1258 replies to this topic

[aglarang]

Amarus Cameron, on 03 November 2011 - 04:39 AM, said:

Dude you are like a walking talking oxymoron...I like that you likes us but seriously?

Ok let me break this down, your sig says you are part of the Comstar Guards...COMSTAR....as in the guys who stopped us, as in the group that is around pretty much to KILL clanners.
Second, Wolves, ok by itself that is fine, you like the Wolves, but then you like the Smoke Jaguars second? On what grounds? Our faction logo? (which btw is clearly the best) I mean as for ideology you could not be any further apart!

All you factions make no sense, I am all blown up in my head trying to understand what you said...not mad, just so confused I sound like I am...this is for you because I cannot understand, and I am so beside myself...

I find this post hilarious. Cameron is calling out someone who said they would prefer the bears in a topic titled 'Which Invading Clan would you join."
1) It specifies which clan, not which unit in general. So, from a pure game perspective he is just naming his clanner preference regardless of his unit preference indicated by his comstar banner (with a vulture?).
2) He accuses this guy's post of being an oxymoron who you cannot take seriously. Yet we are to take Cameron seriously? Ok, let us point out that there is no Cameron Blood name in the clans, and two how can you take a surname as a clan warrior without winning it as a Bloodname (of which Cameron is not one.)
3) Aramis killed all the Camerons in the Royal line. Probably some other Camerons out there. But to assume the name in this universe only ties back to House Cameron of the Star League.
4) Is you survived Operations Bulldog and Serpent as your signature states you are not longer of Clan Smoke Kitty anyway, because it does not exist anymore.

Normally I don't care if people on forums want to be the next Kerensky (Nicholas, Natasha, Aleksandr, Ranna, Ulric, etc.) Pryde (Aiden, Marthe). Kell. etc. Or if they want to be a Star Colonel, Colonel, Khan, General whatever. But if you want to call out this guy for preferring the clan you like while he has a Comstar banner, yet you don't play by the same rules and bend them to create your own mythos that breaks the rules of Battletech canon. Well, that is a little hypocritical don't you think?

On topic, if I had to choose a clan, it would be Diamond Shark/Sea Fox, Ghost Bear, or Nova Cat because those three seem to be the ones who I think ultimately fulfilled Kerensky's (Aleksandr's) legacy as I read it.

Edited by aglarang, 04 November 2011 - 06:10 AM.

[Jaroth Corbett]

Aaron DeChavilier, on 03 November 2011 - 11:21 AM, said:

by destroying clan wolverine, the clans renounced any rights they had to calling themselves the descendants of the Star League, the entire existence of a eugenics based, autocratic, war mongering culture would be an affront to any Cameron, or Eridani Light Horseman. I will see you stravags and trashborn on the fields of Luthien, Wolcott, Twycross, and of course Tukkayyid where your hubris shall be laid bare. ( )

What????????????????? ROFLMAO How did we renounce our rights exactly? Please explain. Wait, start up in 5 minutes. Let me get some popcorn & a beverage.

[Stormwolf]

Come on people, let's be nice here.

[Aaron DeChavilier]

Jaroth Winson, on 04 November 2011 - 06:14 AM, said:

What????????????????? ROFLMAO How did we renounce our rights exactly? Please explain. Wait, start up in 5 minutes. Let me get some popcorn & a beverage.

go read your history, stravag, the Star League was a government based loosely on a parliamentary monarchy. the Cameron's had final say, but listened to advisors, house lords, etc. House Lords are beholden to their people. Conflict was resolved through negotiation and officiation. Yes there were covert wars, the reunification war (which was very bad) and conflict did not vanish. However, the SLDF kept the peace, was made up from anyone who joined, and placed merit on skill and tenacity...not breeding.

Nicholas Kerensky created a locked down, autocracy called the 'clans' where power is held in the hands of a select few chosen by eugenics. Only 'trueborn' can achieve the highest military ranks, unlike house and old SLDF doctrine. in fact, there are many pages of lore demonstrating nicholas' desire to do away with the 'old system.'

Ergo, the clans are not Star League, and never could reinstate the Star League themselves, for what the Star League actually was, is now completely alien to their culture and identity. Their revered great father, Aleksandr (or sometimes nicholas) were 'freeborns' for *** sakes, how do they reconcile that? what made these lowly freeborns so special?

I wish I could keep going, but not in a post like this, perhaps at some point I'll write an in-depth analysis of the hypocrisy of clan-dom ^^_

[Jaroth Corbett]

Aaron DeChavilier, on 04 November 2011 - 09:51 AM, said:

go read your history, stravag, the Star League was a government based loosely on a parliamentary monarchy. the Cameron's had final say, but listened to advisors, house lords, etc. House Lords are beholden to their people. Conflict was resolved through negotiation and officiation. Yes there were covert wars, the reunification war (which was very bad) and conflict did not vanish. However, the SLDF kept the peace, was made up from anyone who joined, and placed merit on skill and tenacity...not breeding.

