53 replies to this topic

[Sandpit]

I apologize in advance if this has been discussed before but I have searched and tried to make sure I'm not just beating a dead horse....

Solaris should be implemented for all new players. Your trial mechs could easily be used to advance through a Solaris training program and get you familiar with each weight class, weapons systems, etc. before dropping a player headlong into the meta game of the Inner Sphere wars. The learning curve on here is both steep and mild at the same time. It's easy to read the controls and know how to make your mech go forward and click the button to fire weapons. It's not easy to master the intricacies of heat management, weapon ranges, roles of certain mechs, etc.

I think it would be nice to have just a short "tutorial" that new players go through using Solaris as a jumping off point to give them a little background on the mechs, the inner sphere, houses, weapon systems, and get a "feel" for the differences in operating a 100-ton brawler like an Atlas as opposed to a 35-ton Jenner. It wouldn't have to be long or drawn out but it would educate new players as well as help keep houses from losing large chunks of planets as new players come in. Once they complete their Solaris training they make their decision as to which faction to join and hitch a ride to the nearest battlefield.

I know that some players will just speed through it wanting to jump in game and a few don't need it but for those that do it would be a nice addition. You could also have community members donate time to hang out in a Solaris chat hub to answer questions and help out. I'm sure there are a few BT vets that would be willing to do this from time to time and maybe reward them with a small token of c-bills for their time. I think it would also help build community camaraderie. It's jsut an idea and I'm sure there are a few things that might not be plausible or need tweaking to implement but I wanted to suggest it.

I think it would also go a loooong way to closing the experience gap between new players and vets which would help alleviate some of the stomps we see in game.

[Carrie Harder]

We already have Solaris in the forms of Assault, Conquest, and Skirmish.

All we need is Duncan Fischer commentary. KAPOW!

Edited by Carrie Harder, 16 August 2014 - 05:25 PM.

[Biglead]

Agreed! Education of the masses can only make this game more enjoyable.

[ManDaisy]

Solaris HAS to be in the game for everyone NOT interested in community warfare. It is the perfect divider between casual and hardcore, experienced and inexperienced, competitive and non competitive.

Many areas of the "NEW PLAYER EXPERIENCE" could be tied to Solaris and "ACTUALLY GIVE THE FEELING OF AN IMMERSIVE STORY" instead of just being thrown out of a truck like now.

example:
"story arch #1, fighting from the lows through the masses, getting your name attention."
"story arch #2, Recognition, choosing a faction, missions, objectives "
"story arch #3, betrayal, loss of a home, rebuilding with a new start"

Solaris also has the ability to host many game modes/tournaments/competitions that do not directly tie into the feel of community warfare.

Solaris serves as the common ground for factions to come and fight where there is no land connection existing.

Without Solaris as place to fight and learn you will have many people who "DONT CARE" about community warfare and territory in general who will just be mucking up the map!


Other thoughts:

-Solaris provides a good way for repair and reload to coexist with casual gameplay.

-Solaris would be a place where repair and reload are free, A safe ground where rewards are explained as rewards from fame through entertainment in the grand arena. The grand illusion of nobility celebrity and social rank and high society.

-Community warfare would have repair and reload exist. It would be a harder land of death, pillaging, war. reality loss and consequence.

Edited by ManDaisy, 16 August 2014 - 05:56 PM.

[fleshwoundNPG]

Not just for the n00b learning, but for the esports scene as well. Can you imagine an 8-mech free for all in a sponsor logo-enhanced octagon arena broadcasting on Twitch? (Well, I could imagine if PGI could make maps faster than 1 per year...)

Besides, my Founders Cat and Protector need a home... *cough*3025StockClass*cough*

[Asmudius Heng]

Does this really need to be discussed? Does PGI not realise how important training and some element of lore and story is for capturing new players?

PGI just do it ... This is more important than CW quite frankly and I want CW to mean something too

[Griggio]

Carrie Harder, on 16 August 2014 - 05:24 PM, said:

All we need is Duncan Fischer commentary. KAPOW!

Seriously Duncan Fischer...do it!

[ManDaisy]

Solaris is the OTHER part of CW that makes the whole concept work. Community warfare! You have two communities! Serve them both and make them happy!

[fleshwoundNPG]

Griggio, on 16 August 2014 - 05:58 PM, said:

Seriously Duncan Fischer...do it!

