680 replies to this topic

[wiegxodus]

I want to explain why the grouping scheme is a bad idea.

Individual players don't give a game longevity. Since they play on their own, they don't have any sense of place in a larger in-game community - aside from the forums, which are always dominated by the loudest, most aggressive people in the playerbase. This means that they don't have a psychological investment, which is far, far more important than the small monetary investment represented by their one MC bought mech.

(This is the planned business model - selling time and allowing paying players to shortcut the grind. If you think 20-30 matches for a mech isn't a daunting grind, well, I don't really know what to say to you.)

What does give a game longevity is the friends a player makes in the game, and the sense of group membership that he or she develops with those friends. Instead of going out of your way to make it hard for large groups to fight any other format - and in the doing, preventing any group of size 5, 6, or 7 from forming - you should be focusing on making it easier for individual players to form groups. I don't know precisely how to go about this. Maybe players should be grouped before they even launch into a match. Maybe they should be able to send friend requests after a match. Maybe there should be a chat system for post- or pre- match discussion. They probably need a game-install level integrated voice chat that's set up for them by default. They definitely need a much more robust community system in place, and that should come sooner rather than later.

MWO, like most online games, will live or die on its metagame, not its regular game. The more obstacles and frustration you place in front of groups that strongly contribute to that metagame, the worse off you will be.

Make it easy to get invested.

Edited by wiegxodus, 12 October 2012 - 06:48 PM.

[Navid A1]

ok people... patch is up.

after a couple of matches... i can confirm that the lag issue seems to be solved.

testing other things...

well done pgi

[Scoots]

Good job there devs and wise decision! THIS is what many of us wanted to hear and also what this game needs.
Keep it up!

[mp5navy]

devs at PGI, thank you. this is what games are about. listening to the players especially in this time period of close beta testing. definitely appreciate it. very pleasant email. keep it going!

i wasnt going to spend money on this but i think i will buy founders package now.

[Ammoguy]

I love everything about the patch except the grouping change.

I have played with my Guild Brothers for decades... we like to get together and have a good time. Win, Lose or draw.
We don't build our team to steamroll over PUGs, although that is sometimes the outcome. We build our team to have a good time playing together. Sadly we usually only have between 4 and 6 players on at any given time so NOW we are basically screwed as far as playing together is concerned. I understand you want to level the playing field somewhat with regards to pre-mades vs PUGs but guess what? War is hell!
If you want to level the field then have the game match pre-made vs pre-made regardless of group size and fill the gaps with PUG players.
Don't punish those who want to drop with friends but don't fit nicely into your little grouping niche.

[Nordhammer]

Sigh so many ppl not actually reading what the lead designer of this game has taken the time(another thing ppl been crying about)to spell out in clear detail.The 4 man group is only the first step/phase soon to be followed by 8 man groups,shall I rant at those that seem to read 4 man and seem to think that is the be all end all of MWO's pvp??Serious reel it in read in full the overall plan and again with the understanding crap happens on live crap gets changed/pushed/removed so enough with the taking my ball an going home posts.

Edited by Nordhammer, 12 October 2012 - 07:02 PM.

[Jetfire]

Great News! I think that was 100% what I wanted to hear, though I had kinda become excited about the idea of open beta, but I'm good waiting a few more weeks.

[Supraluminal]

wiegxodus, on 12 October 2012 - 06:47 PM, said:

I want to explain why the grouping scheme is a bad idea.

Individual players don't give a game longevity. Since they play on their own, they don't have any sense of place in a larger in-game community - aside from the forums, which are always dominated by the loudest, most aggressive people in the playerbase. This means that they don't have a psychological investment, which is far, far more important than the small monetary investment represented by their one MC bought mech.

(This is the planned business model - selling time and allowing paying players to shortcut the grind. If you think 20-30 matches for a mech isn't a daunting grind, well, I don't really know what to say to you.)

