108 replies to this topic

[palebear]

I'm not sure why, but after reading the OP I was overwhelmed by the thought of 12 v 12 battles full of half-armoured Jenners charging each other... lol

[Howlin Wolf]

Devs want people to play. I'm sure they will make it possible to keep all players in the game. That is a f2p game i think. They want as many folks as possible to buy something.

There will be a learning curve for me in the beginning. I wont be spending real money to repair a mech for sure. I will support a game with real money that brings me enjoyment.

About WoT pub matches. The way the game used to make funds was good until They broke it with crappy MMs and now 7.3 incoming very soon. I really dont like talking about other games but since others have brought it up i had to say it. Do NOT use WoT's form of income making unless the objective is to alienate a portion from MWO. Making the big mechs lose money is fine if there are still the lesser ones that can earn C-bills. IF there will be cash cows make MM so lesser mechs arent fighting them 24/7 unless they can actually do decent damage against them. I am purposely not getting into a long iteration on this subject.

Its my opinion on the subject.

Edited by Howlin Wolf, 24 March 2012 - 08:04 AM.

[Gammera]

Lolz i'm the guy in a mech that actually finds the only anti-mech mine on the 1000sq mile play area!
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[Siilk]

Prosperity Park, on 23 March 2012 - 08:06 AM, said:

"If we have players who lose frequently and early in their matches, then how can they repair their Mechs and keep playing the game?"

Ok, here's some ideas. Firstly, as MWO is free to play and it would be always possible to create a new account and get the starting mech/cbills, something on the similar scale should be available to the owner of a beaten-up mech with no cbills to repair mech above "minimal functioning condition" to make him interested in playing without abandoning "unlucky" account. So, as simply giving new mechs for free is completely wrong, I came to think that the best solution here would be to give player an option to take a less profitable contract with mech provided by a contractor. Player would be provided with a non-customized second-hand mech(maybe a couple of mechs to choose from), with it's value being closer to the starting mechs and maybe slightly increasing depending on the overall player experience level. Said mech would be a player's disposal for one mission; no customization, except for weapon grouping would be possible. Mech could have some levels of damage(remember MW1's mech market?) but it would reflect on it's value. So, a somehow experienced player could expect to see a brand-new Jenner, a slightly beaten-up centurion or an Atlas with no right arm, damaged heatsinks and glitchy sensors as the possible mechs, provided by his contractor.
Payment for such missions would be significantly lower, that for ones, played with the mechs, player owns, as 60 to 80% of match income would be subtracted as a payment for the use of contractor's mech. This would let player use a functional mech, stay active without trashing his damaged mech even more and accumulate cache without resorting to hanging at the rear in his trashed mech and waiting for the rest of the team to win a round for him.

By the way, faction members would alway be able to lend money from fellow players and maybe even have an option to take a loan from the faction itself, with the load amount and conditions depending on their rank within their faction.

[Hayden]

Bryan Ekman, on 23 March 2012 - 08:39 AM, said:

This is one of our concerns and will be addressed by a lot of play testing and balancing. I view the OP's concerns as a stick if we do not address it correctly. I don't want people to be punished so severely, that they are no longer able to play. This is a game after all, something we do for enjoyment.

That's all I can ask for at this point.

[Catharsis]

00dlez, on 23 March 2012 - 08:09 AM, said:

If you are so bad/unlucky that you never win a round I suspect you wont enjoy the game enough to keep playing anyway.

You know, if a game is enjoyable enough and has a strong teambased mechanic, you are likely to enjoy the game even if you lose nonstop.

Killing Floor is a great example. "winning" a match in that game is HARD. You have to defeat 10 waves of enemies and a final superboss that practically uses cheat codes. Unless you get really lucky with a group of strangers (or you play with a clan) you are only likely to "win" perhaps 1 in 5 matches. I have seen even the best of players die in the first seconds of the boss round.

Nonetheless, it is still a wonderfully enjoyable game. In fact, fighting down to the last few waves and kicking *** with your 5 other team mates and then dying an epic-ly pathetic death is at times even more enjoyable than actually winning a match!

Other games that really give you a sense of unit-cohesion like Tribes Ascend and Natural Selection also give you that same sense of accomplishment, even if you are on the losing side.

I am not making a specific point here. Just pointing out the other side to the whole "winning=fun, losing=frustration" argument

Edited by Catharsis, 24 March 2012 - 01:35 AM.

[DrHat]

Prosperity Park, on 23 March 2012 - 08:06 AM, said:

I know that typical gameplay activity will gain you C-Bills and XP, like killing other Mechs, accomplishing Scouting goals, etc. My question is:

"If we have players who lose frequently and early in their matches, then how can they repair their Mechs and keep playing the game?"

Will Mech repairs be so affordable that even the players who die right-off-the-bat can afford to repair their Mechs to operational status after each mission, or will repairs be free up-to-a-point and then begin costing C-bills... or...?

