128 replies to this topic

[Karyudo ds]

I think urban combat is one of the things I'm really curious to see. The new rules for finding your targets sound exciting though I sort of hope we're not looking at MW4's indestructable buildings and gigantic streets everywhere.

[cinco]

city fighting=taking good positions then lie in ambush

[Jack Gammel]

The correct way to conduct a battle in an urban/city scape is this:
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Axman
That's right. I see all of you melee haters out there.
Or this:
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Annihilator

Really, mobility can become key to city fights. Jump jets can be great. It will be very interesting to see just how mobile light and medium mechs can be with jump jets in city terrain. Also, heavies and especially assaults might get some boosts depending on how destructible the environments end up being (coming through a wall like the red man). It has already been stated that weapons like ACs and LBXs are generally good, but the ability to use large city features to your advantage is key IMO.

Terrain features themselves may also end up being important. I don't think I've read anything that deals with this yet, but I suppose it would be possible that some heavy urban/industrialized environments may carry terrain features such as narrow streets, low warehouse buildings, etc. which may be accessible by lights or mediums but not heavies or assaults.

Of course, there are other terrain issues such as concrete which come from the TT game which should be taken into account as well.

Edited by Jack Gammel, 19 March 2012 - 01:06 PM.

[Mason Ventris]

All about mobility and being able to put a lot of hurt on someone in the short time it takes you to go from one building to the next.

[Shai tan]

I have never liked tight urban combat anything. And tbh I am not looking forward to doing it inside a huge azz Mech. Very much a freedom of movement type.

[cinco]

in short term combat situations, always ambush. mobility doesn't work in 10 minute rounds. you'll just get killed by multiple alpha shots from snipers and campers as you "mobilize" and "flank" your way into an early death.

[BerserX]

WOW! There's a lot of great views and opinions here! (In response to Petroff Northrup) To be honest, I have only played MW4, so it's the only style I'm familiar with. It will be very interesting to fight some of you, as there are several who appear to be very skilled at city-scape warfare.

One of my favorite urban missions is Styk: Peace Talks. I like taking my Loki into it (with an ERLL, in place of my ERML's). When it starts, I blast the Bulldog with my AC10, and then blitz my enemies at the end of the street, jigging around to throw off the missiles. I can typically engage and destroy all three 'Mechs, before they get within 500m of the convention center, on Veteran difficulty. In my opinion, this is one of the best fights/missions in MW4.

My favorite brawl, though, was on New Avalon: Hacker Run (I think). Ironically, I took my Nova Cat: Sniper variant (3 ERPPC, a lot of heat sinks, and a lot of armor... not very fast) into the battle. I ended up in the middle of the enemy base, cut off from my lance. All of the Caliopes were dead, but I had two Atlases coming at me (one from around a building, and the other next to me). I was beat up good, so I shot the closest Atlas in the leg, destroying it; and then threw my back against his back and used him as cover. I ended up killing both (saving my cover for last), but was beaten by the next wave of enemies.

These have been fun replies!

[Storm McIntyre]

Light Mechs have always been the best in city environs for me. I can usually annoy a heavy to give chase, and then lead him into a box with a lancemate waiting in ambush. JJ mobility in a city is an absolute imperative IMO. Being fleet of foot is a close runner up. Thunderfooted Mechs can be generally avoided until you are ready to deal with them. There are lots of nasty traps that can sprung inside a city, moreso than out in the field, IMO, so if you have access to them, USE THEM! Dirty tricks, and lots of up and in your face brawling is the bread and butter of city fights.

[HIemfire]

Red1769, on 19 March 2012 - 09:09 AM, said:

Though I would think that we can agree that some weapons are just not good or have limited usefulness in urban combat. Like LRMs.

One on one LRMs are not good for a city fight, throw in a spotter and you will royaly ruin someone's day.

Time to start thinking beyond the old computer style of equiping for direct fire/man on man fighting and start taking into account the capabilities of a group when utilized together. Burn the old box, use the flames to start up the coal for the smelting furnace for the new steel one that MW:O is laying out.

Keys to urban warfare:

• Mobility: Take advantage of any thing you have; faster turn rates, jumping over obsticles (including opponents), high acceleration rates to get you into and out of a strike before the enemy can hit back.
  
• Durabilty: As Important as good mobility is, you are probably going to get pounced on in an urban fight. A good combination of armor and durable components (Standard Fusion Engines and Compact Fusion Engines compared to Light and XL Engines in the board game comes to mind) can see you out of an unplanned fight so you can regroup and prep to re-engage on your own terms.
  
