95 replies to this topic

[Catharsis]

~Yonder there be major frelling spoilers!~


This video. What are your thoughts on the ending of Mass Effect 3? Do you think that this theory has potential to pan out? It certainly seems viable to me, and I WANT to believe that it is true. The Bioware writers have done an excellent job so far, and the ending (without this theory) just seems like it came way out of left field. It simply does not fit the level of writing we have seen before from Bioware. And they did promise an amazing ending and all that before launch. I know that people lie and corporations like EA cheat the fans to milk money out of them, but I am still willing to believe in Bioware. If we do not see anything in a year's time, I will be just as upset as the next Mass Effect fan, but for now I am hoping to see something greater at work. A larger picture. Something.

This video really stirred up a storm in my mind and since I do not have any fellow Mass Effect friends where I live, I thought I would look online to talk about it!

Discuss!


Oh, and Battletech is still the best sci-fi universe ever imagined and I cannot wait for MWO.
So I hope I do not get hate just for talking about another game on a forum for MWO

Cheers!

Edited by Catharsis, 24 March 2012 - 09:44 AM.

[Evinthal]

Well according to a friend of mine: Yes, Shepard IS being indoctrinated as a reaper. Go read the codex, every last bit of it and you will see that all of the stuff that happens from the ending of ME2/beginning of ME3 all are signs of being indoctrinated by the reapers (as Cerberus rebuilds you using reaper technology, according to him) and that choosing the "renegade" (red) ending is actually the "good/paragon" one because it is the renegade thing to do if you are a reaper (going against reaper indoctrination and all).

Please note I am roughly paraphrasing him here and I myself haven't actually played through the game. I do however find the amount of whining about how it ends hilarious, and it makes me want to play it now.

[Catharsis]

Evinthal, on 24 March 2012 - 09:44 AM, said:

Well according to a friend of mine: Yes, Shepard IS being indoctrinated as a reaper. Go read the codex, every last bit of it and you will see that all of the stuff that happens from the ending of ME2/beginning of ME3 all are signs of being indoctrinated by the reapers (as Cerberus rebuilds you using reaper technology, according to him) and that choosing the "renegade" (red) ending is actually the "good/paragon" one because it is the renegade thing to do if you are a reaper (going against reaper indoctrination and all).

Please note I am roughly paraphrasing him here and I myself haven't actually played through the game. I do however find the amount of whining about how it ends hilarious, and it makes me want to play it now.

That is one of the points this video covers. However, not only does it point out that the renegade option is the TRUE good choice, it goes on to say that the ENTIRE ending takes place inside Shepard's mind (with the Illusive Man and Anderson acting out the Good and the Reaper side of Shepard's consciousness).

The amount of contention on the internet about ME3's ending is ridiculous. I actually was waiting to play the game, but I got it all spoiled while reading online and so I went ahead and jumped in so I would not kill myself in angst

[Evinthal]

Ah, think I messed up a little bit there. The whole "go and read the codex" thing was what my friend was saying to me if I was going to play through ME3.

I do remember hearing that one of the developers or writers said he thought the ending was a fitting one, but a lot of people might not like it. Or something similar.

Also: Great, now I am going to have to add all three of them to my list of games to play. (Partially played the first one while at a friends.)

[Catharsis]

Evinthal, on 24 March 2012 - 10:05 AM, said:

Also: Great, now I am going to have to add all three of them to my list of games to play. (Partially played the first one while at a friends.)

PLAY THEM. PLAY THEM NOW!


Regardless of how the series ends, Mass Effect has been one of my favorite series ever. The game and story has its weaknesses, but the strengths totally outweigh any negative sides. I would go so far as to say that they "changed my life".
Not in any ridiculous, fantastic, idealized way... but I really did feel subtly different after completely the games for the first time. It was an awesome feeling.


Then, after you have cried epic tears of sorrow and joy, you can come back to MWO and blow s*** up with a purpose!

[Lorcan Lladd]

I'm mildly disappointed with the ending, mostly because there are apparently no repercussions to Shepard's actions displayed in any of the endings; no consequences to betraying or allying with any of the races, or even for any of the choices made, really - it really is as though his or her epic struggle wasn't anything more than a bedtime story, in which the ending is not a natural conclusion to the narrative, but more like an imposition.

I hope this will be corrected by new DLC.

[Evinthal]

Lorcan Lladd, on 24 March 2012 - 10:33 AM, said:

I'm mildly disappointed with the ending, mostly because there are apparently no repercussions to Shepard's actions displayed in any of the endings; no consequences to betraying or allying with any of the races, or even for any of the choices made, really - it really is as though his or her epic struggle wasn't anything more than a bedtime story, in which the ending is not a natural conclusion to the narrative, but more like an imposition.