Nicholas Kerensky created a locked down, autocracy called the 'clans' where power is held in the hands of a select few chosen by eugenics. Only 'trueborn' can achieve the highest military ranks, unlike house and old SLDF doctrine. in fact, there are many pages of lore demonstrating nicholas' desire to do away with the 'old system.'

Ergo, the clans are not Star League, and never could reinstate the Star League themselves, for what the Star League actually was, is now completely alien to their culture and identity. Their revered great father, Aleksandr (or sometimes nicholas) were 'freeborns' for *** sakes, how do they reconcile that? what made these lowly freeborns so special?

I wish I could keep going, but not in a post like this, perhaps at some point I'll write an in-depth analysis of the hypocrisy of clan-dom ^^_

Oh I know my history surat which is why I know what you actually thought up, typed out & posted, is absolute nonsense.

I cannot believe you actually took the bait. "Give them enough rope & they will hang themselves."

The ilKhan listens to the Grand Council & even though he/she has the final say on a lot of matters, it is not for all. In fact the Grand Council can stop an ilKhan's actions. A Loremaster has the authority to investigate his/her own Khan. In fact ilKhan Tobias Katib was impeached & executed. Who is going to impeach & execute Takashi Kurita or Hanse Davion? You want to talk about a locked down, autocratic system? Think before you type.

While the clans flourished in a NEW way of life (yeah read that again NEW as in they are now learning to function with these new rules, policies etc.) was the Star League reborn? NO IT WAS NOT! You all did not come together to usher in a new age. Nobody said, "Wow we were so screwed up, we made the greatest general of our time, LEAVE. He's gone & he took a lot of our population with him. Perhaps we should reflect on how we have lived our lives & try to come together & prosper." NO IT DID NOT HAPPEN. You decimated each other in the Succession Wars. Think before you type.

How is it that two groups of people starting out with the same level of technology could grow so far apart? One has a built in system while the other is brand new. The Clans invented, engineered & developed all sorts of technology starting from Star League era tech but their goal was to build a brand new society while your diseased minds plunged you into years of Succession Wars.

Human beings are not rabbits. Even though people were having coitus as usual, Nicholas knew that it would never yield enough children to maintain a society. We thank the Founder for his long term vision & creating the eugenics program. During this time what were your people thinking of again? Oh that's right. The Succession Wars. Let's see how much of the Inner Sphere we can destroy in the name of this Lord or that Lord. Each clan is different & freeborns have the chance to reach far based on their actions depending on the Clan of course. You cannot whine about that because each Successor State acts on its own accord. Of course Nicholas wanted to do away with the old system; it was diseased. In the Clans you do not get far based on how long you served or who your parents were or who you bribed. You have to EARN your spot, then you have to FIGHT to keep it. You are judged by your deeds. There is no bureaucracy & no nepotism. Think before you type.

Notice it was never said we are going to bring back the Star League. We want nothing to do with that archaic, diseased body. We pledged to reform the Star League. Think before you type.

1.
improvement or amendment of what is wrong, corrupt, etc.: social reform; reform.

verb (used with object)
4.
to change to a better state, form, etc.; improve by alteration, substitution, abolition, etc.


I eagerly await your in-depth analysis of the hypocrisy of clan-dom.

Edited by Jaroth Winson, 04 November 2011 - 11:28 AM.

[Aaron DeChavilier]

I take exception to being told to 'think before I type' it is quite condescending and childish; I will compile a response in due time, as I typed my previous response I knew it was all over the place seeing as how a post is not the place for such an expose. I'll break it up into two pieces, one the clans as they play out in actual written lore of the game (aka not what most players expect) and then two, an out of game analysis of the clans as written faction and plot device. all will be zipped up in a word doc, expect it later.

I love a good debate, but let us hope you can avoid more of the 'you're dumb' and 'here's a definition of words' junk.

also if you read my previous post; the hypocrisy lay in the clans believing that they are taking over to reinstate the Star League, nowhere do they talk about reform in the sense of progress. They claim to take over and reform the Star League; reform in the context of 'remaking an existing thing'

Edited by Aaron DeChavilier, 04 November 2011 - 11:34 AM.

[Jaroth Corbett]

I take exception to being told to read my history, when I have & the other party has not; to have arguments made to a point that is nonsensical especially when I can provide proof from canon to support my arguments & the other party cannot.

I love a good debate so try to provide one.

The other party's feelings are irrelevant, I stated facts according to canon.