• Weapons: Higher impact and greater accuracy generally trumphs massed splatter fire. With combat ducking in and out of cover, the ability to punch large holes with each shot becomes nearly paramount in importance. The exception is when a teamate has eyes on and you can drop in your splatter indirectly with a reduce chance of return fire. LRMs are king in that case.
  
• Teamwork: Lone Wolfing (not the Merc type) will generally get you killed quite early on, especially with the limited sight ranges and unreliabilty that radar will probably have in an Urban environment. Back your teamates up, support each other, focus fire when able, but be willing to scatter and change your approach if the fight looks to be getting too intensive for the desired outcome.
  
• Never forget the objective of the fight: Sometimes you won't really have to fully engage your opponent to achieve victory. Simply drawing away from their positions in sufficent numbers could lead to an easy victory.

Just my half cent for what it's worth.

Edited by HIemfire, 19 March 2012 - 03:35 PM.

[Seabear]

Urban enviroments should really bring role warfare to the fore. Scout/ lights playing hide and seek with the big guys while feeding info to their buddies. Mediums doing the hit and fade runs until the emeny has to follow them -right into an ambush of the heavies. Hopefully with lots of jamming and counterjamming, units caught up in the fog of war, cries of "who are those guys'? (and where did they go?) I hate city combat, but I am looking forward to chance to do it! I think it's time to focus on teamwork rather than lone wolf style combat.

[Thorgar Wulfson]

heh i hope we can do things like in Citytech where you could walk your mech into the back of a light building letting its structure hide you then open fire when some poor ******* walks by and presents his arse armor. City fighting is all about the ambushes and using the terrain to get lines of fire that the enemy cant return fire down.

The city is were light and medium mechs can wreak havoc on heavier units. Of course puting your assault mechs hand over the ejection port of a wasp as you kick its chest in so you can see the red splat when they eject into your hand is fun too . That or seeing a phenoixhawk get mugged by an atlas is just funny.. wrong but funny.

[FallguySoldier]

Urban warfare? My strategy:

1) Grab a medium/heavy mech with jump jets.
2) DFA (Death from Above)
3) ???
4) Profit!

[Thorgar Wulfson]

FallguySoldier, on 19 March 2012 - 03:36 PM, said:

Urban warfare? My strategy:

1) Grab a medium/heavy mech with jump jets.
2) DFA (Death from Above)
3) ???
4) Profit!

heh just got to watch out for vibromined roofs and other mechs shooting buildings down on top of (or out from under) you.
Though i gotta admit DFA is my favorite manuever.

[HIemfire]

HIemfire, on 19 March 2012 - 03:18 PM, said:

One on one LRMs are not good for a city fight, throw in a spotter and you will royaly ruin someone's day.

Time to start thinking beyond the old computer style of equiping for direct fire/man on man fighting and start taking into account the capabilities of a group when utilized together. Burn the old box, use the flames to start up the coal for the smelting furnace for the new steel one that MW:O is laying out.

Keys to urban warfare:

• Mobility: Take advantage of any thing you have; faster turn rates, jumping over obsticles (including opponents), high acceleration rates to get you into and out of a strike before the enemy can hit back.
  
• Durabilty: As Important as good mobility is, you are probably going to get pounced on in an urban fight. A good combination of armor and durable components (Standard Fusion Engines and Compact Fusion Engines compared to Light and XL Engines in the board game comes to mind) can see you out of an unplanned fight so you can regroup and prep to re-engage on your own terms.
  
• Weapons: Higher impact and greater accuracy generally trumphs massed splatter fire. With combat ducking in and out of cover, the ability to punch large holes with each shot becomes nearly paramount in importance. The exception is when a teamate has eyes on and you can drop in your splatter indirectly with a reduce chance of return fire. LRMs are king in that case.
  
• Teamwork: Lone Wolfing (not the Merc type) will generally get you killed quite early on, especially with the limited sight ranges and unreliabilty that radar will probably have in an Urban environment. Back your teamates up, support each other, focus fire when able, but be willing to scatter and change your approach if the fight looks to be getting too intensive for the desired outcome.
  
• Never forget the objective of the fight: Sometimes you won't really have to fully engage your opponent to achieve victory. Simply drawing away from their positions in sufficent numbers could lead to an easy victory.

Just my half cent for what it's worth.

/sigh I forgot the most important part.

• Cover: In most urban environments you will encounter a plethora of buildings, trees, signs and what not. While these will generally mess with your ability to hit an opponent, it does the same to them. An AC shell into the building you just ducked behind is one that did not hit you and possibly blow of a limb. Call it free armor, call it cowardice, call it what you will. Those that make good use of it will have the edge.