DUNCAN FISHER WARHORN PGI PLZ

[Carrie Harder]

fleshwoundNPG, on 16 August 2014 - 06:00 PM, said:

DUNCAN FISHER WARHORN PGI PLZ

The first warhorn that I might actually be interested in.

[TLBFestus]

What's to discuss Nikolai? this thread is dated October 12, 2012, which is approximately 18 months ago and PGI had done very little to create an attractive New Player Experience

To state the obvious, it would seen like making a truly entertaining and educational New Player module would have been a high priority, since attracting new players and keeping some of them so they convert to "spenders" should be the ultimate goal of any F2P game.

Instead, PGI has concentrated on milking the existing community for money at every opportunity, and for the most part has ignored something that the game and community needs for it to succeed.

I would imagine that the biggest stumbling block for this would be some sort of rudimentary AI so the player has a moving target to fire at initially. I would suggest that the first few matches be "practice target" matches with a moving mech that doesn't fire back.

Get the player familiar with the movement mechanics of their mech, and then use a "Drill Sargent" voice over to instruct them to "Shoot that weapons arm off that mech greenhorn!", or something similar. Have them target components and see what happens.

If you get ambitious, then scale them up to an AI mech that fires back or moves more, and eventually graduate the to fighting other new players for their last few matchs.

THEN give them a damned mech of their own and 25 game to earn enough to tweak it out or buy another one so they have OWNERSHIP (also known as "investment") in the game.

Even allow them to return their first selection once within 24-48 hours in case they made a bad choice that doesn't suit them. This allows a little thing I like to call "learning" and encourages them not to be afraid or give up if they make a mistake early on.

I know......makes sense doesn't it? The thing that annoys me the most is that PGI actually seems to need help figuring out how to improve the New Player experience, when with very little effort anyone can come up with a half a dozen suggestions that could be relatively easily implemented.

[Cimarb]

I agree about this, and sponsorship is something that I think would be a HUGE income booster for PGI. Like Google AdWords, you could have real-life companies advertise in the game, such as Razor, Alienware, etc., as well as in-game units advertising for recruitment. NGNG could advertise their next podcast and newest t-shirts. It is really an enormous potential to make money while adding a really cool feel to Solaris.

Volunteers could be paid in MC for their training time, and maybe even have it be a pyramid scheme where they continue to earn a small percentage based upon the wins of their students for a certain period of time.

[fleshwoundNPG]

Cimarb, on 16 August 2014 - 06:15 PM, said:

I agree about this, and sponsorship is something that I think would be a HUGE income booster for PGI. Like Google AdWords, you could have real-life companies advertise in the game, such as Razor, Alienware, etc., as well as in-game units advertising for recruitment. NGNG could advertise their next podcast and newest t-shirts. It is really an enormous potential to make money while adding a really cool feel to Solaris.

Volunteers could be paid in MC for their training time, and maybe even have it be a pyramid scheme where they continue to earn a small percentage based upon the wins of their students for a certain period of time.

You all are welcome.

[Sandpit]

Well, to be honest, this is and was an incomplete post and meant to be a series of posts. Some of the ideas that are being talked about here are what I ultimately wanted to suggest

Solaris would serve two functions

1) It gives new players a training area separate from CW and "public" queues. If veteran players (based on a vetting process) are allowed into the queue with them, they can offer advice, tips, answer questions, etc. from new players. These matches wouldn't count for the vets stats, but they'd get a set amount of cbills and exp per match. If R&R are ever reintroduced it will not apply to matches played here.

It also gives new players a place to test out different mechs.
In order to "graduate" a player would have to play xx amount of matches in each weight class. This ensures that before that "cadet" graduates and blows all of that hard-earned cadet bonus money on a mech, they're making an informed decision. They will have spent time in each weight class and have a much better understanding of how they all work.
The "cadet program" would also be extended to 50 matches. I'm sorry but there's no way 25 matches are enough for a new player to be experienced enough to take out custom mechs piloted by veteran players.

Now, after 25 matches, a player CAN opt out of the cadet program (this also allows players using an alt account to get back into the "real" game sooner). They no longer get a bonus after 25 matches but they can stay under "new player protection" for an additional 25 matches.

While in the training program they are also given access to a larger variety of mechs and are allowed to customize (although this isn't permanent). I know that could be hard to code so instead of giving them free reign, they are given 2 mechs in each weight class (which will rotate periodically) to play around with. This gives them mech lab experience as well so they know how to work with it before they accidentally sell off that XL engine and such.

