9 replies to this topic

[Fox Fire]

Damn I Hate HATE HATE all this freaking new technology.

I hooked it the Coolmax 650w NW series Power supply to the motherboard and Nothing, Nothing, nothing happens!

Isn't a 5/12 Volt power connector supposed to be 12 and 5 freaking volts? I'm reading 4.5v ans 13.5 on those Yellow/black/black/red old syle connectors on a new Power supply.

I have searched Google, Intel, tech forums and NO one tells me what the fricken hell the ME_STATE LED lights mean on the Intel Motherboard. I only got a vauge refference to Blue Death. A blue light that comes on when nothing happens.
That is exactly what happens on my mother board, but I haven't a freaking clue where to start. Give me a damn 486 CPU beeping code chart ANYDAY over this damn dreak.

The Problem can be ANYTHING, from bad memory, bad cpu, bad Motherboard, Bad power supply, freaking evil spirits!

I have no secondary hardware to test this on.

Can anyone give me any direction in this? Where do I even start to diagnose the issue?

[Sighard Aglachad]

13.5v is way too high for a 12v rail. What do you mean by "old style connectors"? These molex connectors?
http://en.wikipedia....e_connector.jpg
Unless your power supply is truly a split rail design (and I highly doubt that one is) that will be the same voltage supplying the VRMs at the socket. If it is a relatively new board with a digital controller for the VRMs maybe there is a failsafe that keeps it from booting when voltage is way out of spec? I wouldn't trust anything putting out over 12.3v on the 12v rail myself. Verify you've measured the 12v rail properly with your multimeter and if it's really 13.5v return the PSU and get your money back. Find something highly rated at http://www.jonnyguru.com or other good reviewing sites like http://www.hardocp.com (mostly high end but some low wattage models as well).

Edited by Sighard Aglachad, 05 October 2012 - 07:58 PM.

[Catamount]

Unfortunately, diagnosing hardware is sometimes very difficult by any method other than just swapping in replacement components.

For starters, more information would help. Does the machine actually power on? Do fans, spin, etc?

POST problems are especially hard to diagnose :/ You can start be eliminating RAM as a likely culprit. Drop down to one stick of RAM, and alternate between the sticks you have. If it doesn't boot with one of your sticks of RAM, alone, then it probably isn't bad RAM (the odds of one stick failing is remote; the odds of two sticks concurrently failing is astronomical).

More generally, it's my experience that CPUs are only very, very, very rarely DOA, especially compared to Mobos and RAM. So you can test the RAM for being a likely culprit, and cross off the CPU as being likely right away (it still might be your problem, I'd just leave it as last priority). That leaves Mobo and PSU, and between them...

FWIW, if I had to take a random guess, I'd say PSU. I hate to say it, but that unit seems rather substandard. The wattage distribution isn't characteristics of high quality units. Only being able to output ~80% of power on the 12v rails is uncharacteristic of most decent modern units (not all, but it's usually a good hint of a cheap unit). The unit also isn't 80Plus certified. An 80Plus certification doesn't guarantee that a unit is good, it's just that being able to meet some part of that standard is pretty much the bare minimum for not being atrociously bad. That's the second hint of that unit being trouble. The third hint is that there are no professional reviews of this unit, not for the NW-650, not for any of the NW series. This means they aren't sending samples to reviewers, which is not a sign of great confidence in these units.

Sighard Aglachad, on 05 October 2012 - 07:54 PM, said:

13.5v is way too high for a 12v rail. What do you mean by "old style connectors"? These molex connectors?
http://en.wikipedia....e_connector.jpg
Unless your power supply is truly a split rail design (and I highly doubt that one is) that will be the same voltage supplying the VRMs at the socket. If it is a relatively new board with a digital controller for the VRMs maybe there is a failsafe that keeps it from booting when voltage is way out of spec? I wouldn't trust anything putting out over 12.3v on the 12v rail myself. Verify you've measured the 12v rail properly with your multimeter and if it's really 13.5v return the PSU and get your money back. Find something highly rated at http://www.jonnyguru.com or other good reviewing sites like http://www.hardocp.com (mostly high end but some low wattage models as well).

Agreed, and yes, those two sites are excellent. Hardware Secrets also does good PSU reviews.

Beyond those three there aren't many sites that do do good PSU reviews, sadly.


OP, we could also just give you recommendations on good PSUs (backed by reviews of course), to save you the trouble. 95% of PSUs are pure and utter crap, so the list of passable units is pretty small (and good units even smaller). Right now, it's basically restricted to units from Corsair, Seasonic, PC Power and Cooling, OCZ, Cougar, LEPA, and Rosewill (who only recently began having good PSUs), maybe XFX (I haven't kept up with their line much), and that's pretty close to it, save maybe one or two brands I've forgotten, and even some of the units from those brands aren't very good, just passable. Out of dozens of brands, about half a dozen sell a significant number of workable units.

That actually makes recommendations pretty easy, since the list of good units is comparatively tiny

Edited by Catamount, 05 October 2012 - 08:16 PM.

[Deatonis]

Cata, it's not very hard to diagnose, he obvously knows what he is doing and is using a PSU diagnostic tool. However I do agree with you and he should post more information.

