95 replies to this topic

[Debio]

i undestand that a robot is a machine built to perform some task, but i see a mech as being as much of a robot as a car or a tank. if someone does not know what a mech is, i would explain that it is a humanoid-shaped machine piloted by a person - not a "giant robot". what do you think?

[Belorion]

Not a robot, although why not call it one right? A case could be made for cyborg, due to the nural link.

[Grinner]

My guess?
Robot is easier to say than ten meter tall bipedal armored war machine.

[LilDragon]

well .. as google said:
ro·bot/ˈrōˌbät/


Noun:

• A machine capable of carrying out a complex series of actions automatically.
  
• (esp. in science fiction) A machine resembling a human being and able to replicate certain human movements and functions.

[Korlandril]

They are called robots often because they pretty much are. Most of the fucntion and actions a mech takes ( In canon) is determined by its operationg system. Mech are almsot fully automonous, but a mechwarrior is connected through the neural helmut to balance is and provide it with the finer motor skills it needs , ans to actually pull the trigger to fire its weapons. Its like riding a horse. You ride a horse, and you just ride it and tell it where to go, but the horse, decides how its going to do that

[Adridos]

Because they don't understand the term, which pretty much could be translated as "worker", which easily indicates that thing caries out teh task automatically. There is little to no difference between a battlemech and a fighter jet, but noone ever thought of calling them robots (excluding Japanese manga, but...).

[Debio]

Korlandril, on 05 October 2012 - 11:22 AM, said:

They are called robots often because they pretty much are. Most of the fucntion and actions a mech takes ( In canon) is determined by its operationg system. Mech are almsot fully automonous, but a mechwarrior is connected through the neural helmut to balance is and provide it with the finer motor skills it needs , ans to actually pull the trigger to fire its weapons. Its like riding a horse. You ride a horse, and you just ride it and tell it where to go, but the horse, decides how its going to do that

like an airplane with full autopilot?...

[Jost]

Debio, on 05 October 2012 - 11:12 AM, said:

i undestand that a robot is a machine built to perform some task, but i see a mech as being as much of a robot as a car or a tank. if someone does not know what a mech is, i would explain that it is a humanoid-shaped machine piloted by a person - not a "giant robot". what do you think?

You've been given some reasons. Mine (given by is that "robot" is shorter than "walking tank", which is my shortest alternative.

But here's another, given by Grinner above, which I'm pretty sure explains the usage by a lot of people: precisely because it bothers some people.

But if we're going to complain about words, can we address the topic of the spelling of "trial" mech?

[Korlandril]

Debio, on 05 October 2012 - 11:31 AM, said:

like an airplane with full autopilot?...

Yes similar but in canon. mechs bordered on AI, the pilot essentially is there to guide them and to actually pull the trigger, somthing that the desighners didnt want to put into the hands of a machine. So almost...being inside a drone aircraft and giving it the order to fire and telling it where to go.

[Strum Wealh]

According to some, a "true robot" has three defining criteria:

• Sensory capacity - the ability to determine the characteristics of the local environment (and changes thereto)
  
• "Mental" capacity - the ability to autonomously process the sensor data and decide on a course of action (including inaction)
  
• Physical capacity - the ability to enact some action that can significantly modify the local environment

For example, the average PC is not considered a robot as it generally lacks the "physical capacity".
By contrast, some clockwork mechanisms are not considered robots as they lack the "'mental' capacity".

In the case of BattleMechs, they possess the sensory capacity and physical capacity, but they lack the autonomous "mental" capacity - they require a separate operator (the pilot) to function.
By contrast, if the BattleMech's DI computer featured a highly-advanced AI construct that was able to pilot the 'Mech itself, completely without need for a MechWarrior, then it would be a true robot.

As it is, however, calling a BattleMech - or any other piloted mecha (such as a Heavy Gear, most Mobile Suits, and so on) - a "robot" could be considered inaccurate.

In real-world terms, something like the Foster-Miller TALON is called a robot mainly because "non-autonomous teleoperated reconnaissance platform" is cumbersome.
Technically, something like a Roomba is actually "more of a true robot" than something like the TALON...

Edited by Strum Wealh, 05 October 2012 - 11:47 AM.

[Grraarrgghh]

Because it ****** off the cheeto-encrusted lore grognards.

Duh.

[Xeno Phalcon]

Mechs are pretty easy to describe as 'walking tanks', its a common and popular theme to move away from the 'giant robot' stigma and more towards war machines/tank like way of being seen and described. (Folks familiar with Front Mission will know Wanzers, or Wanderpanzers for "Walking Armor") War games are popular, war games with big freaking robots are also popular and tend to (see always) have the one-up on any other game featuring robots .

[Debio]

mmk. so it seems that there are valid reasons explaining why ppl use the term "robot". and, it seems that it will continue to be used in perpetuity since it was used in canon. the precedent has bben set. i will just have to live with it and get comfortable.

