64 replies to this topic

[Malefleur]

Auto cannon 10 and 20 always rules!

[BrianMMXII]

PPC's are traditionally heavy(so on slow mechs), and have slow cool down, so I don't think you would see fields of "blue lightning". And if they are in abundance on your map, switch to a smaller mech, they are faster and harder to hit so you can get up on the heavy boys while they lumber and recharge their PPCs

Also machine guns were pimp back in the day, load up on em and get in close with a light fast mech and unload all at once, massive damage at short range, an ace up the sleeve if you will

[TerminatorII]

PPC's are ok..... but UAC20's make ppl rage so hard. If you can guage the timing between fire on the UAC20 in MW4 2 UAC20's could insta pop any mech with one volley (all 4 shots had to hit same spot.)

[Togg Bott]

or two salvos of dual LBX-20's

[DarkTreader]

Massed AC/2s, like a Mauler on crack. Long range sniping + knockback? Instant offset to the OpFor's mass of LRM boats.

I like the damage of a PPC, but I don't like the recharge on it. In MW4 stats, give me a LLas and 2 MLas, and I'll beat a PPC 9 times out of 10.

[Felbombling]

Righ, on 27 March 2012 - 07:54 PM, said:

Listen, PPCs are fricken awesome. Trust me, I've loved them since I first slammed one into a pirate Javelin's face.

This is a sickening plot on the part of the OP. First he said that PPCs are fantabo and that he loves them. Then he states that he wants 'everyone' to consider a variety of weapon systems other than the PPC...

Righ, on 27 March 2012 - 07:54 PM, said:

I'd like everyone to consider some alternatives to the classic Particle Projection Cannon, so that we can see some nice variety on the field.

Well played, friend, but you will not be the only Mech armed with the dreaded Particle Projection Cannon!!1!2!!

[Akundis]

I agree with some of the other points made in this thread...as long as PPC heat build-up and recharge rate is balanced properly they shouldn't been an issue. That said, I still expect to see them in droves on the battlefield, however I'm not to worried about them being overpowered. Each weapon has it's own strengths and weaknesses, you just need to learn to exploit them.

I really don't think a mech stacking PPC's in this game will be very successful compared to someone who has a well rounded loadout. They will have a great alpha strike, but will overheat extremely quickly and will not have anyway to defend themselves when the battle gets up close and personal.

[Wyzak]

Maybe the economic model would be such that weapons which are overused get progressively more expensive as the game goes on due to limited availability. Making, for example, SRM2s the most affordable might encourage people to develop new tactics until the economy balanced out or they earned enough for the "rare" weapon (which is only rare because of the demand.)

[SiriusBeef]

PPCs should only be a problem if your standing still or your facing a crack shot. The more realistic terrain should go a long way to keep this game from turning into a jump-snipe nightmare at 1000m. But only time will tell.

Additionally, as long as there is a mechanic that makes one shot kills impossible Assault PPC boats will not killing stuff with one shot... we went through all this back in MW4 Mercs PR1. The bottom line is that I hope this group is leveraging all the lessons from the past games including the work by mektek and NBT.

Edited by SiriusBeef, 28 March 2012 - 06:29 AM.

[MaddMaxx]

SiriusBeef, on 28 March 2012 - 06:23 AM, said:

PPCs should only be a problem if your standing still or your facing a crack shot. The more realistic terrain should go a long way to keep this game from turning into a jump-snipe nightmare at 1000m. But only time will tell.

Another MW4 misnomer. The PPC's max range is (18hexes x 30m) and the ERPPC's max is (23hexes x30m). Hopefully the actual ranges will be followed and you will have to poptart from ranges where the enemy can shoot back with effectiveness.

P.S. The PPC has a minmum range (3hexes x 30m)as well. None for the ERPPC sadly. If a knife fighter gets real close, the PPC gun bag may have more than HEAT to worry about.

[Togg Bott]

i carry a knife... its usually called a ac-20

[MaddMaxx]

Togg Bott, on 28 March 2012 - 06:37 AM, said:

i carry a knife... its usually called a ac-20

That would be classified more as a Machete'

[Trogusaur]

It has always been in the nature of Mechwarrior to overpower the big guns simply because it's so easy to abuse hills by alpha striking and running back for cover while recycling (hence, the rampant poptarting in MW4). I think that now every weapon won't have miraculously perfect accuracy, it will be a bit more difficult to effectively boat PPCs and Gauss Rifles. I just hope the lighter bore autocannons are given a purpose in this game.

