attract more players, simple as that. PGI will try to make a good mechsim that satisfies us hardcore BT.fans, but there's nothing wrong to attract "normal" players also which maybe never heard of BT. A "simple" mode to have fun is just like a tutorial stage and many will come to HOLA to get the full expierience of the game.

Edited by CW Grayson, 10 April 2012 - 11:01 PM.

[Perfecto Oviedo]

I never played MW4, so I can't speak for how NHUA split the community, as some have said, but just by reading this thread alone, I could see how it could happen. Not that it 100% would, but that it could, without provocation. Just reading this thread, and seeing the unnecessarily harsh and sarcastic tones many in this thread have used (whether provoked or not) just talking about NHUA, I am wary of implementing it...

That, and I'm not a fan of that gameplay style/takes away the sim feel/yadda yadda it's all been said before.

[CeeKay Boques]

CW Grayson, on 10 April 2012 - 10:56 PM, said:

That's just it. When such a mode is implemented it will attract more players, simple as that. PGI will try to make a good mechsim that satisfies us hardcore BT.fans, but there's nothing wrong to attract "normal" players also which maybe never heard of BT. A "simple" mode to have fun is just like a tutorial stage and many will come to HOLA to get the full expierience of the game.

I don't believe the "I like giant Robots, but I dont' want restrictions, but BattleTech bots are best" group exists. I think there are 50 of these players, and they play MW4.

If they do exist, they don't have any money. ;P
If they do exist, they are the kind of players who won't want the pace of BattleTech, who wants slow plodding infinite abilities? Might as well do unlimited speed and JJ too...
If they do exist, they will play Hawken and Reign of Thunder, who are focused on this type of game play and will do it better.

Microsoft Flight just tried this, and didn't work. (Half Sim/Half "For the masses") People who are inclined towards sims want full marks. People who look at restrictions as ... restricting, aren't the customers you are looking for. *waves hand jediacally"

Do one thing and do it well. We don't need the "other people", there are 6 other Mech Games coming out THIS YEAR. Why compete with what they do? Do BTech in realtime instead. If the other games aren't enough for them, they will end up here. Honestly, if they are that kind of player, they will try NHUA BTech, and end up at RoT and Hawken, and Armored Core instead, so why bother?

[Lothahnus]

What does it matter if there is NHUA or not. If you like NHUA play it if not dont. I myself play both. But I see no reaseon not to have it. By the way hi Thoth. long time no see.

Edited by Lothahnus, 11 April 2012 - 07:33 PM.

[CW Grayson]

Technoviking, on 11 April 2012 - 12:44 PM, said:

Microsoft Flight just tried this, and didn't work. (Half Sim/Half "For the masses") People who are inclined towards sims want full marks. People who look at restrictions as ... restricting, aren't the customers you are looking for. *waves hand jediacally"

No, M$ flight is no sim, just a .. i don't know what it is. I played former M$ flightsims and they where much better.

For the rest of your post:
As i explained, it doesn't take much work to give a NHUA mode, so can you tell me why exactly they shouldn't make one?
Even if there are only 60 players who like it, better they be here as be in another game.

Edited by CW Grayson, 12 April 2012 - 06:16 AM.

[ASC]

I played some mechwarrior before, MW4 i think, but online NHUA kinda wrecked it for me. Searching for games I had a good connection to, only the NHUA had enough players to have a real match, and as I liked playing Medium mechs even though they were underpowered in the game, all too often i'd go down from a alpha strike which normally would overheat just about any mech in one salvo.

I may have gotten revenge with overpowered X-Pulse lasers just to make a point once or twice.

[Siilk]

ASC, on 12 April 2012 - 06:30 AM, said:

only the NHUA had enough players to have a real match

Pretty much this. NHUA would attract a lot of FPS and arcade action types. Compared to "hardcore" MW/BT fans that would be the overwhelming number. This would make actual MWO target audience into a minority and, well, you know how minority's needs are rarely taken into account. First you got NHUA, then you got 3rd person view, later you got XP and cbills awarded for NHUA matches because of all the whining of the frustrated NHUA crowd, as they can't compete in HOLA mode but still want their cbills... All this would make MWO into "Mechassault online". I'm not against having such game, I just don't want it to share playerbase with MWO. Just make Mechassault online a separate product, made with MWO engine, end everyone would be happy.

