254 replies to this topic

[ChaosGrinder]

Hpgs can´t drive. Hpgs are VITAL . They are the ONLY FTL-communication device besides pony express. And the risk of breaking the net via bombing or virus is EXTREME . NOOOO, you wouldn´t want a chance to replace your most vital organ in case of faliure, what strategic bullsh*t >_< Sry, but there is like no sense for me

Stoner boy. XD Ahgahd, that nearly killed me

[G is for Gamma]

Another thing to consider is that HPG parts (in the IS at least) are only made on Terra. Comstar, then Wob, then Comstar again have held a monopoly on the single production line since the fall of the Star League. Add in that Wob is till alive and well in the ranks of Comstar according to Darkage Fluff. I'm fairly sure that getting a hold of "spare parts" was slow rolled as much as possible.

[dal10]

How long does the dark age even last? aka, what is the last event currently in BT lore.

edit: I found out. the last event currently in BT lore is 3143. 11 years after the blackout started. At this point at least 100 or so more worlds should have had their HPGs online. if not more.

Edited by dal10, 14 October 2012 - 11:46 AM.

[G is for Gamma]

3139. Operation Homecoming. Is the last peice of lore written about as far as I know. Unless you want 3550, which is when the "Voice of Krenensky" will reach the outer limits of the Innersphere

[ChaosGrinder]

i think we´re still in the dark age Ö_ô

Btw: which setting now ? Any new additions ? Ideas ?

[dal10]

Bonfire of Worlds is the last bit of BT Lore atm. set in 3143. It deals with the reunification of the FWL.

I like the stuck on a Nitrogen-Hydrogen Atmosphere rock idea. But can we make the planet have a high ferro-content so magres is useless?

[G is for Gamma]

We're talking about the same thing but from two different ends dal. Operation Homecoming was the start of the war to reunify the FWL

edit: but we're really getting away from the original intent of the thread. It looks like CG has got a decent amount of people interested in her idea of a Dark Age Era RP set on a really rough planet. Can't wait to see what you all do with it.

Edited by Gammadin, 14 October 2012 - 11:53 AM.

[dal10]

Makes sense. but I think we have talked the HPG part to death now... I am of the opinion that we should stop beating a dead horse.

[ChaosGrinder]

We can have that dal. That´s why the sand is red

[RogueSpear]

I thought WoB died in the *****?
Additionally, doesn't Stoner boy's Republic control Terra now?
And since when would the clans give two sh*ts? They have the knowledge, resources, and ability.
It's a crusader's wet dream. They can go where they want, when they want, and no one can stop them.
Two years of preparation we'll say. We'll assume each clan has one facility that can provide new ground HPGs and one mobile for starships. The former line can produce one per year, the second, due building more than one Warship per year can build two.
Now, running those lines at increased speed will produce 3 ground HPGs and 6 starship mobile HPGs in 2 years.
However we spend the first year quadrupling the production lines on those facilities, and in the second year run those at max capacity (And I'm being generous on how much time it would take to do this, honestly, with a sufficiently large workforce, I'd say 6 months at the outside for this stuff but anyway) which means we have 8 (And a bit) HPGs and 12 starship mobile HPGs at the end of the two year period.
Now we'll say that we've not increased naval production, despite being able to raid the IS at will for additional resources if we don't have enough ourselves. So we hire naval stars from the Snow Ravens.
Assuming we use the Clan Jade Falcon for this example, we suddenly flood the CJF IS holding's borders with Warships. CSR vessels will man the border worlds within 30 LY of where the Sphere can jump in - our allies in the clans shall be bought off. We've shared our master plan with them and they're invading the FRR and DC, we don't need to watch the clan side. CSR garrisons our worlds, why should we have to share the glory of conquest?
But the four naval stars we've hired from the Ravens will not be enough. So in addition to warships, we bring in our Jumpships. Pony express to a waiting Naval unit that can deploy anywhere within 60 LY is enough to defend our border - just. Assuming 2 warship teams with support, any but the most determined attack can be met and destroyed swiftly. A broad front offensive seems unlikely given that our opponents cannot communicate effectively, this strung out garrison should be fine. We now have a mobile response force, and a combined Pony Express/HPG network that can ensure the safety of our border.
So we go on the attack. Taking worlds every ~30 LY lets us break into the Isle of Skye very swiftly. As in, Port Moseby is within 60 LY of the furthest point in the CJF occupation zone, and that's based on the original clan invasion, not later maps where I believe they're closer.
TL, DR, there is very little reason why the clans don't simply wipe the IS. With the additional mobile HPGs, CJF can slap those onto jumpships and leave them in orbit wherever they need them. It'd literally be childs play for them to set up a linked HPG network where using Pony Express their IS holdings, including new conquers can report any goings on of note and get a response inside of six hours...from the Homeworlds.