Keep in mind, this is all done immediately after signing up for MWO. They are automatically entered into this queue so it does not interfere with "public" queues. This also completely eliminates new players getting stomped by veterans AND veterans getting frustrated with the game because 5 players on their team did less than 100 damage.

2)
The other side of Solaris is that it offers a 1v1, 2v2, 3v3, 4v4 or 12v12 functionality. This serves several purposes. It allows the "competitive" crowd to have an easy system to allow them to run their leagues and such. It also allows small "casual" groups to train friends and adds in a true "solaris tournament" option. Players can set up Solaris tournies, track leaderboards through the "season" and such. If and when gifting is allowed it opens it up even further to full on bettings, wagers, odds, etc. on "Solaris" itself.

Now I know this sounds complicated but really it's not
1v1
2v2
3v3
4v4
12v12
sounds like a lot for PGI to code right? Well not really. It's actually very easy. They've already got the groundwork set for private matches. So now they just add these match types into the Solaris private matches. That means if you want a 1v1, all you have to do is drop into the Solaris section and go. Same with the other matches I mentioned. Now I also know the dreaded "Oh no, PGI can't absorb the cost of partially filled servers. Well that's the issue for private matches. These aren't private matches. These are matches set according to rigid numbers. This game USED to be 8v8 so it's the same principle. The matches only launch when they're full just like they did when we were 8v8 and how they do now that we're 12v12.

What about map selection?
Well, there's a few ways to solve that.
1) make a very small set of small maps (think 4-6) specifically for Solaris
2) only allow one singular map in Solaris (this is Solaris not the cadet section and this isn't ideal but it IS an option)
3) take the existing maps and "break" them up. Most maps are far too large for 4v4 and below so take the existing maps and split them up. You randomly drop on that map's section.
IE
Take Tourmaline and break it up into 4 different maps. That takes one map and makes it 4 separate maps. Battlefield does this and it works quite well.
4) Just keep map selection random like public queues and explain it as "Solaris league is holographic rendition of real world environments"

But Sand, what about 12v12 map selection?
That's easy, map selection is custom in 12v12 Solaris. They can pick whatever map they want. It's their league and "competitive esport" so let them have it.


Essentially what this does is give just about every single player in MWO a way for them to play the game without restricting others. It opens up a whole new dynamic to the game, especially if Solaris becomes popular and people start watching the matches on stream and betting on them as well.

Solaris could also easily be setup with a registration fee. Want to participate in the Solaris league? Pony up the entrance fee. Just like Solaris was really run in lore.

This isn't a complete list of the ideas I had for this but it's a start. I'll add and hopefully you guys will as well.

[Noesis]

Good idea.

Shame it might cost $250,000 to make the romanesque setting for Solaris perhaps?

It could be useful to consider where Stables come into this as this could be an initial introduction to players becoming more versed with the team play element. Especially if part of the Meta game various stables where represented as per various competitions that the community supports. This could help to encourage some of the activities of ladder or knock out tournaments within the game.

Add in spectator modes for the fans to watch the matches or with twitch feed inherant in the process and delayed with some automnomous camera droid. But could be a way for some players/mods to become more involved with community game play with providing commentary also.

Unsure whether legal restrictions (target audience) would allow for betting on matches even if virtual currency but that could be something to consider also.

[Sandpit]

Noesis, on 16 August 2014 - 08:26 PM, said:

Good idea.

Shame it might cost $250,000 to make the romanesque setting for Solaris perhaps?

It could be useful to consider where Stables come into this as this could be an initial introduction to players becoming more versed with the team play element. Especially if part of the Meta game various stables where represented as per various competitions that the community supports. This could help to encourage some of the activities of ladder or knock out tournaments within the game.

Add in spectator modes for the fans to watch the matches or with twitch feed inherant in the process and delayed with some automnomous camera droid. But could be a way for some players/mods to become more involved with community game play with providing commentary also.

Unsure whether legal restrictions (target audience) would allow for betting on matches even if virtual currency but that could be something to consider also.

virtual currency isn't regulated under the legal system. It's not exchangeable for real world currency so no issue there.
(before you or anyone else says it, yes I know this as factual through personal experience and this is why you can't play online casino for real money in the U.S. but you can play for "funsies")

As for live feeds, a lobby system with a link to that twitch stream would work. No need to code in all the spectator stuff

at least no until they can do it without stopping production on everything for 6 months to do it (you're not the only one with snark)

Contrary to popular belief among some circles, I care very deeply about the NPE experience, I think it's shite at the moment (and has been since day 1) and would love to help improve it even if it's just suggestions on how to do so.

