224 replies to this topic

[Serith]

thats why i love a little clan mech called the puma even though its light/medium it has thick armor and fast as all hell ive seen plenty good pilots in the MW4 games take down an Atlas easy with a puma

PS: alpha strikes with small mech can easily take out bigger heavier mechs with timing and out running the big guy then hitting him with everything a few times IMO no light mech should NEVER be easily taken by a heavier mech with good piloting

Edited by Serith, 26 March 2012 - 02:29 PM.

[Carl Wrede]

steel talon, on 26 March 2012 - 02:16 PM, said:

Will we be able to see through the mech hit by HGauss?

No Mech will be shot with a HGauss as it does not exist until much later so it is a moot point.

[Gozer]

Hades Serpent, on 26 March 2012 - 02:08 PM, said:

Whereas on Mad Cats it's pretty much the whole face. >.< I love the Mad Cat, but the big-arse torso sections stick-out like a sore thumb. Torso twist can only do so much.



Lol. It's all good. I didn't think you were flaming. Flaming would be more like "You're wrong! GTFO N00B!!!" Gah...I hate players like that. Had one on ME3 multi that was yelling over the mic "You're all n00bs! I beat the game on insanity! I'm better than all of you!" ... We were all level 70+, and he was level 1. We kicked him. I digress...

You made good points. I for one do hope to see big arse battles sometime in MW:O's future, but I'll be happy if they go small for now to get the foundation right.

As for teamspeak...gods. I really wish there were a way to prevent people from using that. Think of the in-game possibilities! Intercepting radio chatter, jamming the enemy's comms...It could be marvelous!

They did the in game comms thing in Chromehounds on the Xbox and for a while it was awesome, until folks figured out that party chat was unaffected.

Don't get me wrong, IF MWO had a GOOD built in VOIP system I'd gladly use it, as would my clan as it's annoying being able to command my fellow tankers (WoT) but not the morons on my team.

As for group tactics having done everything from the normal random teams in WoT to full on Clan Vs Clan battles I can say there's a huge difference between organized groups vs random groups, as well as organized vs organized. They're all part of multi-player games and totally worth supporting. Heck the reason many join clans is so they can be the arse kickers in that organized wall of death coming over.

[renegade mitchell]

Garth Erlam, on 26 March 2012 - 02:20 PM, said:

I'm curious how you're all firing on the same 'Mech, while not being near eachother

Easy, your team has flanked the enemy from each side. One lance to the left of the enemy, one in front, the other right. All firing on one to three mechs they have in their sites. Also teamspeak and Ventrillo do wonders.

Edited by Renegade Mitchell, 26 March 2012 - 03:12 PM.

[Helmer]

Garth Erlam, on 26 March 2012 - 02:20 PM, said:

I'm curious how you're all firing on the same 'Mech, while not being near eachother

Arrows LRMs , from all directions ,from all over the map, blotting out the sun, making Garth cry, making Paul laugh.

[Vodkavaiator]

I started off playing WWII Combat fligh sims, where someone you have not seen making a pass at 500kmph can always or well almost always one shot you...

So I don't expect one shot kills would bother me overly much.

In the end however I think it depends largely on the balance of the game, it may be that having very high damage(aka one shot kills) is not very fun or interesting or the opposite may be true.

It would therefore be quite interesting to test this in the Beta at some point(ratch the damage up to an insane level and then lower it significantly).

[Dlardrageth]

Garth Erlam, on 26 March 2012 - 02:20 PM, said:

I'm curious how you're all firing on the same 'Mech, while not being near eachother

We'll just call in via Satellite link to Paul sitting in orbit in the WoBS Blake Ascendant and request a little fire support. That should do...

Or maybe a little surprise hotdrop of a yet-to-be-revealed prototype weapon system?

Edited by Dlardrageth, 26 March 2012 - 03:29 PM.

[Lorcan Lladd]

Renegade Mitchell, on 26 March 2012 - 03:11 PM, said:

Easy, your team has flanked the enemy from each side. One lance to the left of the enemy, one in front, the other right. All firing on one to three mechs they have in their sites. Also teamspeak and Ventrillo do wonders.