And yes, I saw Dal's post...but I spent ages typing this out so dammit, I'm posting.

Edited by RogueSpear, 14 October 2012 - 12:04 PM.

[G is for Gamma]

The organization "Word of Blake" is dead, the religion "word of blake" is still alive, and controlling comstar from behind the scenes or so says one of the newer novels.

I think the issue is we're all trying to apply logic to battletech, which has always been written more as a Soap Opera (space opera?) with giant robot machines, than as a really grounded in reality science fiction.

[ChaosGrinder]

The thing is : I like logic stories. Things as obvious as this is just *Picardfacepalm*

[RogueSpear]

Oh I know BT is a Space Opera, which I'm cool with. When it breaks down to just ignoring all the fluff they've set up just to spring a cheap gimmick...I complain.
I'd actually have had less complaints if they threw aliens or zombie plague at us instead of Dark Age.
And that's saying something.

[ChaosGrinder]

I think .... this is all getting a bit out of hand with the topic

So if i see that right the Icy-frosty-suffocating Marsclone will do ?
Any further additions from your side ?

[dal10]

I got nothing that is not ridiculous. But can you guys give your opinion on a pair of tanks I made for this? I am wondering which one i should use.


Shin-Sang Assault Tank SSA-1A

Mass: 90 tons
Tech Base: Inner Sphere
Motive Type: Tracked
Rules Level: Advanced Rules
Era: Dark Ages
Tech Rating/Era Availability: E/X-X-F
Production Year: 3132
Cost: 18,691,813 C-Bills
Battle Value: 1,572

Power Plant: 270 Fusion XL Engine
Cruise Speed: 32.4 km/h
Flanking Speed: 54.0 km/h
Armor: StarSlab Ferro-Fibrous
Armament:
2 Snub-Nose PPCs
2 SRM-6s
2 Rocket Launcher 20s
Manufacturer: Aldis Industries
Primary Factory: Betelguese
Communications System: Bisax 200
Targeting and Tracking System: Blindfire

================================================================================
Equipment Type Rating Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Standard 45 points 9.00
Engine: XL Fusion Engine 270 11.50
Cruise MP: 3
Flank MP: 5
Heat Sinks: Single Heat Sink 20 10.00
Control Equipment: 4.50
Lift Equipment: 0.00
Turret: 2.50
Armor: Ferro-Fibrous AV - 312 17.50

Armor
Factor
Front 80
Left/Right 62/62
Turret 66
Rear 42

================================================================================
Equipment Location Heat Spaces Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2 Snub-Nose PPCs T 20 2 12.00
2 Rocket Launcher 20s T 10 2 3.00
2 SRM-6s T 8 2 6.00
@SRM-6 (30) BD - 0 2.00

BattleForce Statistics
MV S (+0) M (+2) L (+4) E (+6) Wt. Ov Armor: 10 Points: 16
3 2 2 0 0 4 0 Structure: 4
Special Abilities: SRM 1/1/0

The other one now


Avenger Assault Tank AAT-1C

Mass: 100 tons
Tech Base: Clan
Motive Type: Tracked
Rules Level: Advanced Rules
Era: Dark Ages
Tech Rating/Era Availability: X/X-X-X
Production Year: 0
Cost: 24,831,500 C-Bills
Battle Value: 2,523

Power Plant: 300 Fusion XL Engine
Cruise Speed: 32.4 km/h
Flanking Speed: 54.0 km/h
Armor: Ferro-Fibrous
Armament:
2 Gauss Rifles
2 ER Medium Lasers
1 Anti-Missile System
1 Unknown CASE
Manufacturer:
Primary Factory:
Communications System:
Targeting and Tracking System:

================================================================================
Equipment Type Rating Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Standard 60 points 10.00
Engine: XL Fusion Engine 300 14.50
Cruise MP: 3
Flank MP: 5
Heat Sinks: Single Heat Sink 10 0.00
Control Equipment: 5.00
Lift Equipment: 0.00
Turret: 3.00
Rear Turret: 0.00
Armor: Ferro-Fibrous AV - 384 20.00

Armor
Factor
Front 94
Left/Right 74/74
Turret 87
Rear 55
Rear Turret 0

================================================================================
Equipment Location Heat Spaces Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2 ER Medium Lasers T 10 2 2.00
Anti-Missile System T 1 1 0.50
2 Gauss Rifles T 2 2 24.00
CASE BD - 0 0.00
@Anti-Missile System (48) BD - 0 2.00
@Gauss Rifle (56) BD - 0 7.00

BattleForce Statistics
MV S (+0) M (+2) L (+4) E (+6) Wt. Ov Armor: 13 Points: 25
3 4 5 3 0 4 0 Structure: 6
Special Abilities: AMS, CASE

so which one do you guys think I should use if we do this?

Edited by dal10, 14 October 2012 - 12:25 PM.

[ChaosGrinder]

Uh, don´t bash me with TT stuff
I am not skilled enough to judge this by TT mesurements, i say, is it too heavy ? Too much armor ? Too big guns ? Too much special equip ?

But based on those facts ... i´ll need to see the judgement of the rest of you guys D: *Crawlsaway*

[RogueSpear]

Neither. And I say this purely as a guy who spends way too much time looking at tanks.
The Shin Sang is a great short range design with no speed. You'd get ripped to shreds on the way in in any assault - but it would be vicious in an urban environment at fighting mechs and vehicles. The RLs seem entirely superfluous.
The Avenger would ruin an enemy mech/vehicle at range, but would be easily overrun up close.
The Avenger in particular reminds me of the German Pz VIII Maus, so to quote Heinz Guderian:

Quote

The model didn't have a single machine gun for close combat, and for this reason I had to reject it. It had the same design flaw that made the Elefant unsuitable for close combat. In the end, the tank will inevitably have to wage a close combat since it operates in cooperation with the infantry. An intense debate started, and except for me, all of the present found the "Maus" magnificent. It was promising to be exactly that, a "giant".

You need something that can kill infantry. Your tanks would be ravaged by a determined infantry attack or even air assault. Leaving aside the air issue, for the Shin Sang, I'd drop the RLs and replace them with 4 machine guns, one on each corner, with a tonne of ammo. If it's an urban combat, defence unit, it should still be perfectly fine. If it's not designed solely for close combat, defence missions, swap the Snub nose for ER PPCs. Gives you punch at range and your SRM 6s still discourage enemies from closing in.

The Avenger is tougher. For a 100t design, I cannot figure out what takes up so much weight that it only mounts 26.5t of weaponry and 9t of reloads. For ranged mech/armour kills, it probably works just fine, but you don't have the speed to set the engagement range or the weaponry to deter the enemy from closing. How good a design it is is going to entirely depend on what it's paired with.

Also, if we're on this space station...where are we using tanks and what are we fighting?

Edited by RogueSpear, 14 October 2012 - 12:38 PM.

[dal10]

sorry... I just like using the solaris armor werks......................

10 tons on the avenger, and 9 tons on the Shin-Sheng is taken up by enviromental sealing, which weighs 1/10th of the tanks weight. However I do not know any canon designs that come with it, so I had to make my own.

edit: we are on a research station on a non-hospitable planet. AKA, no non-BA infantry, and no unsealed tanks.

Edited by dal10, 14 October 2012 - 12:40 PM.

[G is for Gamma]

Don't add a billion dots to things. Makes you look like a sad teenager on chat roulette.........

Rogue's advice is pretty good though. I think you've got two pretty mean weapon platforms right there, but you may want to think about what he said. Or not. Its whateves

[ChaosGrinder]

@ Rogue: we´re on the planet, starting in a sealed station, which we have to get up and running again before we run out of air.

....................... maybe he is one ............ /jk ;D

You NEED at least air supply and insulation or you´ll either suffocate or freeze to death if it´s colder than -12-15° At daytime you can go outside in the sun with just normal clothing and a breathing bask, but at night ~ it´s cold

I think they are both quite strong, dunno. I may be piloting an Omen, so ... :S Dunno.

Edited by ChaosGrinder, 14 October 2012 - 12:47 PM.