61 replies to this topic

[Illya Ghost Bear]

I'm just waiting for the Grand Dragon......

Edited by Illyana Arkhipova, 03 December 2012 - 09:21 PM.

[Ashnod]

except it wouldn't without 2.0 DHS

[Kobold]

The Orion is the only realistic 75 tonner at this point.

[Zarkus]

I like the idea of adding the Orion. It fills a niche not currently occupied by existing heavy 'mechs (support = Catapult, slugger = Cataphract, cavalry = Dragon, command/control = ?), and is not overspecialized.

[edit]
And, having taken a minute to look over existing artwork for the Orion, anything done by Alex Iglesias would probably become the coolest art that will ever be produced for it, including doodles on a napkin with a crayon.

Edited by Zarkus, 04 December 2012 - 12:04 AM.

[Tuhalu]

Strum Wealh, on 18 October 2012 - 03:41 AM, said:

Additionally, it should also be noted that PGI has already doubled-up on 35-tonners (Jenner and Raven) as well as 65-tonners (Catapult and JagerMech), and has already tripled-up on 50-tonners (Hunchback, Centurion, and Trebuchet), but there are still no 45-tonners, 55-tonners, 75-tonners, or 95-tonners announced as yet.

Grasshopper (70 tons)
Guillotine (70 tons)
Lancelot (60 tons)
Quickdraw (60 tons)

Your thoughts?

I'm a little sad that I missed this thread until now....

Highlander is 95 ton, so I suspect you meant "no 90 tonners announced as yet". Just had to get that out >.>

The Guillotine, Black Knight and Flashman mechs all boil down to 1 variant a piece in MWO terms. Quickdraw comes a little closer with 2 unique variants. You'd have to give them more than 6 hard points to create more variants than this though, so it just barely misses the mark imo.

Grasshopper just barely squeezes in imo, but I'd be happy to see it:
GHR-5H: LA-1E, RA-1E, LT-1E, RT-1E,CT-1E, H-1M, JJ, 2 modules
GHR-5N: RA-1E, LA-1E, LT-1E, RT-2E, H-1E, JJ, 2 modules
GHR-5J: RA-2E, LA-2E, CT-1E, H-1M, JJ, +1 AMS, 1 module (added energy HP to arms to get the balance).

The Ostroc (60 ton) seems viable to me.
OSR-2C: 300 engine, LT-2E, RT-2E+1M, 2 modules
OSR-2Cb: 300 engine, LT-2E+1M, RT-2E+1M, 1 modules
OSR-2M: 300 engine, LT-2E, RT-2E, JJ, 3 modules

The Lancelot is requires a little more effort. Here is a possible set:
LNC-25-02: 240 engine, RA-1E, LA-1E, RT-2E, LT-2E, 2 modules (added energy HP to LT/RT for balance)
LNC-25-03: 300XL engine, RA-1B, LA-1B, RT-2E, CT-2E, 2 modules (added eenrgy HP to LT/RT for balance)
LNC-25-05: 360XL engine, RA-1E+2B, LA-1E+2B, RT-1E, 1 module

The Orion is probably the most viable one left to add:
ON1-K: 300 engine, RA-1E, LA-1E, RT-2B, LT-2M, 2 modules (added ballistic HP to RT for balance)
ON1-V: 300 engine, RA-1E+1M, LA-1E+1M, RT-1B, LT-1M, 2 modules
ON1-M: 300XL, RA-1E, LA-1E+1M, RT-1B, LT-1M, CT-1M, 2 modules

Looking over this list, I'll be surprised if we don't get the Orion next, simply because it's more viable and iconic than the Grasshopper and the Ostroc isn't very well known. I'd be surprised if they added the lancelot since it's pretty hard to balance out the variants and really not that common a mech.

[SpiralRazor]

They would be completely dumb not to reimage the Marauder and charge $20 for it.

[Fiachdubh]

Flashman with seven medium lasers was my main mech in Mechwarrior 2: Mercenaries. Love to see it come back.

[Grisolm Redd]

Where are all the Megaman jokes?

[Andarist]

Understanding the three variant points being made, and with the caveat that I know nothing about the Flashman to either agree or disagree with any of the points above, here's my question: why not just make up some variants? Okay, that may be blasphemy for TT players out there, but with a little creative design surely any mech can have the variants. I mean, take the Mad Cat (obviously not in game yet, but first one that came to mind)... What if those missile pods were PPCs like the K2? Or even laser arrays like that hunchback variant with the 8 med lasers (forget right now which one)
I don't see why PGI can't just fill in any gaps where canonical mechs are lacking variants with variants of their own design.