I can't expect anyone to pay cash/money for more c-bills just so they can repair their Mech for the next match, especially if they haven't played much and aren't convinced that MW:O is as awesome as I imagine it will be. I heard the Devs say that you can't lose your Mech to combat effects, and they said that partially-repaired Mechs can be fielded in combat, but I don't remember them saying anything about how much it costs to repair a Mech and how much "Mission Success" you'd have to experience before you can afford full Mech repairs.

So you honestly think...really truly honestly think, that they will make a game where you can reach a point where the only way for you to continue playing, is if you spend real life money? Seriously?
It may be an issue that they are working on and and as such there is no real answer to yet, however there is something to be said here about reasonable probability.

It doesn't matter how much it will cost to repair your mech, it doesn't matter how much money you will have, it doesn't matter under which circumstances you might choose to field a partially repaired mech - Really it doesn't matter, because anything else is an assumption where the goal seems to be a desire to want to be treated unfairly so you can raise a fuss about it. I mean this in the nicest way possible with no foul undertones of any kind and I hope you can see my point..you would have to be unbelievably determined to want to be in an unreasonable situation to make this kind of assumption

[Nick Makiaveli]

DrHat, on 24 March 2012 - 05:51 AM, said:

So you honestly think...really truly honestly think, that they will make a game where you can reach a point where the only way for you to continue playing, is if you spend real life money? Seriously?
It may be an issue that they are working on and and as such there is no real answer to yet, however there is something to be said here about reasonable probability.

It doesn't matter how much it will cost to repair your mech, it doesn't matter how much money you will have, it doesn't matter under which circumstances you might choose to field a partially repaired mech - Really it doesn't matter, because anything else is an assumption where the goal seems to be a desire to want to be treated unfairly so you can raise a fuss about it. I mean this in the nicest way possible with no foul undertones of any kind and I hope you can see my point..you would have to be unbelievably determined to want to be in an unreasonable situation to make this kind of assumption

I'm glad I realized you're a mod because I was straight up gonna call you a troll or worse.

I think you misunderstood his point. Because I do really, truly, and honestly believe there are people out there who think it would be a good idea to build a F2P game that would require you to pay to keep playing. I know PGI isn't that stupid, but there is always someone stupid enough out there for ANY idea. Depending on how long the OP has been hanging out here, he may not have been exposed to the devs and thus not have a clue if they own brains or not.

That said, he was just asking what if? I think the fact that he implied the CS option with "..." says a lot. So I think you just misunderstood where he was coming from.

Thanks and have a nice day!!

[Name140704]

guardian wolf, on 23 March 2012 - 09:22 AM, said:

I can see this as a problem, but like Garth has said, then either downgrade your mech, or repair only what you need if you are a support mech.

I can see the support 'mech becoming popular with c-billed repairs, and also a great choice for beginners. I really hope they eliminate the jump/shoot/hide paradigm that ruined MW4 for me, because that crap was boring!

[T0RC4ED]

I dont know about everyone else, but Im not the least bit worried about not having the cash for repairs. Im more concerned with what I am going to do with all the extra cash I have.

Example, early on in each prestiege level in black ops I had to plan what stuff i needed vice what I didnt so I could outfit my classes to turn around any team no matter how bad they were doing. As I got to the mid 20s money was no longer an object. I would nock out the contracts and score a disgusting amount of points for kills, captures and assists;earning myself lots of cash and the disgust of the other team.

Just because your team lost doesn't mean you as an individual are a looser. Ive played countless games where I had end of match scores Higher then the top 3 or more players on the other team put together and my team still lost.

All that being said, if you play in a manner that you can honestly say was your best effort im sure you will walk (or have your mech towed) away with more cash than you went in with.

[DrHat]

Nick Makiaveli, on 24 March 2012 - 06:10 AM, said:

I'm glad I realized you're a mod because I was straight up gonna call you a troll or worse.

I think you misunderstood his point. Because I do really, truly, and honestly believe there are people out there who think it would be a good idea to build a F2P game that would require you to pay to keep playing. I know PGI isn't that stupid, but there is always someone stupid enough out there for ANY idea. Depending on how long the OP has been hanging out here, he may not have been exposed to the devs and thus not have a clue if they own brains or not.

That said, he was just asking what if? I think the fact that he implied the CS option with "..." says a lot. So I think you just misunderstood where he was coming from.

Thanks and have a nice day!!

