34 replies to this topic

[Soviet Alex]

Nik Van Rhijn, on 18 March 2012 - 12:31 PM, said:

Either they get it right or they don't. If I'm in a PUG and get told - your last you've got 20 tons - I'll walk cos I'm not a light pilot. If the alternative is 11 Atlas' and a scout - I'll also walk. I love BT/MW but I'm past putting up with hassles. Theres always MWLL or any of the other gmes that are coming out. Much as I'm looking forward to this game life is too short.

Mate, we should copy that quote into every other thread on these forums. Sums it all up perfectly.

[Soviet Alex]

Actually, there's one role which the Centurion & Hunchbank do fill perfectly: Rookie. They are both good mechs to start with whilst you are learning the ropes. The question remains, why would you stick with them once you can afford to trade up? Which is why I suggested additional module slots.

[canned wolf]

Both of the mediums better close range hitters than the two heavies listed so far. The Dragon mounts an AC/5 LRM 10 and two medium lasers, the centurion has an AC/10 rather than an AC/5. The catapult outdamages all of them, but assuming minimum ranges for LRM's and slower tracking speeds for it's torso mounted lasers, up close it's doubtful that it will be able to do more than deffend itsself. The Hunchback is second in damage, but none of it has minimum ranges.

For me, it would deppend on the map. The Centurion and Dragon are similar with different focuses, while the Hunchback and Catapult are specialist mechs. I can see situations where I would use any one of them.

[Nik Van Rhijn]

The Hunchback is an ideal partner for the Catapult espcially on more open maps where it would provide the short range protection. Add a Centurion and either a Dragon or a Jenner and you have a pretty good general purpose lance.

[Victor Morson]

Nik Van Rhijn, on 19 March 2012 - 01:03 PM, said:

The Hunchback is an ideal partner for the Catapult espcially on more open maps where it would provide the short range protection. Add a Centurion and either a Dragon or a Jenner and you have a pretty good general purpose lance.

Or you could just back the Catapult with 3 Atlas, because they match the close range firepower (3x AC/20s) while still able to assist the Catapult's range attack (1xLRM/20 / 2x LRM/10) plus a lot more armor, firepower and similar speed to the Hunchback.

Is there something a Hunchback does better than an Atlas, I'm still looking for an answer to that one?

[mockingfox]

Personnally i love medium mechs especialy the Uziel and its twin PPC's
(altho the xbox MW had one with twin gause rifles which is the only thing i liked about that game)

in a sea of heavies and assult mechs i feel that medium mechs should have the distinct advantage of being more versitile and well rounded. they should also have more modules than bigger mech's on average.

this would mean that a group of medium mechs vs a group of heavies could still have a chance if they played agents the enemies strengths even though in a straight out fight they would lose.

[Jake Valeck]

mediums are cheaper to buy and maintain. just another way for those with less $$ and little play time can still enjoy the game.

[Soviet Alex]

Jake might have a point. Here's the comparison:

Centurion-9A. 3,491,500C$, BV=772, 50 tons.
Hunchback-4G. 3,467876C$, BV=851, 50 tons.
Dragon-1N. 5,036,800C$, BV=952, 60 tons.
Catapult-C1. 5,790,126C$, BV=1,165, 65 tons.

That's a big jump in price for a smaller increase in Battle Value or tonnage, whichever the game uses to balance games. But we don't know what we'll be starting with, so it might not matter.

[Karl Streiger]

Soviet Alex, on 20 March 2012 - 02:51 AM, said:

Centurion-9A. 3,491,500C$, BV=772, 50 tons.
Hunchback-4G. 3,467876C$, BV=851, 50 tons.
Dragon-1N. 5,036,800C$, BV=952, 60 tons.
Catapult-C1. 5,790,126C$, BV=1,165, 65 tons.

The Dragon has the highest engine rate resulting in a expensive heavy unit. The Shadow Hawk for example is able to have the same load out but on a 55t chassis you have lower costs.
An we are talking about production costs not economic prices. Would like to see some mini economics in the game -> 5 Hunchbacks available resulting in half the price of a single available Catapult.