Again, you're not going to get anything done with just support fire 'Mechs.

You wouldn't even know the enemy's position or lance composition - which are necessary information for any successful flanking manuevers - without at least one scouting lance, and you're not going to keep them pinned down without a solid attack lance, nor are you going to prevent them from disabling your support fire lance without a dedicated defense lance.

[rafgod]

I don't care about the rest of you; but I should be able to one-shot kill any mech, anytime I want to, even if I only have a machine gun with 10 rounds left.

just cuz.

[Max Grayson]

Garth Erlam, on 26 March 2012 - 02:20 PM, said:

I'm curious how you're all firing on the same 'Mech, while not being near eachother

Had to edit previous

Interesting, i sense i am missing the secrect ingrediant

Edited by Max Grayson, 26 March 2012 - 08:10 PM.

[Arch Angel 09]

I think its okay to have a well placed one shot kill as long as its hard to land it which it should be and light mechs are faster and more for hit and run tactics. it is role warfare and sniping a speedy mech is not an easy task. if they play their role in the lance they should be on recon anyway and letting the medium and heavies duke it out. perhaps they should only let higher ranking pilots in the light mechs as they are agile and if properly piloted difficult to target. they just need to have some insentive to get good pilots in the seats whom understand they need to move to avoid death

[Max Grayson]

Hades Serpent, on 26 March 2012 - 02:08 PM, said:

Think of the in-game possibilities! Intercepting radio chatter, jamming the enemy's comms...It could be marvelous!

now this would add a whole new reason to play a light or medium mech with tons of electronics on it

[Max Grayson]

Lorcan Lladd, on 26 March 2012 - 01:58 PM, said:

The question is not whether you can disable a single enemy 'Mech or not, but rather whether you can keep that up against a whole, organized company.
I think you're oversimplifying things - there's much more to 'Mech battles than just gunnery.

I don't discount what you are saying, I am sure that a diverse array of mechs will be needed. But more to my point that 3 or 4 heavies rolling up a flank or slowly methodically picking targets at range with PPCs or gausses.

Unless the mechanics of MWO are drastically different then other similar type games its going to come down to the best coordinated group, scouting, calling artey (LRMS), coordinated focus fire on one target, blocking and not freaking out if you get a little damage

Edited by Max Grayson, 26 March 2012 - 08:10 PM.

[Lorcan Lladd]

Max Grayson, on 26 March 2012 - 06:48 PM, said:

I don't discount what you are saying, I am sure that a diverse array of mechs will be needed. But more to my point that 3 or 4 heavies rolling up a flank or slowly methodically picking targets at range with PPCs or gausses.

Unless the mechanics of MWO are drastically different then other similar type games its going to come down to the best coordinated group, scouting, calling artey (LRMS), coordinated focus fire on one target, blocking and not freaking out if you get a little damage

Ah, but that's a single lance.
I was under the impression that you were suggesting only fire support units or sniping 'Mechs would be used due to the possibility of one-hit-kills through coordinated fire.

Without having read the rest of the thread, I thought you were also suggesting that such conditions would make the game a sniping, one-hit-kill festival, which is not a very agreeable perspective, and so I attempted to present reasons why it would not be so.
I seem to have been mistaken.

As long as a single lance is dedicated to coordinated fire - we call that a fire support lance - and the others are successfully used to determine enemy positions, restrict their manueverability and prevent them from firing back...
...It is in fact a very effective strategy and I can only agree with you on that.

But fire support is so called for a reason; it doesn't get anything done on its own.

[Steamroller Stig]

Ezekial Karn, on 26 March 2012 - 11:46 AM, said:

Ok one shot kills CAN happen such as was stated above if your ac20 hits a light mech.. well that light mech is either missing parts or is dead. The trick should be hitting it which was not hard to do in older mechwarrior games. The issue with running up on larger mechs in tabletop which has been ignored in the mechwarrior games was the physical attack from the larger mechs. Now in older mechwarrior games I recall trying PVP out a bit and battles were way to fast People were exploding 20 seconds in which to me was kinda lame. I always prefered the PVE element of those games and completing the missions. If its a bunch of one shot kills and who gets the drop on the person first / who has better connection and reflexes in a mech I wont be playing this game long. If I want to deal with that kind of gameplay I will go play my Xbox. What I am hoping for here is the ability to play in a persistant universe where me and my buddies can form a merc unit get contracts go out and kick some arse against NPC mechs and occasionally face Other merc units on missions if we choose to do so.