[Neput Z34]

If you have a Volt-meter here is what you can do.

Disclamer: Do so at your own risk

1. Unplug everything, PSU from the wall, ATX connector (mother board) and other componets, 12V CPU, HDD, etc.

2. Insert a Jumper wire beetwen Green wire (there should only be one aka 5v VSB) and a Black wire (ground) in a 20/24 pin ATX
connector, then plug in your PSU into the wall, that will power on the PSU.
3. Measure the 12v (yellow) 5 v (red) 3.3v (orange) -12v (blue) to ground (black).

If those values are are not with in a fraction of a volt with no load, your Power Supply is "dead" and a mother board could also be damaged.

also UL # will let you know who made it (Exxxxxx)

also head over to http://www.jonnyguru...name=NDArticles for more info if you wish.

Edited by Neput Z34, 05 October 2012 - 10:38 PM.

[Catamount]

Deatonis, on 05 October 2012 - 09:38 PM, said:

Cata, it's not very hard to diagnose, he obvously knows what he is doing and is using a PSU diagnostic tool. However I do agree with you and he should post more information.

A PSU tool is only going to reveal PSU-related problems, not necessarily the cause of a failure to POST. If his PSU is giving power that out of spec, how does one know he didn't fry his motherboard? Of heaven forbid, his CPU?

It's a given that he should replace his PSU; the unit seems to be junk, and it clearly isn't performing. Nevertheless, should that not prove to be the only thing wrong -though I wholly expect it is- saying his problems are "easy to diagnose" when he's explicitly asking for help is well, unhelpful

[Deatonis]

Catamount, on 06 October 2012 - 07:28 AM, said:

A PSU tool is only going to reveal PSU-related problems, not necessarily the cause of a failure to POST. If his PSU is giving power that out of spec, how does one know he didn't fry his motherboard? Of heaven forbid, his CPU?

It's a given that he should replace his PSU; the unit seems to be junk, and it clearly isn't performing. Nevertheless, should that not prove to be the only thing wrong -though I wholly expect it is- saying his problems are "easy to diagnose" when he's explicitly asking for help is well, unhelpful

Have you never used a diangostic tool or something? I respect your feedback but half of what you said was uneducated hog wash. Most "modern" day motherboards will not start the machine if there is unregulated or irregular voltage as it KNOWS this will damage the equipment attached to it and nor provide an even current in which the machine can run. I had a bad psu hooked up to a board once and the board wouldnt start and kept screaming at me with loud sudden high pitch squeels. (obviously from the speaker on the board). Point being if the tool says its irregular and the board wont start, it may very well be the issue not the cat and mouse youre playing like he would make up a false claim.

[Snailio]

Fox Fire,

In my experience, which is vast, without anymore information than given, would say it appears to be a bad PSU. I'm not saying this in a condescending tone so take no offense, but never ever save money on a PSU. You don't need the most expensive thing out there, but stick with reputable manufacturers. Here is a great article to get you started:

http://www.tomshardw...r-oem,2729.html

[Catamount]

Deatonis, on 06 October 2012 - 09:22 AM, said:

Have you never used a diangostic tool or something? I respect your feedback but half of what you said was uneducated hog wash. Most "modern" day motherboards will not start the machine if there is unregulated or irregular voltage as it KNOWS this will damage the equipment attached to it and nor provide an even current in which the machine can run. I had a bad psu hooked up to a board once and the board wouldnt start and kept screaming at me with loud sudden high pitch squeels. (obviously from the speaker on the board). Point being if the tool says its irregular and the board wont start, it may very well be the issue not the cat and mouse youre playing like he would make up a false claim.

I'm not sure where you think you're going with this, but it isn't anywhere relevant, let alone helpful.

I've already told him to replace the PSU; so have others. Should that fail to be the problem, I'm doing exactly what he asked and outlining how to check out his other components. This has nothing to do with him making up a "false" anything; I'm not even sure where you're getting this stuff. So what, exactly, is your point here, again?

Also, you're right that motherboards have various means to try to protect themselves and components from bad power, to a point, but bad PSUs are still easily able to damage components. If they weren't, no one could care about bad power supplies. I've seen bad PSUs fry components in desktops and laptops alike (bad/incompatible bricks in the case of laptops), on several occasions. It's not something I observe often, thankfully, but it does happen. Since this machine hasn't even started up properly, I doubt that's the case here, but I'm not going to rule anything out, either.


Let's just have him replace the PSU, and go from there, shall we?

Edited by Catamount, 06 October 2012 - 02:37 PM.

[Catamount]

OP, on the subject of PSUs, your own testing indicates it's bad, but I wouldn't even bother replacing it with another. Insofar as I can tell, the model is just crap (though anyone else here who might know more about the internals/performance should feel free to correct me there).

If you could return it for something else, that would be ideal. As for what you should be using, Corsair's running a good deal withthis: http://www.newegg.co...N82E16817139028

That should end up being $58, less another $20 from Corsair after MiR


Another option would be this Rosewill unit:
http://www.newegg.co...N82E16817182200

It's superior to the Corsair unit in many respects (way more power on the 12v rails), and if you're not going to bother with rebates, it's about the same price.

Edited by Catamount, 06 October 2012 - 02:37 PM.