Edited by HIemfire, 19 March 2012 - 03:49 PM.

[Helmer]

HIemfire, on 19 March 2012 - 03:49 PM, said:

/sigh I forgot the most important part.

• Cover: In most urban environments you will encounter a plethora of buildings, trees, signs and what not. While these will generally mess with your ability to hit an opponent, it does the same to them. An AC shell into the building you just ducked behind is one that did not hit you and possibly blow of a limb. Call it free armor, call it cowardice, call it what you will. Those that make good use of it will have the edge.

This plus Target degridation (I forget how they are saying loss of a target due to interference) makes Urban maps a potential guessing game on who is waiting around the corner. Which is why I was saying JumpJets could be nice . Why go around the corner, when you can go over the building...... then again, you could be jumping into a world of trouble.

[trycksh0t]

I don't fight in the streets. I'll be the guy jumping rooftop to rooftop and laying down pain from above.

[Jetset Quasar]

I love taking my Mad Cat Mark II in an urban setting just sit in an alley shut down wait for em to go by...startup two geuass rifles and 8 lrms strait in the back of an atlas hoorah!!

Edited by Dawn Treader, 19 March 2012 - 04:03 PM.

[Karyudo ds]

Jack Gammel, on 19 March 2012 - 01:04 PM, said:

The correct way to conduct a battle in an urban/city scape is this:
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Axman
That's right. I see all of you melee haters out there.

I voted for Axman because I like his policies on separating heads from shoulders. Good man.

Aegis Kleais™, on 19 March 2012 - 01:12 PM, said:

Hopefully, though I'm fine with a large part of it being so, urban maps aren't 100% skyscrapers. To have an area that is a park or an open area of land in a couple key locations is a nice breakup to what is otherwise seen as endless miles of city corridors.

I didn't even like how MW4 had the park in the middle because all the buildings were pretty much the same box. Would really like to see building size variation.

trycksh0t, on 19 March 2012 - 03:57 PM, said:

I don't fight in the streets. I'll be the guy jumping rooftop to rooftop and laying down pain from above.

I never did get how a +20 ton machine could land on a roof and not fall in either (in MW games). Contractors in the 31st century sure must not cut corners anymore!

[Steel Raven]

Mobility is a must, why you see Jump Jets on allot of close range brawlers, armor is another thing you need sense you never know whats waiting for you around the next corner. Why I favor energy weapons over ballistics, extra armor means less room for ammo and the last thing you want to hear from your computer in the middle of a fire fight.

[Artgathan]

There hasn't been a lot of mention of pilot skills yet in this thread so here's my adivce:

• Learn to use your Torso Twist: If you're running between buildings to pop off shots you need to be able to twist your torso to face a firing direction while your legs take you to the next spot of cover. Turning your entire mech (with the legs and torso facing the same direction) to acquire a target wastes precious seconds in which the enemy can (and will) fire on you. Additionally, since mechs typically move slowly in reverse, attempting to retreat is more difficult if your legs are facing the enemy: if they were pointed towards cover you could just accelerate and dash past into safety.
  
• Use your Arms: This is a similar argument to the torso twist above; the idea is to limit your exposure to the enemy while firing.
  
• Get a feel for Jump Jets: If your mech has them, get to know them. You don't want to be the guy jetting to a rooftop to escape, only to realize you're going to be about two feet short and crash. You need to know how far you can jump to maximize your mobility.
  
• Remain Aware: Urban combat is a game of multitasking. You need to remember where your allies are, where the cover is and where the threats are. There's an Atlas blocking your path to the city centre. Can you flank him by running down an alley? Is there another mech nearby who can? If you can't remain aware of the situation around you, you'll become overwhelemed by the enemy who can: they'll know where to find you and how to exploit you.
  
• Don't Commit to a Fight: This one comes with the small caveat of 'unless you kow you'll win'. The idea here is to not get trapped in stand-up fights (like in the 2009 trailer; where the Warhammer and the Altas blast eachother down an alley). While you may come out on top, chances are you'll take a lot of damage doing it (it's not hard to hit a target in that kind of situation).
  
• Keep Moving: If you stop to engage a target, you lose a huge advantage. If you're stopped, multiple enemies can trap you (box you in an alley for example). Remaining mobile makes it harder for enemy pilots to acquire you as a target and it ensures that you're much harder for a coordinated group to pin down.

That's what I've got off the top of my head. If I think of anything else I'll add it in.