While I understand that isnt everyones cup of tea it does appeal to many people or the Mechwarrior games would never have been as popular as they were / are. My biggest issue with PVP is there are always people who cheat either with modded controllers or with some other nonsense hack/ plug pulling. I have seen in PVP mechwarrior matches where one salvo from a heavy mech has cored a fresh assult mech which shouldn't really happen in a game like this IMO.

actually one thing I always liked about mech warrior games is a good pilot could drop almost any mech in 30 seconds with a decent med or heavy yet a bad one would take a half an hour trying to kill a flea. hell a great pilot could instantly kill with a a single PPC blast to the cockpit.

really if this game is designed well those who lose an assault in 20 seconds are either really bad or simply been outplayed by a great pilot or pilots.

With 8 PPCs a lance of Uziels could pretty much drop any mech in one volley if they are all well aimed.

[Steamroller Stig]

Garth Erlam, on 26 March 2012 - 12:18 PM, said:

Basically, no. Though we've yet to see a lot of 4 v 1's because people tend to at least stay in pairs. We had a pair of Jenners absolutely run roughshod over two Catapults and an Atlas. Focus-fire is tougher than it sounds, even sitting next to someone on your team - It's not a four on four where each Lance stands in the middle of a field.

On the 'legging' debate - you can technically try to leg; however it's equally viable to 'headshot' or 'core' (literally burn through the Centre Torso). Also Legging really only works on slow 'Mechs, as hitting a Jenner is hard enough - legging one is almost entirely down to luck.

yes focus fire is difficult but it's payout is tremendous. this is true in everything from Halo to EVE online

[Chang Wufei]

I havent played mechwarrior before (except as a demo at a store, while drooling) but knowing several other fps/multiplayer games (halo, world of tanks, etc) 1 hit kills are all part of the game.

The best are the ones the enemy never sees coming.
I hope we'll be able to have a medium sized mech loaded up with detection gear and a couple of Gauss guns in a group and snipe bigger mechs,

[zorak ramone]

Garth Erlam, on 26 March 2012 - 02:02 PM, said:

It's a fairly large object (in the case of the Atlas it's, uh, the head) but due to movement, turning, bouncing about, actually landing repeated hits is tough. If you're thinking of AC/20ing the head, it's a lot harder than it might seem. Thomas is the main sniper - he tends to go either Hunchback or Swayback and just target the head. Seems like 50% of the time he headshots someone in his Swayback he manages to overheat and kill himself, hahaha.

Also, yes organized groups will do well against non-organized groups. Again though, having a whole lance fire on one person is mostly unavoidable, but it's also pretty rare. Four 'Mechs standing that close are just asking for LRM's to annihilate them.

Thanks for the information and quick response!

Can you say anything about the armor situation? In CBT an AC20 to the head would be instant death. Is your armor model closer to CBT, where things like AC20s (and GRs/AC10s/PPCs) can one-shot (or come close to one shot) mechs with a head shot, or are you going for a MW4 armor model where armor has been amplified and is higher for larger mechs (i.e. headshots are harder).

Also, we haven't seen any action with PPCs or AC10s/5s. Can you say anything about headshooting accuracy at range using these weapons?

[bikerbass77]

One shot kills has always been part of the canon for battletech. Hell, one of the most famous charecters, the Black Widow herself Natasha Karensky was shot through her mechs viewscreen. A phrase I saw recently attached to battletech was 'kill the meat, save the metal'. This would especially make sense coming from a mercinary.

[Victor Morson]

This has never been a big problem in any version of MechWarrior before, nor in CBT; even where an AC/20 can destroy a light 'mech in one hit, it always seems like the light 'mechs are moving with such high to-hits it's not going to happen, or if they are hit, they get lucky and it blows off an arm or something to that effect.

So pretty much no matter how they balance AC/20s they've never, ever been an I-Win button against lights.