The only advantage of some medium mechs that may count in battle is that you get a mobile, adequate armored and good armed battlemech.
Trebutchet no jumpjets, 1 less laser, but faster -> smaller Catapult
Griffin jumpjets no medium laser -> smaller Grand Dragon

What dutys on the field can't fulfilled by a heavy unit?
Hunter Killer -> keep speed with a scout and bring it down with better weapons
Heavy Scout -> what you can't kill you can outrun
Heavy Skirmisher -> if they ignore you you will stab them into their backs - and this time it will hurt

To find a good advantage for slower medium units is harder:
maybe they are smaller and more mobile so that they can doge attacks?
smaller MAD signature make them harder to spot in urban terrain or you have a low visual range

Edited by Karl Streiger, 20 March 2012 - 06:07 AM.

[canned wolf]

The Hunchback is designed for urban fighting, so it makes since that its a little hard to employ outside of that setting. If they do recon right then a Cat/Commando combo should eat an Atlas's lunch for 20 tons less weight. A Hunchback on its own should be even with a dragon or Catapult in an urban fight. I can't think of a way for a single mech to bring down an Atlas, but teams should do it nicely for less cost. Artillery has been mentioned by the devs as I recall. Slow mechs don't do well with artillery.

[Jack Gammel]

They've pretty much already revealed that the big advantage mediums will have over heavies and assaults is mobility.

By mobility I am including:
-Faster torso twist
-Faster arm/torso weapon movement
-Possibly better movement/speed control

So heavies will probably be slower at drawing beads on targets than mediums, and mediums would probably be more manueverable.

[Soviet Alex]

This caught my eye:
http://mwomercs.com/...460&qpid=155212

Sorry I don't know how to quote from one thread into another, but it's the Big Piranha himself talking about the medium mechs place in your battleline.

[Dark Fox]

Because of the gameplay mechcanics of MWO this might not be a great idea, but I'm fresh out of a replay of Mech Commander 2 and they seem to have their own way of addressing it that did seem to work.

They made it so when pilots level up, they can specialise in the mech weight equivlent. So being promoted to regular they could specialize in scout mechs (specialization makes them harder to be hit(better at dodging I suppose)), promoted to verteran they can specialize in medium mechs, promoted to elite can specialize in heavy mechs, and promoted to ace specialize in assault.

What this did was even with heavy mechs availble, my mech warriors were already specialized in medium mechs. Spending their next promotion on heavy mech would be wasteful since the pilot can only pilot one mech at once of course. Making it so early game you can specialize in medium mechs well before you can access heavy ones at all will encourage players to take the specialization, thus making it a wasted skill if they choose to move up to heavy mechs, in addition to making him better with medium mechs anyway.

Now on it's own this wouldn't be enough. Further into the game said pilot wouldn't survive combat with enemy heavy/assault mechs in his bushwacker, I had to put him in a Mad Cat just to have enough HP. But this is still one idea that could be used with some of the others being presented that could help.

Another thing that made medium mechs appealing was how much more vast a selection there was. The medium mech of the lowest tonnage was the Sha Yu, which you could add to the team basicly at the same weight as a light/scout mech. Up to the Bushwacker which is known for it's great adaptability on it's own. Again though, MWO you are one pilot so the question of "if I sacrifice a heavy mech for a medium one, I can cram in yet another medium mech as well" so the tonnage thing may not be a big a deal. Unless of course their is a tonnage limit for your whole lance.

[Soviet Alex]

FAO: Dark Fox. The Role Warfare blogs and Q&As already give us a pretty good idea of how pilots will specialise. And in the link I posted, Russ Bullock (the bloke from all the interviews) said that the matchmaking system would pair like-for-like companies. So if you field all heavies & assaults, you'll be paired against 12 heavies & assaults. The details have yet to be hammered out. The big unknown is what we'll be starting with.

I think that to keep Mediums interesting, they need to capture that "jack of all trades" feel in 2 ways.
1) Lots of different chassis, to give us more options.
2) More module slots than other categories so they fulfill multiple roles & support a greater range of player-types.
Personally, I'm undecided between driving a Dragon or a Hunchback. Variants, mech-lab & module capacity will probably determine which way I roll.

[Nik Van Rhijn]

At the moment Alex I'm still for the Hunchback, I like it's variants as they give you a good variety. you even have a fire support variant. This means you can play and level up without having to swap to a different mech chassis. This does depend on how it's going to turn out next month.