I hope this will be corrected by new DLC.

So I just watched the movie posted, and thought of this after seeing your post. If the endings are all in Shepard's mind, why WOULD you see repercussions to his choices, as none of those endings have actually played out.

[Catharsis]

Lorcan Lladd, on 24 March 2012 - 10:33 AM, said:

I'm mildly disappointed with the ending, mostly because there are apparently no repercussions to Shepard's actions displayed in any of the endings; no consequences to betraying or allying with any of the races, or even for any of the choices made, really - it really is as though his or her epic struggle wasn't anything more than a bedtime story, in which the ending is not a natural conclusion to the narrative, but more like an imposition.

I hope this will be corrected by new DLC.

I agree with you there in some ways. The ending had a total lack of consequence to your actions through out the games.
And I think the whole bedtime story closure at the end was almost low enough to be an insult to Shepard and his companions.

But, just to present a counterargument, you could say that ALL heroes, like Shepard and his crew, turn into bedtime stories over time. I am sure many sons of WW2 vets who now have kids of their own tell their children stories of how their grandfather did heroic deeds. Just an example. That specific final scene COULD be Bioware trying to show how we often forget the tragedy and sacrifice of real heroes. That over time we simply remember (and pass on) that the hero did a lot of good and saved the day. That we forget about everything else that made him or her who he or she was.

And that was a very muddled train of thought. hahaha

For the moment, at least until something official comes out, I think my mind will settle with the Indoctrination Theory presented in the video I first posted. I do not want to seem like somebody who just jumps on a bandwagon; I just think it is a really sound theory that is both believable and tolerable. It is DARK as can be, but as someone who loves Farscape, I am willing to have my sci-fi stories go down very dark paths.

Sorry for how muddled my thoughts are. I have far too many swirling around inside

[Kenyon Burguess]

11 bad endings. even if they triple their funding for another in the series i wouldnt buy it...i also feel they dont need to apologize or put DLC out to "fix" things. it is what it is and that was their understanding of what their fans wanted..or was willing to accept.

[Catharsis]

Evinthal, on 24 March 2012 - 10:42 AM, said:

So I just watched the movie posted, and thought of this after seeing your post. If the endings are all in Shepard's mind, why WOULD you see repercussions to his choices, as none of those endings have actually played out.

Exactly.

Now we just have to wait for that DLC that shows the aftermath of the conflict. I could imagine it being a DLC with NO combat. Just straight up storytelling that wraps everything up. If Bioware could do just that...

[Catharsis]

Geist Null, on 24 March 2012 - 10:46 AM, said:

11 bad endings. even if they triple their funding for another in the series i wouldnt buy it...i also feel they dont need to apologize or put DLC out to "fix" things. it is what it is and that was their understanding of what their fans wanted..or was willing to accept.

Despite being a pessimist about most things in life, I do still have hope and a little faith that Bioware knows what they are doing. I want to believe that they do, for sure. Obviously there would come a time down the line that my denial would turn to either anger or apathy, but until then I am willing to wait and see.

Shepard's story-arc aside, I think that the Mass Effect universe is rich enough to tell even more stories that might not even have anything to do with the Reapers. It would be a shame for the universe to die off just because of this game.

Do I sound like a fanboy or what? hahaha

A patient one in the least.

[Anita Chess]

eh, Mass Effect 3, major disappointment, at least the ending could have been like that of Dragon Age 1, and tell us what happened with some people, places, and races

[SquareSphere]

I'm fine with theory.

What i'm not ok with is EA/Bioware not actually packaging the "real" ending with the game. IF they charge for the new ending DLC i'll refuse to buy it.

[Hades Serpent]

Even IF indoc theory is true (and I have my doubts; I'm far too cynical already...it's far more likely they just completely frelled the story), it's still a dick move. They promised an ending. They did not deliver an ending. That's the situation, and it's rather black and white from my perspective. They simply didn't deliver on their promises.

The whole situation is insane. If indoc was right, BW and EA should've announced their plans already to put-out this media wildfire. Washington Post, Forbes, and BBC have already reported on this, and they're updating their stories. Forbes' readers aren't exactly there for the video games, they're there for the business news. And this...this is just bad, bad treatment of your customers, and thus, very, very bad business.

Edited by Hades Serpent, 24 March 2012 - 12:32 PM.

[Sesambrot]

I haven't watched the ending completely, but I sure hope there is something more...

