21 replies to this topic

[Wolv e]

I know it will be a while for players to be able to play clans after launch. However there are a few concerns I do have about the clans, as we know in "most" cases 1 on 1 a clan vs IS mech, clan wins. Which is why the bidding system came into play in the table game. Also the honor system itself which has seen overhaul over the years was very important for game balance.

Can we expect to see such a system in play that limits the tonnage of clans mechs that can be brought against the IS?

Also most clanners believe it is cowardly to use LRM's, where the IS will spam you with them, can we expect this to be true here and see limited LRM boats on the clan side? Yes I am aware the Vulture is a key clan mech, but most clans avoided them and had their "slaves" use them. (sorry forgot the term for slaves in clan)


Basically what kind of honor system can we expect to see from the clans when they do hit?

[Adridos]

On one of the interviews they made, they mentioned Clans having lesser number in matches and enforcment of Zell (honor code).

[Wolv e]

hmm not sure how you can enforce the honor system in an mmo, unless there are referees who watch the matches as we battle over areas.

The Zell was a strict policy that on paper worked well, but in reality the players mostly revolted. Like 1 on 1 for clan players only, even tho there are 12 clan mechs and 16 IS mechs in play..

They would have to make an IS mech un-targetable by other clan mechs once engaged by a clan player.

[John Wolf]

If Friendly Fire isn't enabled, Honor combat could be setup by making all other 'enemy' mechs friendlies until your current honor target is destroyed and you engage another one.

There are ways, but it will be a while for clans anyway. The easiest balance has been stated, Less Clan units vs IS units in a match.

I'm not sure I agree though with the earlier comment about Clan vs IS = Clan win. Thats like saying One mech vs another mech is an automatic win, nothing is automatic.. it comes down to the pilot.

[Karr285]

1 big way to enforce the honor system is by having the IS use credits to buy stuff and maybe have the Clanners use honour Points instead?

[Endo Steel]

It's true that an unskilled player in a Clan mech could lose to a skilled IS mech, but the devs can't factor that into their decisions. Game balance needs to always be done with the assumption of equally skilled players on both sides, as that is the only way to ensure that victory goes to the player with better skills.

One Clan star vs 2 lances sounds fair to me, at least for some game modes. Clan mechs should probably stay out of pure combat such as Team Deathmatch for a while after they come out, until the Inner Sphere mechs see their own tech advancements to be competitive. It's so hard to match canon with gameplay.

[CoffiNail]

Wolv e, on 20 March 2012 - 12:31 PM, said:

Also most clanners believe it is cowardly to use LRM's, where the IS will spam you with them, can we expect this to be true here and see limited LRM boats on the clan side? Yes I am aware the Vulture is a key clan mech, but most clans avoided them and had their "slaves" use them. (sorry forgot the term for slaves in clan)

No offense... but I think you are mistaking LRM for Arrow IV. MANY Clan mechs have LRMs, they have no problems using Long range missiles. Arrow IV is area effect, and if mechs are close together, it splashes both. This would end up voiding Zellbrigen. One of the reasons Nicholas Kerensky started the Clans with Zell was his brother Audrey Kerensky was killed when multiple opponents ganged up on him. Audrey was a very good MechWarrior, and only died because he was ganged up upon. Nicholas wanted to make sure fights were duels due to it then shows who has the better skills, not who can focus fire the best.

I have already tossed out, what I feel is the best option for Zellbrigen. A 'Claim target button'. What this does it your current target get's flagged on the radar, showing to your team that it is targeted for a duel. You at first can only have 1 target claimed at a time, with the possibility of multiple claimed targets as you advance in rank, (mainly to make sure some troll does not go flag all the targets as his, and thus stealing the honor points from other players.

Due to the nature of some players. I would see the fact of someone firing on your claimed target not necessarily voiding Zell, but they get almost no points for hitting someone's claimed target, because otherwise you have trolls who will come and screw up all the dueling on purpose. But if you think about how many crazy game achievements are in a lot of games right now (ie LFD2 and the guardin gnome achievement) they should be able to set it up to track people fighting 1 v 1 vs focus firing dezgra, and with luck fighting focus fire style will not net you as many honor points or exp sort of thing as fighting 1 vs 1. It can be done, but now we get to wait to see how PGI goes about the Clans.

[mockingfox]

"the only good clanner is a dead clanner"

[Seabear]

The difference between the clans and the IS when the invasion comes is that Clanners are for the most part warriors while spheriods are soldiers. A single Celt fighter could best any number of Romans in 1v1 combat, but the Romans consistantly beat huge armies of Celts (sometimes outnumbered as mush as 10 or more to 1) because they fought as an army. My fear is that there will be too many clan players who use IS tactics in clan mechs. This is not good. I agree that there needs to be some way to hold the clans to their honor code to give IS players a fighting chance.

The honor codes did change OVER TIME as the clans learned thru many fights over the years, but this was offset by the technologically advancement of the IS. There has to be a way to enforce the dueling mentality of the clans if this game is to retain any semblence to the BT/Mw universe.

Edited by Seabear, 20 March 2012 - 04:32 PM.

[Nanertot]

Wolv e, on 20 March 2012 - 12:31 PM, said:

Also most clanners believe it is cowardly to use LRM's, where the IS will spam you with them, can we expect this to be true here and see limited LRM boats on the clan side? Yes I am aware the Vulture is a key clan mech, but most clans avoided them and had their "slaves" use them. (sorry forgot the term for slaves in clan)

I believe the phrase is Bondsman?

[Thorn Hallis]

Wolv e, on 20 March 2012 - 12:31 PM, said:

Also most clanners believe it is cowardly to use LRM's, where the IS will spam you with them, can we expect this to be true here and see limited LRM boats on the clan side? Yes I am aware the Vulture is a key clan mech, but most clans avoided them and had their "slaves" use them. (sorry forgot the term for slaves in clan)

Thats only true for the Goliath Scorpions, and they see LRM it as the weapon of the unskilled.