[Joseph Mallan]

Redshift2k5, on 17 October 2012 - 11:27 AM, said:

Many people gloss over a very important facet when choosing a mech to suggest:

Mechs in MWO need to fit with the existing 'minimum 3 variants that are not identical hardpoint loadouts'. some mechs get around this minimum 3x problem because they can have one variant with +1 missile, another with +1 energy, etc, but many mechs people like to promote simply don't suit this factor.

I like the Flashman but it's a tough sell to convince me there are three different Flashman variants that are different enough and fit the timeline.

Then we need to get the DEVs to rethink the xp ladder. There are quite a few Mechs that don't have the 3 variant requirement. and this will take a huge chunk of Star League era Mechs out of the mix. Presently there are 2 Flashman variants, a hero Mech could give us a third. I don't like the need to pilot 3 chassis to master one Mech. I didn't become a rifle expert by shooting 3 M-16s, As a toolmaker I can run any machine proficiently, as a machining specialist(master) I can run a Landis grinder better than a Toolmaker.

[Redshift2k5]

the 3 variant system is also a part of their monetization, forever tempting you to buy mechs to get them sooner so you can complete a mech

It also adds variety to the game so not everyone is in the same mech all the time.

[Strum Wealh]

Tuhalu, on 04 December 2012 - 01:09 AM, said:

Highlander is 95 ton, so I suspect you meant "no 90 tonners announced as yet". Just had to get that out >.>

Well, considering the fact that the Highlander (outside of a single supposed exception that is not, in fact, actually mentioned in the cited book) is and has always been a 90-ton 'Mech and that knowledge of its inclusion was available at the time I had made my previous post, I suspect
1.) when I said "95-tonner" I meant "95-tonner", and
2.) the next time you feel a need to "just get something out", you should make sure you're actually correct before doing so.

[wanderer]

Rat of the Legion Vega, on 03 December 2012 - 08:33 PM, said:

Black Knight or bust I say. They even based a whole Mecharrior 4 expansion around the Black Knight and stuck it prominently on the cover. People remember that mech far more than the Flashman or Orion. And the Black Knight fulfills the 75 ton energy boat requirement just as well.

That's part of the point. We don't really -need- an energy boat in the 75 ton range, especially since the Awesome covers it at 5 tons heavier. A mixed ballistic/missile/energy one, on the other hand that can mount more than a dinky single-crit launcher? Oh, definitely. Also, the Black Knight lacks variants to do the required 3-variant job here, while the Orion can and does with the -K, -V, and -M...and even gives you a hero 'Mech ready to go in the form of the Kerensky(later Theodore Kurita!) version.

[Strum Wealh]

wanderer, on 04 December 2012 - 05:10 AM, said:

That's part of the point. We don't really -need- an energy boat in the 75 ton range, especially since the Awesome covers it at 5 tons heavier. A mixed ballistic/missile/energy one, on the other hand that can mount more than a dinky single-crit launcher? Oh, definitely. Also, the Black Knight lacks variants to do the required 3-variant job here, while the Orion can and does with the -K, -V, and -M...and even gives you a hero 'Mech ready to go in the form of the Kerensky(later Theodore Kurita!) version.

Actually, there is a problem with Kerensky's Orion as a Hero 'Mech:
The official record sheet (included at the above-linked page) indicates that it carries a Snub-Nose PPC, a LosTech weapon that isn't supposed to be available again until 3067.

The SN-PPC is 6 tons and two criticals - identical to the Clan ER-PPC in terms of weight and size, and both lighter and less bulky than either model of IS PPC currently available.

They would need to introduce the the SN-PPC long before it "should" be available?
Or (more likely) not use it as a Hero 'Mech (at least, until the SN-PPC "should" be available)...

[wanderer]

Strum Wealh, on 04 December 2012 - 05:56 AM, said:

Actually, there is a problem with Kerensky's Orion as a Hero 'Mech:
The official record sheet (included at the above-linked page) indicates that it carries a Snub-Nose PPC, a LosTech weapon that isn't supposed to be available again until 3067.

The SN-PPC is 6 tons and two criticals - identical to the Clan ER-PPC in terms of weight and size, and both lighter and less bulky than either model of IS PPC currently available.

They would need to introduce the the SN-PPC long before it "should" be available?
Or (more likely) not use it as a Hero 'Mech (at least, until the SN-PPC "should" be available)...

That's why I note the actual design is Theodore Kurita's in this case.