This is why I took so much care to underline that I didn't mean anything malicious nor unpleasant by why I said, so that I wouldn't get called a troll since indeed what I was going after was a reaction of "Well I suppose there is only so much you can assume before it starts getting unreasonable"...Theorizing is fine but there is a limit where you really should engage your reason too

[Nick Makiaveli]

DrHat, on 24 March 2012 - 07:52 AM, said:

This is why I took so much care to underline that I didn't mean anything malicious nor unpleasant by why I said, so that I wouldn't get called a troll since indeed what I was going after was a reaction of "Well I suppose there is only so much you can assume before it starts getting unreasonable"...Theorizing is fine but there is a limit where you really should engage your reason too

I agree that at some point you need to stop and think. And once I saw you were a mod, I knew that you meant the part about not being snotty. Thanks for taking my comments the way they were meant

[Morgana]

What I don't want to see is the guy coming into game with a half-beaten up mech camping and counting on the C-Bill his possibly winning team would collect in order to gain enough money to fix his mech. I understand that doing something like that would not gain him XP, but he shouldn't be awarded any C-Bills for it either.

[Kanatta Jing]

I don't think it will take C-bills to repair your mech. Just time.

[00dlez]

Catharsis, on 24 March 2012 - 01:26 AM, said:

You know, if a game is enjoyable enough and has a strong teambased mechanic, you are likely to enjoy the game even if you lose nonstop.

Killing Floor is a great example. "winning" a match in that game is HARD. You have to defeat 10 waves of enemies and a final superboss that practically uses cheat codes. Unless you get really lucky with a group of strangers (or you play with a clan) you are only likely to "win" perhaps 1 in 5 matches. I have seen even the best of players die in the first seconds of the boss round.

Nonetheless, it is still a wonderfully enjoyable game. In fact, fighting down to the last few waves and kicking *** with your 5 other team mates and then dying an epic-ly pathetic death is at times even more enjoyable than actually winning a match!

Other games that really give you a sense of unit-cohesion like Tribes Ascend and Natural Selection also give you that same sense of accomplishment, even if you are on the losing side.

I am not making a specific point here. Just pointing out the other side to the whole "winning=fun, losing=frustration" argument

I agree, but I think that OP's point was implying that these people would simply quit and that's a concern for the community. If players don't mind losing, theres no issue with mech repairs after losses.


I also play killing floor

[Sug]

Green Players - You're part of a House faction. Your repairs are free but you don't earn as much xp per match.


Veteran Players - You're part of a Merc unit. The Unit is responsible for your repairs. You earn standard xp.

Elite Players - If you're a Lone Wolf all repairs are your responsibility but you get the most xp from winning matches.

[checker]

Scanlon, on 23 March 2012 - 08:09 AM, said:

Good question. Im a person who gets held up on team-play to a fault. I imagine I will die frequently.

For instance, Im the Jenner running about as the tattle-tale mech to my friend the Catapult. Saying:

Me: "Hey Catapult dude, theyre over here, shooting the ever living hell out of me, please shoot them. Over"
Catapult: Yeah, Roger, moving to position to fire. Keep that lock on them. Over"
Me: "WILCO, hurry up cause theyre kicking the **** out of me. Out"

30 seconds later

Me: "Hey catapult im really ****ed up how about that missile volley? Over"
Catapult: "Sorry, I got held up capturing a position, I forgot. Over"
Me: "Ahhh!" KABLOOEY

rofl; omg I want to play with Scanlon. Anybody that calm is going to be a great mech ally. The name is Checker and I'll wing ya anyday Scanlon.

[warner2]

In response to the OP, something that basic would be addressed early on, so you shouldn't have anything to worry about.

More generally reading some of these replies and between the lines, MWO needs to be really careful with these levelling mechanics, with this play-the-game-to-get-credits-to-buy-more-stuff aspect that all on-line games seen to have these days. It's that stuff that leaves to a feeling of grinding, or a feeling of playing the game you don't want to play (e.g. a "starter" mech) just to get to a place that you do want to be, which in turn leads to players farming credits. Players join games in WOT then don't actually play (you get some XP in WOT for joining a game and then going to make a cup of tea), or play in such a way that shows their only goal is getting credits (like charging the enemy to get some credits for "scouting" even though they die within 30 seconds of the start).

Talk in this thread of going into games with a minimally repaired mech and then doing very little just to earn credits has worrying echos of what happens in WOT, and it's entirely down to the presence of levelling mechanics.

In all honesty I hope the levelling stuff stays in the RPGs where it belongs. I'm not sure MWO will have this levelling aspect in quite the same way. or to the same degree, I just hope they're really careful with it.

[Nik Van Rhijn]

I take the view that if I really suck but enjoy the game I'm willing to pay for it. Those that are good at it have the reward of playing for free.

[rafgod]

Dlardrageth, on 23 March 2012 - 12:29 PM, said:

I just hope PGI gives us the right/option to blacklist those so we needn't bother with them any more after one misspent match. Otherwise I might have to get a macro or something to disconnect from matches so I won't have to waste 20 minutes of my lifetime thanks to those dweebs.

So, you'd drop at the start of a match, thereby making sure the team you were on starts off 12 on 11. Probably will earn you a few spots on various 'blacklists'.