[Stormwolf]

Clans aren't for everyone, this was clear in the TT and it should be clear now.
I would support a punishment system in addition to the reward system the devs posted.
You would have honor and dezgra points, I'll explain a system I worked out later today when I have more time.

[Gremlich Johns]

mockingfox, on 20 March 2012 - 02:16 PM, said:

"the only good clanner is a dead clanner"

Seriously? Do not troll with blatantly inappropriate staements in the Clan Threads, it reflects poorly upon you. If you want to continuet, create a "Let's bash the Clans" thread in the main "Mechwarrior Online Universe" threads and put that drivel there.

[CoffiNail]

Gremlich Johns, on 21 March 2012 - 05:54 AM, said:

Seriously? Do not troll with blatantly inappropriate staements in the Clan Threads, it reflects poorly upon you. If you want to continuet, create a "Let's bash the Clans" thread in the main "Mechwarrior Online Universe" threads and put that drivel there.

Oh Come on Grem, you know if that gets started anywhere but one of the house threads, it will get tossed in here. We have had a few anti-Clans threads get tossed in here, with a response of 'Why is this in our pro-Clan section?' o.O

[IceSerpent]

CoffiNail, on 21 March 2012 - 05:56 AM, said:

Oh Come on Grem, you know if that gets started anywhere but one of the house threads, it will get tossed in here. We have had a few anti-Clans threads get tossed in here, with a response of 'Why is this in our pro-Clan section?' o.O

I think it's good to get that drivel tossed in here - makes it easier to add those surats to the list

[Stormwolf]

I'm back and ready to get this thread back on topic.


Clan gameplay
The Devs have already stated in a interview that there'll be a reward system for mechwarriors who fight honorably. This is all good and well, but I am also of the opinion that you should punish dishonorable behaviour.

There would be a variety of "punishments" here, that gain from only earning a fraction of the honor to dezgra points (honor reduction).

The claim button would work wonders here, and as said before, you should only be able to claim one target at the rank of Mechwarrior (unless you are the only Mechwarrior of your faction on the field).

- You would reap most rewards by playing honorably, ganging up would be punished except when special criteria are met (having multiple lights fight a heavier Clan mech like the Ice Hellions do).
- A last second kill steal would give 1 dezgra point to the player who stole the kill. The pilot who claimed and fought the mech would still get 1 honorpoint.
- Ganging up on unclaimed targets will yield no honorpoints, it would be a waste of time to do so.
- Firing on a friendly target 3 or more times would generate 1 dezgra point, destroying a allied unit would give you 10 dezgra points.
- Selecting a lighter mech then your opponent could give a post mission honorpoint bonus, the same would go for fighting multiple opponents at higher ranks.
- A claimed target could attack a mech different from the one that claimed it, this mech is allowed to defend itself. The defending mech will gain 1 honorpoint if it does more then 50% damage to the attacker.
- Attacking a already claimed target will generate 1 dezgra point by default unless the claimed target already shot you once.
- A Clan mechwarrior can lose a claim if he or she moves out of maximum weapon range and LoS for 10 seconds (no running away allowed). This opens up the previously claimed target to other Clan players. It will also enable a Clan mech target a different foe if his opponent shot him once to try and lure him away.

There would also be a chart for things you can do with either honor or dezgra points, here's something I cooked up on the fly:

Honor points:
5: Unlock new mechs and equipment
10: Unlock trial of position
20: Unlock circle of equals option
40: Unlock hegira option
60: Field commendation to one higher rank if the trial of position wasn't passed or retry trial of position
80: Unlock new mechs and equipment
100: Unlock elite frontline missions
120: Unlock trial of position (max rank Star Captain rank)
140: Unlock new mechs and equipment
180: Bloodname trial
240: Unlock trial of position for Star Colonel rank (highest rank in the game, Galaxy Commander and above are NPC's).

Dezgra points:
5: Player gets flagged with dishonorable status visible to all other players
10: Tech reduction, player can only select 2nd line mechs
15: Reduction to garrison missions only, protect building from raiding IS units. Success will gain 1 honorpoint.
20: Tech reduction to SL era mechs (no Clan tech refits).
25: Solahma rating, player gets booted out of mission queues if more honorable players enter them
30: Tech reduction to IS salvage (this entirely eliminates the reason for munchkins/trolls for joining the Clans)

The lists still leave a lot to be desired, but it's a start of how I think it could work.

[Gremlich Johns]

CoffiNail, on 21 March 2012 - 05:56 AM, said:

Oh Come on Grem, you know if that gets started anywhere but one of the house threads, it will get tossed in here. We have had a few anti-Clans threads get tossed in here, with a response of 'Why is this in our pro-Clan section?' o.O

IceSerpent, on 21 March 2012 - 11:07 AM, said:

I think it's good to get that drivel tossed in here - makes it easier to add those surats to the list

I stand chastised, mates but I do so like Iceserpent's idea of having a list.....

[Slapshot]

IceSerpent, on 21 March 2012 - 11:07 AM, said:

I think it's good to get that drivel tossed in here - makes it easier to add those surats to the list

It is kind of funny you never really get clanners going into the house forums and calling them dezgra filth, but they come in here a lot it seems.

[SirDenOfYork]

Im sure the Dev's will handle maters and keep the game FUN for all ....

[Evan Pryde]

Aidan Pryde had a different style of fighting than the other clanners. It was initially looked down on but still got him into the gene pool. I do not think clanners should be limited to set tactics as in the Remembrance it acknowledges that any tactic is fair in war. 1v1 combat is just the clan ideal.