What happens is this: Kerensky's Orion chassis gets so badly beaten up it's discarded shortly before the Exodus. It's refit by the Combine when they find it with current tech and given to Theodore as a present when he's leading the dregs of the Kuritan armed forces, the Legion of Vega- and later used with a decoy pilot to distract an angry horde of enemy pilots while he makes his escape. (Yes, that's the canonical story kids.)

The Theodore-refit version is mostly 3025-era tech without the snubbie- perfect Hero 'Mech material.

Edited by wanderer, 04 December 2012 - 06:12 AM.

[CodeNameValtus]

Doesn't the Highlander only technically have 2 variants available?
HGN-732 - stock
HGN-694 - nope, Heavy Gauss doesn't exist yet.
HGN-732b - sure, not very varied, but it's a variant. +1 laser, drop some heat sinks, add some level 2 tech.
HGN-733 - sure thing, swap gauss for Ac/10 and bigger engine.
HGN-734 - nope, LB20X (Can't wait for this to be added, but sadly it's not here yet)
HGN-736 - nope, Streak SRM4's
HGN-738 - nope Heavy Gauss and ER Mediums
HGN-641-X-2 - nope, ER Mediums, MML's, XL Gyros, etc.
HGN-732-Colleen - nope, Streak-SRM6 (prototype though, so one could argue it could be introduced as an early model Streak SRM 6.)

So really there's only the stock version (1, they might call it 2 ballistics slots that house 1 Gauss Rifle), one that lowers heat efficiency to add another laser (big whoop), and Artemis (2, although it's just +1 Energy Hardpoint, they could argue that they reduced the phantom +1 ballistics slot of the stock to add this), and finally the 734 (3), which is supposedly a downgrade, using an AC/10 in place of the Gauss, and a slightly bigger engine (which according to their current system would give it a higher top end engine, and therefore top speed, but we're talking an assault mech here, so really you might get another 8 kph total out of this)

[Hatachi]

I would say if we were to get a upper class heavy mech I think I would prefer the Black Knight for looks alone. The Flashman always looked kind of dorky to me, but aesthetics are a personal opinion of course.

@Wanderer

I've always been a fan of the Orion, and while I didn't like Takashi era Kurita very much, "Wolves on the Border" ruined them for me a bit. I have always thought that Theodore was one hell of a badass.

Edited by Hatachi, 04 December 2012 - 06:24 AM.

[Tuhalu]

Strum Wealh, on 04 December 2012 - 05:03 AM, said:

Well, considering the fact that the Highlander (outside of a single supposed exception that is not, in fact, actually mentioned in the cited book) is and has always been a 90-ton 'Mech and that knowledge of its inclusion was available at the time I had made my previous post, I suspect
1.) when I said "95-tonner" I meant "95-tonner", and
2.) the next time you feel a need to "just get something out", you should make sure you're actually correct before doing so.

I try to. Unfortunately, I'm not as perfect as I'd like to be.

Now if only they added the Banshee as well so we didn't have to have this conversation >.>

Edited by Tuhalu, 04 December 2012 - 06:29 AM.

[wanderer]

CodeNameValtus, on 04 December 2012 - 06:18 AM, said:

Doesn't the Highlander only technically have 2 variants available?

From the Ask the Devs #27:

Garth Erlam, on 03 December 2012 - 04:27 PM, said:

Q: How will mechs that have less than 3 variants achieve the elite and master tier levels of the mech trees? For example, the Highlander has been announced to only have 1 variant at launch (possible this has changed) [Tvae]
A: I only knew one variant at the time, saying something like "the only variant I know of is the HGN 732." The variants are: HGN-732, HGN-733, HGN-733C, HGN-733P.

http://www.masteruni...Name=Highlander

Sarna is good, but not always QUITE complete on things like variant listings.

[Joseph Mallan]

Strum Wealh, on 04 December 2012 - 05:56 AM, said:

Actually, there is a problem with Kerensky's Orion as a Hero 'Mech:
The official record sheet (included at the above-linked page) indicates that it carries a Snub-Nose PPC, a LosTech weapon that isn't supposed to be available again until 3067.

The SN-PPC is 6 tons and two criticals - identical to the Clan ER-PPC in terms of weight and size, and both lighter and less bulky than either model of IS PPC currently available.

They would need to introduce the the SN-PPC long before it "should" be available?
Or (more likely) not use it as a Hero 'Mech (at least, until the SN-PPC "should" be available)...

BUT Kerensky's Orion was lovingly restored to 3025 tech by Theodore's Auntie. So we could have it with the semi regular loadout + The dual Cockpit (IIRC) that Theo drove with the Legion of Vega.