While being not as bad as I expected after I read all the crap about it, it was still dissappointing when I settled down and thought about it a little. Actually I think holding back the true ending, putting the player in a situation like that, would be an ingenious way to immerse the player into this kind of story (provided the indoctrinationtheory is true), and then reveal the true ending at a later point via free DLC, is an interessting way of litterally making the player the protagonist.
If it's not clear yet, I really do hope it turns out to be true and we see something wrap this whole story up properly.

Again if it turns out to be true, then I do hope that it's actually going to be a free DLC, otherwise Bioware and EA will have forever lost any trust I had in them! There wasn't much to begin with regarding EA, but Bioware...

Either way, I think I'll have to replay the ending paying more attention to those signs mentioned in the video, gonna report back in abou an hour lol!

SquareSphere, on 24 March 2012 - 12:00 PM, said:

... IF they charge for the new ending DLC i'll refuse to buy it.

Probably you, me and thousands of other ME-fans out there!
Unfortunately there would probably still be plenty to buy it though...

[Mystwolf]

it is their IP to do with as they see fit.

With that said......my daughter and I came to the same conclusion about the indoctrination. The big deal is I don't want speculation. I want an ending. A clear cut, concise ending.....even if I die. In Dragon Age 1 I chose the path that killed me and I love all the little things they put in about my sacrifice and about how the others viewed it and how things went on and concluded. That was an ending. When they make it vague yeah I can "write" my own ending in my head but it still leaves a void in the story, IMO. I will give them time and see what will happen but in the end if this is it my opinion of Bioware will be changed. Before this I would hear Bioware game and have to give it some serious thought and more than likely get it.......now it is like most other games I will have to research and then 50/50. but in the end it is their IP whether I like the ending or not.

[Coralld]

The Indoctrination theory is the only possible theory that I know of that makes sense and attempts to cover what we see which comes from out of no where and is one of the reasons why people are so confused about what just happened, but the Indoctrination theory explains some of it. I would love to see this so called ending elaborated on. Perhaps the possible DLC's that will be coming out will expand on the endings we now have which is filled with plot holes you could drive the combined Reaper and the entire Galaxy fleets through.

[Sesambrot]

Coralld, on 24 March 2012 - 02:42 PM, said:

The Indoctrination theory is the only possible theory that I know of that makes sense and attempts to cover what we see which comes from out of no where and is one of the reasons why people are so confused about what just happened, but the Indoctrination theory explains some of it. I would love to see this so called ending elaborated on. Perhaps the possible DLC's that will be coming out will expand on the endings we now have which is filled with plot holes you could drive the combined Reaper and the entire Galaxy fleets through.

I'd say it's the only plausible one, unless you want to believe that Bioware went batshit crazy during the final month of development and dumped all writing...
As I see it there are three different ways for this to work out:
A. they do nothing about the ending, many people will be pissed, all the fuzz will settle eventlually but half the people will stop buying bioware stuff...
B. they release a new/extended ending DLC and charge for it, many people will be pissed, all the fuzz will settle eventlually but half the people will stop buying bioware stuff...
C. they release a new/extended ending DLC for free, everything is ponies and rainbows and everybody is happy!

Hm, three possible outcomes, doesn't that sound familiar...?
Well, at least one of them is vastly different from the other two... P

Edited by Sesambrot, 24 March 2012 - 05:00 PM.

[Coralld]

Sesambrot, on 24 March 2012 - 04:59 PM, said:

I'd say it's the only plausible one, unless you want to believe that Bioware went batshit crazy during the final month of development and dumped all writing...

Well there is the problem of EA being involved and thus that nightmare scenario you just mention could be a possibility.

[Catharsis]

SquareSphere, on 24 March 2012 - 12:00 PM, said:

I'm fine with theory. What i'm not ok with is EA/Bioware not actually packaging the "real" ending with the game. IF they charge for the new ending DLC i'll refuse to buy it.

I understand this argument, and I agree with it. I just wonder though, would you buy it if really did complete the story in a respectable manner? Part of me thinks it should be a free update to appease the community. Vital story content SHOULD be included with the full game. Having to pay more than 60$ to finish the story is completely playing fans for fools. It would be like if the "Sorry, Mario, but the princess is in another castle" ending required that you pay extra money in order to get to the REAL castle.

Still, part of me also would be willing to pay (say 15$) for it; if it was quality content. Bioware and all the stellar voice talent do deserve to get paid for the work they put in to something. Especially since they do not have to do anything for us. ME3 already sold tons of copies and I am sure that EA could tell them simply to cut their losses and move on. I know that they owe the fans... but it is like Zellbrigen. The only thing you really lose when you throw it out the window is honor. If that matters to you; if you care what the community thinks of you, then you best follow it. But if you could care less, if you already have achieved what you wanted to achieve... well it does not matter so much.