34 replies to this topic

[Soviet Alex]

On the one hand, Medium mechs (40-55 tons) are the most common in the Battletech universe. On the other hand, if everyone can get a Heavy, why use a Medium? So here's a suggestion to make these workhorses more playable: give them extra module slots in the cockpit.

A heavy or assault mech with fewer slots would to have to specialise sooner, because the number of module upgrades which they could use at any one time would be more limited. Whereas a medium mech could fulfil multiple roles in a single mission, and accomodate a broader range of pilot designs, because of the added flexibility of carrying extra modules.

Just a thought.

[Damocles]

This is a good suggestion and I would expect they utilize this in their module system

Cheers

[cinco]

people will use them cause they're more mobile. you don't have to set artificial balancers. common sense things like speed, weight, etc works.

[Siphonaptera]

cinco, on 17 March 2012 - 10:58 AM, said:

people will use them cause they're more mobile. you don't have to set artificial balancers. common sense things like speed, weight, etc works.

Unfortunately the two mediums added so far are as slow as most heavies (64 kph). When they add some faster ones then yes, the speed will matter.

[Nik Van Rhijn]

So far the 2 heavies are more mobile than the mediums. Ones faster and the other can jump.

[Victor Morson]

This is probably the most controversial topic on the forums, and a very valid concern. Threads you might want to check out:

http://mwomercs.com/...ncing-solution/
http://mwomercs.com/...r-battle-value/

No worries about a repeat thread in this case, you basically asked the same question in a different manner than what was talked about (and is being talked about) previously.

[ictaris]

this idea is worth thinking about it, but i think we should not forget, that mwo will be a team game. u dont approach a heavy mech head on with ur mediummech and hope to overwhelm him with pure force. additional slots for gear wont help. either u lucky-shot him or u plan ur attack together with teammates. if u r worrying about outnumbering, i think they will limit the tonnage per team per match. so that two 100to-assault-mechs will have to face up to eight 25to scouts, etc...

Edited by ictaris, 17 March 2012 - 02:23 PM.

[Victor Morson]

ictaris, on 17 March 2012 - 02:23 PM, said:

this idea is worth thinking about it, but i think we should not forget, that mwo will be a team game. u dont approach a heavy mech head on with ur mediummech and hope to overwhelm him with pure force. additional slots for gear wont help. either u lucky-shot him or u plan ur attack together with teammates. if u r worrying about outnumbering, i think they will limit the tonnage per team per match. so that two 100to-assault-mechs will have to face up to eight 25to scouts, etc...

Limiting team tonnage is what those other threads are about exactly; or limiting teams by other factors like C-Bills/BV/etc.

The fact MechWarrior is a team game, ironically is the biggest problem - a medium could take an assault, possibly, in a 1v1 by being more maneuverable but in a 12v12, the team with the biggest guns is probably going to win; that's the gist of the discussion taking place.

[Damocles]

Other things than top speed are important in mobility;

Turning speed/radius, acceleration/deceleration, torso twist speed.

MW4 had these things but the noticing the difference was difficult, hopefully MWO will depict this more dramatically.

[Cyote13]

Also remember that the L/M/H/A set up is pretty arbitrary. there is not a lot of difference between an 55 and a 60 ton mech.

really in a fight between a Dragon and a Shadow Hawk...one a heavy and one a medium it would come down to pilot skill and maybe a little luck.

[Victor Morson]

Cyote13, on 17 March 2012 - 03:34 PM, said:

Also remember that the L/M/H/A set up is pretty arbitrary. there is not a lot of difference between an 55 and a 60 ton mech.

really in a fight between a Dragon and a Shadow Hawk...one a heavy and one a medium it would come down to pilot skill and maybe a little luck.

That's true. However, it gets a little less arbitrary when we are talking a Shadow Hawk versus an Awesome. Even less so when we're talking 10 Awesomes vs 10 Shadow Hawks.

[Damocles]

Cyote13, on 17 March 2012 - 03:34 PM, said:

Also remember that the L/M/H/A set up is pretty arbitrary. there is not a lot of difference between an 55 and a 60 ton mech.

Offtopic but this is the EXACT reason why I am not interested in a full mechlab. It's just a 5 ton difference and a new look! Wew!