[CeeKay Boques]

CW Grayson, on 12 April 2012 - 06:15 AM, said:

As i explained, it doesn't take much work to give a NHUA mode, so can you tell me why exactly they shouldn't make one?
Even if there are only 60 players who like it, better they be here as be in another game.

This is where we disagree, and we'll probably just have to shake on it. Like I said, there are a whole slew of other Mech Games coming, and they will probably do "MAXIMUM EXPLOSION AND POWER!!!!" better. I think they should go there. I don't think they will like MWO NHUA better than Reign of Thunder or Hawken, fast paced games where heat isn't even factored, but plenty of exploding robots are.

As someone who can tell the difference between MS Flight and FSX, do you really think that on any other sim, "Invulnerablity" or "easy Avionics" brings any sort of player to the table? Maybe for 10 minutes. And then they will want either MORE realism, or LESS.

As a HOLA player, as most of us are, they impact me not. They help the fanbase not at all, and take away the dev's time if they have problems, issues or requests.

If perks and things to help you rock your mech matter, why would they buy those things, in a NHUA? How would they with no XP given? Why are we spending time on this again? People pleasin'? bah.

Siilk, on 12 April 2012 - 07:38 AM, said:

Pretty much this. NHUA would attract a lot of FPS and arcade action types. Compared to "hardcore" MW/BT fans that would be the overwhelming number. This would make actual MWO target audience into a minority and, well, you know how minority's needs are rarely taken into account. First you got NHUA, then you got 3rd person view, later you got XP and cbills awarded for NHUA matches because of all the whining of the frustrated NHUA crowd, as they can't compete in HOLA mode but still want their cbills... All this would make MWO into "Mechassault online". I'm not against having such game, I just don't want it to share playerbase with MWO. Just make Mechassault online a separate product, made with MWO engine, end everyone would be happy.

Yes, this slippery slope. What if I'm wrong there ARE 1000s of them, they start paying, and start getting catered to? What if they are all rich guys spending huge amounts of cash on their NHUA pimp rides? PGI abandons the dream and chases the dollars of InYoF4c392 Chaos! Anarachy! Cats and Dogs, living together!

[Thorn Hallis]

ASC, on 12 April 2012 - 06:30 AM, said:

I played some mechwarrior before, MW4 i think, but online NHUA kinda wrecked it for me. Searching for games I had a good connection to, only the NHUA had enough players to have a real match, and as I liked playing Medium mechs even though they were underpowered in the game, all too often i'd go down from a alpha strike which normally would overheat just about any mech in one salvo.

Well, MW4 is the perfect game for NHUA, as it's no sim at all.

[Havoc2]

The NHUA in MW4 only really took off as the game itself started to die (IMO). By the time my guild and I decided to leave, we had joined a few NHUA leagues/ladders simply because most of the normal leagues and ladders were starting to die off. When I stopped playing the NHUA lobbies were still FAR outnumbered by the HOLA, but they had more consistent matches.

NHUA popularity was a result of MW4's slow arcade death, not a cause.

[ASC]

}{avoc, on 12 April 2012 - 09:19 AM, said:

NHUA popularity was a result of MW4's slow arcade death, not a cause.

Probarbly if its done right MWO simply won't need NHUA

but either way i seriously doubt we'll be seeing it, as light mechs are almost always underpowered in NHUA so using it would undermine all the efforts to make them useful.

[CW Grayson]

So, it's not about the NHUA mode, it's more that you're afraid the players will get over the game and us "normal" ones will be pushed out?
Then it's up to us to not let that happen Besides, as NHUA will only be a simulator/side mode, i doubt many people will stay there.
I doubt that PGI would let this in the story-driven game, if th4ey wanted to make a shooter they could. Have faith in them for once and bash 'em later.