What does give a game longevity is the friends a player makes in the game, and the sense of group membership that he or she develops with those friends. Instead of going out of your way to make it hard for large groups to fight any other format - and in the doing, preventing any group of size 5, 6, or 7 from forming - you should be focusing on making it easier for individual players to form groups. I don't know precisely how to go about this. Maybe players should be grouped before they even launch into a match. Maybe they should be able to send friend requests after a match. Maybe there should be a chat system for post- or pre- match discussion. They probably need a game-install level integrated voice chat that's set up for them by default. They definitely need a much more robust community system in place, and that should come sooner rather than later.

MWO, like most online games, will live or die on its metagame, not its regular game. The more obstacles and frustration you place in front of groups that strongly contribute to that metagame, the worse off you will be.

Make it easy to get invested.

I actually think the proposed matchmaking scheme is a pretty good compromise, but I agree with your general point that it should be as easy and rewarding as possible for new/solo players to get involved with group play in some form. Even if that's just making the whole team into a de facto group with some good tools for coordinating (though it's optimistic to imagine this working out nearly as well as a "real" premade group).

Obviously in an ideal world there would be some magical system that accommodated any size group at all, and solo players, and put together teams in a way that made absolutely everyone happy... but until PGI can figure out what that system is, I feel like this is a good middle ground.

[Isingdeath]

Ammoguy, on 12 October 2012 - 06:56 PM, said:

I love everything about the patch except the grouping change.

I have played with my Guild Brothers for decades... we like to get together and have a good time. Win, Lose or draw.
We don't build our team to steamroll over PUGs, although that is sometimes the outcome. We build our team to have a good time playing together. Sadly we usually only have between 4 and 6 players on at any given time so NOW we are basically screwed as far as playing together is concerned. I understand you want to level the playing field somewhat with regards to pre-mades vs PUGs but guess what? War is hell!
If you want to level the field then have the game match pre-made vs pre-made regardless of group size and fill the gaps with PUG players.
Don't punish those who want to drop with friends but don't fit nicely into your little grouping niche.

Again they said that phase 1 is a short phase. I think the exact idea was as short as it could be to get some problems resolved so they could resolve this issue. So obviously they need to code it so they can distinguish pug from group and phase one is a stop gap that will be short lived.

[Scorm]

wiegxodus, on 12 October 2012 - 06:47 PM, said:

I want to explain why the grouping scheme is a bad idea.

Individual players don't give a game longevity. Since they play on their own, they don't have any sense of place in a larger in-game community - aside from the forums, which are always dominated by the loudest, most aggressive people in the playerbase. This means that they don't have a psychological investment, which is far, far more important than the small monetary investment represented by their one MC bought mech.

(This is the planned business model - selling time and allowing paying players to shortcut the grind. If you think 20-30 matches for a mech isn't a daunting grind, well, I don't really know what to say to you.)

What does give a game longevity is the friends a player makes in the game, and the sense of group membership that he or she develops with those friends. Instead of going out of your way to make it hard for large groups to fight any other format - and in the doing, preventing any group of size 5, 6, or 7 from forming - you should be focusing on making it easier for individual players to form groups. I don't know precisely how to go about this. Maybe players should be grouped before they even launch into a match. Maybe they should be able to send friend requests after a match. Maybe there should be a chat system for post- or pre- match discussion. They probably need a game-install level integrated voice chat that's set up for them by default. They definitely need a much more robust community system in place, and that should come sooner rather than later.

MWO, like most online games, will live or die on its metagame, not its regular game. The more obstacles and frustration you place in front of groups that strongly contribute to that metagame, the worse off you will be.

Make it easy to get invested.

The player needs something to get invested to. Running into 8 man premades in your trial mech will NOT make a good first impression on the randoms that decide to give the game a try. And no, the new guy that just downloaded the game shouldn't be expected to already be part of a gaming community and/or have a group to play with.

[LordSkippy]

First, great news all around! I actually felt the game was more ready for open beta before the game engine update on the 9th. Pushing the date back was the right move.