[Cyote13]

Victor Morson, on 17 March 2012 - 03:42 PM, said:

That's true. However, it gets a little less arbitrary when we are talking a Shadow Hawk versus an Awesome. Even less so when we're talking 10 Awesomes vs 10 Shadow Hawks.

well 55 vs 80 does make a lot more of a difference than simply being in different categories

[Nik Van Rhijn]

Cyote13, on 17 March 2012 - 04:01 PM, said:

well 55 vs 80 does make a lot more of a difference than simply being in different categories

In particular because of the way BT was set up originally the mech at the top of each weight range was in the "sweet spot" for engines and thus had a slight bonus. Often a 55 ton mech was effectively the equivalent of a 60 ton mech.
It will be interesting to see what happens as the devs comments indicated that they didn't want to put limits on drop weight etc but use the "roles" to get people to use different mechs. People being people i can't see that happening in PUGs - which will be the majority of games. mercs are the only organised groups so far. Factions don't have player made "units" within them (at launch).
A lot will depend on what choice of mechs we have and how much, or little we can alter things in the mechlab.
Beta is going to be interesting.

[Redshift2k5]

The effect of module slots seems to be forgotten in most of the other threads on the issue. There are other reasons why people will use lights and mediums instead of only heavy/assault, but I think people have forgotten about modules! Forgivable ,since they're a new feature and nobody has experience to know just how they will affect gameplay. But, I think the extra module slots will be a nice extra factor in favour of a medium mech in contrast with a similar heavy.

[Dlardrageth]

All nice and well, but still kind of tiptoeing around the issue what happens, if 25+ players in assault Mechs are in a matchup queue and you join in with a medium Mech. As only medium. Sounds like a recipe for either "epic" scouting performance (possibly in a Whitworth, haha) or you having won the role as "team mascot". Waiting to become run over. Same if you want to form up a team for a set tonnage before the match. I can already see people going emo/ballistic/egomaniac about how they insist piloting their 100-ton Mech. Even if that means the next man in the team has only a whooping 40 or 45 tons left to work with at maximum.

Aka: "Screw you, hippy, I don't give a **** if you are 5 tons short, I'll pilot my Atlas and give a **** if you have issues with one useless medium nOOb Mech or another. I am an elite pilot in my uber Atlas and thus will stay in it. You will be ****ing useless anyway! **** off!" And the likes of that...

As I don't seriously expect PGI to implement an individual tonnage limit/allotment per Mech for each pilot (which could be a nice randomizing feature tho), occurences like this statement above are prone to happen. Makes one actually think of how randomized a matchmaking for PUG games might be a good idea for the game as a whole. Because stuff like the example above might definitely lead to a distinct lack of teamwork when "Mr.1337 Atlas" (see above) needs any kind of help from a medium Mech on his team. I would find it hilariously funny, if, after that comment in the example above, the medium pilot in the match straightaway refused to scout and told the Atlas pilot to do it himself, as he's so much better and not "useless" apparently. Oh the rage ensuing...

[Outlaw2]

The way to handle BV for PUGs compared to organized matches should be different.

For PUGs the automated match-maker should take over. Say a match has a 12,000 BV total (this BV total can be different for every match...more "important" planets can have higher BV). The match-maker will then look for players and 4-man groups that queue up with mechs totaling 12,000 (give or take +/-100 BV). It should give preference towards making a 12-man team with a "balanced" loadout (3 lights, 3 meds, 3 heavies and 3 assaults) and towards players taking mechs in BV ranges not often taken. So if you are in a 500BV light, and 90% of the other players are in 1500BV assaults, then you will get an almost instant queue pop. The rest wait in line, or drop into something that will quicken their queue.

For organized matches, let the teams distribute the BV amongst themselves without need of the matchmaker.

Edited by =Outlaw=, 18 March 2012 - 09:35 AM.

[Soviet Alex]

Ultimately, we don't know how mission balance is going to work. We'll just have to wait & see. Maybe we'll have companies of Atlases & everything else will be obsolete. Maybe we'll have to put some of each category of mech in a company. Maybe lighter mechs will earn XP faster or cost less XP to level up. Who knows? The point I'm glad that some of you picked up on is that currently we don't have a role for the medium mechs. The Dragon & Catapult are better in a stand-up fight, the Jenner is better at recon & raiding (4xmedium lasers backstab), and none of them would be much more expensive in C-bills, Battle Value or tonnage. Extra module slots would help mediums to become jacks of all trades, because they'll never be masters of one.

[Cyote13]

When we get a few more faster mediums I think they are going to fill the Counter-recon role. Even a Trebuchet or Griffin with a decent pilot could make some light scout mechs worry about all the incoming missiles or PPC rather than trying to find the heavies.

Edited by Cyote13, 18 March 2012 - 11:32 AM.

[Nik Van Rhijn]

Either they get it right or they don't. If I'm in a PUG and get told - your last you've got 20 tons - I'll walk cos I'm not a light pilot. If the alternative is 11 Atlas' and a scout - I'll also walk. I love BT/MW but I'm past putting up with hassles. Theres always MWLL or any of the other gmes that are coming out. Much as I'm looking forward to this game life is too short.