I also strongly believe that EVERY member of the community should have a way to enjoy the game as they see fit. I have NO problem with
Competitive crowds
PUGs
Groups
casual
hardcore
etc.
The problem I have, and have always had, is that there's no excuse for excluding one section over another. This is 2014, not 1994. Multiplayer online PvP gaming has been around for decades. There are hundreds of examples of how to set up a game so that hardcores, casuals, and lore junkies can all coexist and enjoy the same game, albeit in slightly different flavors. The groundwork for this has already been laid down with the implementation of private matches.

Lobbies is another suggestion I was going to go in-depth with regarding this. A simply lobby system would have and will solve a LOT of the game issues in general. As it is now every player is lumped into the same queue with random players. It's extremely counter-intuitive for a team based game. If this were the type of game that was focused on individual game play, that would be perfectly fine, this is NOW a game focused on individual game play though. It is a game that you cannot win without teamwork. It's impossible. It cannot be done because you cannot take the biggest, heaviest mech in the game and tank into the enemy and win. It's just not possible. So it needs these rudimentary features in order to encourage that.

That's getting a little off-topic though. Lobbies would also (comprehensively) improve the NPE as well as every other player's experience in general.

[Sandpit]

As another expansion idea...


I also had the thought that new players should have an exclusive section of the forums. Only new players and "trainers" (as mentioned above) would be allowed. That helps cut down on the amount of work moderators have to do in order to keep the new player section clean from the toxicity that can spread throughout the rest of the forums at times. Just like many other forums, they must be a member for a certain amount of time or hit a certain post count before being allowed access to the GD and other sections as well. This isn't meant to "exclude" or punish new players but it serves a dual purpose.

As mentioned above, it helps new players avoid the more toxic members of the community while simultaneously allowing them quicker answers to questions from informed sources in a more unbiased fashioned

It also ensures that new players are able to give feedback without getting slammed from older members (including the lovely "You're new so you don't know what you're talking about and I've been here longer so my opinion counts for more than yours). This gives PGI a way to gather feedback exclusively from new players without digging through other posts and makes sure that new players have a little experience in the game before posting in the GD section and such. This would help cut down on the number of duplicate posts. I think it would go a long way to improving the NPE experience overall.

[Lefty Lucy]

New players absolutely need more to get them into the game, however I also think that the ship has sailed long, long ago when they went to Open Beta, and then Launch without even a rudimentary new player experience.

[PANZERKAT]

Make it so we an customize our mecjock and hang around at the Mercenary planet in a bar. Use it as the launching platform for the areas of space where your unit can drop. Have a seminar room where people can access terminals with a detailed history of the Inner Sphere, the culture and the mindset. I would say partner up with Catalyst for this and offer their products as a discount to those with premium time. Find a way so it's sweet for them beyond simply exposing the material to this gaming crowd, many of which have never seen the actual game.

That would add an extra tier of MC items and unlockable content through achievements.

That would be a luxury addition, but I see it as something that doesn't need balancing and lots of testing. Simply build it and it's there. A CW feature.

Possible? Impossible?

[Sandpit]

Lefty Lucy, on 19 August 2014 - 05:21 PM, said:

New players absolutely need more to get them into the game, however I also think that the ship has sailed long, long ago when they went to Open Beta, and then Launch without even a rudimentary new player experience.

I agree but the NPE HAS to improve if PGI truly wants MWO to grow

KOMMISSAR KITTY, on 19 August 2014 - 05:22 PM, said:

Make it so we an customize our mecjock and hang around at the Mercenary planet in a bar. Use it as the launching platform for the areas of space where your unit can drop. Have a seminar room where people can access terminals with a detailed history of the Inner Sphere, the culture and the mindset. I would say partner up with Catalyst for this and offer their products as a discount to those with premium time. Find a way so it's sweet for them beyond simply exposing the material to this gaming crowd, many of which have never seen the actual game.

That would add an extra tier of MC items and unlockable content through achievements.

That would be a luxury addition, but I see it as something that doesn't need balancing and lots of testing. Simply build it and it's there. A CW feature.

Possible? Impossible?

I'd love to see this game expanded into this area. I've also made suggestions regarding "pilot modules" that allow us to actually customize the piloting abilities to add a bit of an RPG element. What a lot forget is that the MechWarrior aspect of Battletech was actually the implementation of RPG to the game in giving players an actual character inside the mech itself to grow and progress with beyond a piloting and gunnery skill.