A question about:

Paul Inouye, on 12 October 2012 - 05:29 PM, said:

...so we can get this into the hands of internal/early beta tester’s hands so we can launch the feature in the future.

You mentioned WOW earlier when making a comparison about merging groups into raids for phase two of matchmaking. After open beta, will there be an option for an "early beta" server, analogous to WOW's test server? A server where premium users are able to access the next release candidate before it is pushed to the live servers?

[romrahp]

Scorm, on 12 October 2012 - 07:00 PM, said:

The player needs something to get invested to. Running into 8 man premades in your trial mech will NOT make a good first impression on the randoms that decide to give the game a try. And no, the new guy that just downloaded the game shouldn't be expected to already be part of a gaming community and/or have a group to play with.

LOL, what happened to the good ole days when you played a game to get better at it.. Oh, wait.. I forgot everyone starting handing out throphies to all the kids to make them feel good about themselves because no one can ever get rolled. Seems working hard and long at something is a thing of the past..

[Beorning]

Gristle, on 12 October 2012 - 06:16 PM, said:

I don't give a rats *** about PUGS or competitive play. I play this game to play with my friends. This makes the game not worth my time.

I'm done with this game.

Can anyone tell me how I go about requesting a refund of my Founders purchase and get taken off the mailing list?

Well it is not too difficult, even I managed it. I just re-purchased my founder's though. Not because of the stellar ideas of late, as the list of things that irritate me has grown, but for all that I do get the feeling the main goal of the devs (not the bean counters) is to make a great game.

You raise a valid point, perhaps though, there is a reasonable alternative - this is a proposed and temporary measure so a bit of faith, hope or well thought out method might be a more useful.

So the problem is, besides 8 man teams, groups of 5 to 7. Hey, I'm with ya, it is daft to exclude these groups, as I am sure the only draw right now for some people is playing with a group of people they know.

Sarge came up with a better idea the other night, and it went something like this:
-group of 4 or less, you go to the random pool.
-group of 5 or more, you go to the vs other groups pool.
fill in the blanks with randoms - I would like to modify this, with randoms in NON trial mechs, even though some of them are deadly in the right hands, and a lot of custom loadouts (especially mine) are downright useless.

Given the choice, I would wager that any group of 5-7 would rather fill in with Joe Random and take their chances rather then not play together as a group at all.

ELO - ya, I turned to stone when I heard this.

[Scorm]

romrahp, on 12 October 2012 - 07:07 PM, said:

LOL, what happened to the good ole days when you played a game to get better at it.. Oh, wait.. I forgot everyone starting handing out throphies to all the kids to make them feel good about themselves because no one can ever get rolled. Seems working hard and long at something is a thing of the past..

Some still do. I pug right now and couldn't give a rats *** personally when a premade drops on the other team. This is a bushiness decision. How much money do they make from the guy that quits after hitting a few premades before even learning the ropes?
*edited for clarity

Edited by Scorm, 12 October 2012 - 07:12 PM.

[themoob]

Yeah only thing I don't like about this is no support for groups of 5-7 people. I'm fine with everything else really.

[GhostBexar]

Thank you for listening and addressing our concerns. My faith is restored.

[Omdra]

thank you for this update

[JARLPAIN]

Great real great finally thank guys you rockzs

[Sir Roland MXIII]

themoob, on 12 October 2012 - 07:13 PM, said:

Yeah only thing I don't like about this is no support for groups of 5-7 people. I'm fine with everything else really.

Another page, so I'll just remind those who aren't reading the entire OP to post YARAP1 (Yet Another Rant About Phase 1).


As the OP said Phase One will be swiftly followed by Phase Two. The pain of Phase One will pass quickly. Capiche?

Edited by Sir Roland MXIII, 12 October 2012 - 07:16 PM.

[Blackfire1]

I F[REDACTED]ING LOVE THIS GAME COMPANY!