Edited by Lord Trogus, 28 March 2012 - 06:56 AM.

[Ranger207]

If you compare stats, the AC/10 beats the PPC (at least in TT) for everything, if you include heat sinks and ammo. Of course, that's not counting the built-in heat sinks in th engine, or the possibility of an ammo explosion.

[Dickie Mckraut]

@ Lord Trogus I am pretty sure the lighter bore autocannons with there low recycle time will be great at rocking your enemys mech making there alpha strike almost useless

[Trogusaur]

Unfortunately, the UAC2 has never caused any degree of rocking, and none of the AC5 classes don't do quite enough to keep you from getting mauled anyway

Edited by Lord Trogus, 28 March 2012 - 07:26 AM.

[Xyph3r]

Adridos, on 28 March 2012 - 03:30 AM, said:

PPCs will simply have a disadvantage. Every weapons has its advantages as well as disadvantages.

PPCs build enormous heat, have slow travelling projectiles (so no hitting of lights) and the most you can have at once are three now.

3 PPCs.... well.. a friend of mine thought he´d melt me down with this combo, but after the second salvo he had to wait for cooldown and my AC´s blew him to pieces while he was bashing his override swich like playing Mortal Kombat and having heard "test your might" xD

[Rutok]

Another option for the Devs would be to implement something like "reactor power". If you look at a Mech "realistic" the reactor would produce a certain amount of energy. Some of that would be used to keep the basics running, something for moving, the rest could go to weapons.

So even without making that a visible stat ingame you could balance mass ppc, mass laser, even mass gauss rifles. There simply wouldnt be enough energy available to fire them all at once. I think i even read it in one of the books.. the guy simply couldnt fire both gauss rifles at once.. there was a delay between the shots.

Edited by Rutok, 28 March 2012 - 08:03 AM.

[Hodo]

I will always chose LRMs and AC5s over PPCs. Heat being the biggest factor. And then range being the second. I can stay out of range of most lighting gun PPCs, its only got a 18hex range (540m) vs the 21Hex range of the LRM (630m). And a SHD-2H backpeddles faster than most of the assaults run. And dont let me list the SHD-5M, it DESTROYS assaults.

[Fiaura The Tank Girl]

Beautiful Urban Warefare Twin Lance:

3 Ravens with Narcs, Tags, and Active Probes

4 Catapults with twin LRM 15's

1 Longbow with Quad LRM 20's


The cata's and LB sit outside the city and at a range where they can cover most of the city. They aim into artillery positions above the buildings.

Raven pilots call out when they tag and narc someone, Rain of DEATH!


PPC's are nice, I'll give them that. You always take your time aiming them for that money shot.

But, A blackhawk with 15 Meds and a rage on, will probably do just as well with the PPC and not have to worry near as much about heat with enough sinks, sack some armor to keep your speed.

Personally, the staple weapon of every mech is usually the med laser, 1 ton, 3 heat for 5 damage, same range as the heavy hitting AC/20. So you just it more as a guide shot for your hammer hits.

PPC is a wonderful direct fire, individual working weapon for those who wish to solo it, but if you look at it in a team aspect, look above.

Which would you rather have when everyone is screaming for urban environments or dense areas with lots of cover?

This game is designed around a concept of role warfare and role working together as a team.

If you all are packing the same weapons and your opponents come out with a balanced weapon load out, it keeps everyone off guard if you are being hit with multiple weapon systems that affect your mech differently. If they all do the same thing, it's easy to compensate, anticipate when to zig or zag to avoid the weapon because you can time it's recharge or reload time, and you just pack single hits that you hope go into the same place, if they don't you end up spreading out your damage, meaning your opponent stays alive.

If you reverse the idea and have variety of weapons, you opponent cannot time your recharge rates cause they're all different, cannot compensate for the variety of things going on, AC hits making his mech flinch, guass rifles that almost knock him down, PPC's that cause electronic disruption, machine guns that suddenly start getting criticals or SRMs and LRMs leaving streaks of smoke that obscure your sight, with laser beams that make you keep trying to find that weapon that is killing you.