Loremaster able to take action against a Khan - Field Manual - Crusader Clans Pg.161

ilKhan impeached & executed - The Clans - Warriors of Kerensky Pg.31

ilKhan's powers not absolute - The Clans - Warriors of Keresnky Pg.54

Clans develop themselves while the Great Houses do not - Battletech - Era Digest - Golden Century Pg.6

I never stated that the other party is nonsensical but rather the argument, the other party tried to present, was. I have not made any sexist, religious, racist or obscene remarks. Think before you type is not an insult, it is advice. I have no problem withholding advice from the other party in the future. My argument line is based on fact & logic. If the other party is offended by that or it makes aforementioned party sad & blue that is not my concern. Present your case.

Edited by Jaroth Winson, 04 November 2011 - 12:29 PM.

[Paladyne]

*is laughing uncontrollably at the two going at it*

You guys are funny! Firstly, I knew it was a matter of time before this came up, secondly you two do not yet have a game here to settle this in clan fashion, thirdly, since it is a wlverine you are denegrating yourself merely by talking to him.

So if you two wish to continue please find a thread so we can track the debate properly as this is hilarious with both of you.

But this thread is about which Clan you would join, not who has the most BT lore or political wanderings. take it to it's own thread and please do not hijack this one.

[flessar]

Paladyne, on 04 November 2011 - 01:55 PM, said:

*is laughing uncontrollably at the two going at it*

You guys are funny! Firstly, I knew it was a matter of time before this came up, secondly you two do not yet have a game here to settle this in clan fashion, thirdly, since it is a wlverine you are denegrating yourself merely by talking to him.

So if you two wish to continue please find a thread so we can track the debate properly as this is hilarious with both of you.

But this thread is about which Clan you would join, not who has the most BT lore or political wanderings. take it to it's own thread and please do not hijack this one.

Doesnt matter where they take it, all vatborns and their lakey's shall die in brutal merciless fashion. Your sterile wars are things of the past, welcome to the Inner Sphere, welcome to Total War.

[Stormwolf]

flessar, on 04 November 2011 - 02:05 PM, said:

Doesnt matter where they take it, all vatborns and their lakey's shall die in brutal merciless fashion. Your sterile wars are things of the past, welcome to the Inner Sphere, welcome to Total War.

Pfft, you Inner Sphere barbarians would all be dominated by Word of Blake without our intervention.
Can you picture the DC retaking Luthien by itself? I think not, the Ghost Bears moved in and crushed them while the Kurita leadership were wetting themselves.

Edited by stormwolf, 04 November 2011 - 02:14 PM.

[Caterwaul]

*glances at sig* I think it's rather obvious, huh?

Clan Nova Cat, because our catgirls are cuter.
And we actually use tactics beyond 'scream and leap' unlike a certain OTHER feline Clan.

[Jack Gallows]

Caterwaul, on 04 November 2011 - 02:19 PM, said:

And we actually use tactics beyond 'scream and leap' unlike a certain OTHER feline Clan.

Clan House Cat?

stormwolf, on 04 November 2011 - 02:13 PM, said:

Pfft, you Inner Sphere barbarians would all be dominated by Word of Blake without our intervention.

Who banded together to wipe out one of your Crusader clans?

If I did join a Clan, it'd be Ghost Bear.

[guardian wolf]

Definitely Join Clan Wolf, and then maybe Wolf's Dragoons, If we have to split then I will follow the wardens in exile, unless I am ordered by my khan to fight to the last, then I will slaughter as many falcons as I can get my hands on

[IS Wolf]

Jack Gallows, on 04 November 2011 - 02:44 PM, said:

Who banded together to wipe out one of your Crusader clans?

Uhm.. Both us Wolves and the Nova Cats had a hand in seeing that the Smoked Kitties got smoked.
And the Nova Cats also had a hand in the Great Refusal, so a little bit more respect for them would be nice.

Even if they imbibe even more peyote than the Coyotes do, they know how to fight.

[Aaron DeChavilier]

I am no clanner, so I would be unable to settle it in said manner, second I agree with the hijacking, hence why my initial post was as brief as possible (errata aside). Thirdly; glad I can entertain! ^^_

[Venkman]

Whichever one managed to drag me kicking and screaming from the wreckage of my 'mech, I guess.

[Mad Axe]

Ghost Bear. Reading the CBT source material and novels, they were the Clan that I felt most resonated with my personality and preferred style of game play.

[torgian]

Aaron DeChavilier, on 04 November 2011 - 11:33 AM, said:

I'll break it up into two pieces

Freebirth! You used a contraction!

Hehe.

you two have an interesting debate at least. Once the game comes out you need to call a Trial of Grievience or something.

[Bear Shaman]

Ghost Bear, natch -- I'm a sucker for the Kodiak. Still, for the time being, hands off my 'mech, ya dirty clanners!

[Aaron DeChavilier]

torgian, on 04 November 2011 - 07:05 PM, said:

Freebirth! You used a contraction!

Hehe.

you two have an interesting debate at least. Once the game comes out you need to call a Trial of Grievience or something.

freebirth and proud of it! nowhere did I say I was a clanner, in fact, my initail charge of clans being anti-Star League should have been a dead ringer for my allegiances..