[Zerex]

i think the real reason is due to the geeks (i'm one) being overly picky, when u look at all the differnet names given to "walking tanks" in games and films, its alot. then add the geek factor of 11 to the mix, with geeks correcting them when they call a Gundam a Mech or a Core a Labor, people just give up and call them all "Robots"

just a few to start the ball rolling

• VT (vertical tank) ----- steel battlion
  
• Mech ----- battletech
  
• Core ----- Armored core
  
• Labor ----- Patlabor
  
• Hound ----- Chromehounds
  
• Gears ----- Heavy gear
  
• Gundams ----- Gundam
  
• VF's (variable fighters) ----- Macross
  
• Titans ----- Warhammer 40,000
  
• Jox ----- Robojox

the list is endless, feel free to add more, and if ur one of the ones checking to make sure that the right names to the right games or films, ur the reason evryday people call them "robots"

Edited by Zerex, 05 October 2012 - 12:41 PM.

[Debio]

Zerex, on 05 October 2012 - 12:39 PM, said:

...snip,,, and if ur one of the ones checking to make sure that the right names to the right games or films, ur the reason evryday people call them "robots"

especially funny

[Strum Wealh]

Zerex, on 05 October 2012 - 12:39 PM, said:

the list is endless, feel free to add more, and if ur one of the ones checking to make sure that the right names to the right games or films, ur the reason evryday people call them "robots"

'Tis both funny and saddening because its true.

And, I must confess: I did check...

Zerex, on 05 October 2012 - 12:39 PM, said:

just a few to start the ball rolling

• VT (vertical tank) ----- steel battlion
  
• Mech ----- battletech
  
• Core ----- Armored core
  
• Labor ----- Patlabor
  
• Hound ----- Chromehounds
  
• Gears ----- Heavy gear
  
• Gundams ----- Gundam
  
• VF's (variable fighters) ----- Macross
  
• Titans ----- Warhammer 40,000
  
• Jox ----- Robojox

The primary mecha of Armored Core are actually called "Armored Cores", shortened to "ACs".
"Core", by itself, is one of several components of an AC (specifically, the central component containing the cockpit, power system, and so on).

In the context of Chromehounds, the name of the mecha is properly rendered in all-capitals, as though it were an acronym - that is, 'tis "HOUNDs" rather than "Hounds".
(On a related note, the term "Chromehound" refers specifically to mercenary HOUND pilots employed by the organization known as Rafzekael, and sent into battle in service of Rafzekael's clients; not all HOUND pilots are necessarily Chromehounds.)

The general name of humanoid mecha in the Gundam franchise is "Mobile Suit" (shortened to "MS"), while "Gundam" refers to a very specific class of MS sharing specific characteristics (dual cameras/eyes, some variation of the characteristic "V-fin" antenna, higher-than-average movement speeds and acceleration performance, and so on); not all MS are Gundams, in the same way that not all BattleMechs are Assault 'Mechs.
(The Gundam franchise also has a second class of mecha, called "Mobile Armor" (shortened to "MA") - basically, all of the one-pilot combat-oriented mecha that aren't "proper MS", such as more-conventional fighter craft and larger "super-weapon" units.)

And, the "jox" in Robot Jox refers to the pilots themselves, not the machines; one of the characters is a genetically engineered pilot, and is referred to as a "gen jox".

(I know - it's terrible, and I'm sorry. )

[Zerex]

Strum Wealh, on 05 October 2012 - 01:49 PM, said:

'Tis both funny and saddening because its true.

And, I must confess: I did check...



The primary mecha of Armored Core are actually called "Armored Cores", shortened to "ACs".
"Core", by itself, is one of several components of an AC (specifically, the central component containing the cockpit, power system, and so on).

In the context of Chromehounds, the name of the mecha is properly rendered in all-capitals, as though it were an acronym - that is, 'tis "HOUNDs" rather than "Hounds".
(On a related note, the term "Chromehound" refers specifically to mercenary HOUND pilots employed by the organization known as Rafzekael, and sent into battle in service of Rafzekael's clients; not all HOUND pilots are necessarily Chromehounds.)

The general name of humanoid mecha in the Gundam franchise is "Mobile Suit" (shortened to "MS"), while "Gundam" refers to a very specific class of MS sharing specific characteristics (dual cameras/eyes, some variation of the characteristic "V-fin" antenna, higher-than-average movement speeds and acceleration performance, and so on); not all MS are Gundams, in the same way that not all BattleMechs are Assault 'Mechs.
(The Gundam franchise also has a second class of mecha, called "Mobile Armor" (shortened to "MA") - basically, all of the one-pilot combat-oriented mecha that aren't "proper MS", such as more-conventional fighter craft and larger "super-weapon" units.)

And, the "jox" in Robot Jox refers to the pilots themselves, not the machines; one of the characters is a genetically engineered pilot, and is referred to as a "gen jox".

(I know - it's terrible, and I'm sorry. )

they were all off the top of my head, next time i post a comment about people being overly pedantic i should maybe check that i'm right on everything before i hit that post button

[Rustik]

Because "Big Stompy Robot" is fun to say and everyone can understand it, even grandma.

[verybad]

Because it's really nitpicking to not call it a robot. It's close enough that the term fits.

[Kelthar]

Curious. I'd like some examples from the folks that think a mech has a "near AI" computer system. I've seen nothing that even implies this. Particularly "in canon".

Edited by Kelthar, 05 October 2012 - 02:08 PM.