81 replies to this topic

[Kaemon]

Lt Trevnor, on 03 April 2012 - 10:51 AM, said:

I would like to dual boot with bootcamp, but I cannot. This machine, while my only one, is primarily for composing music, and I need all that hard drive space for the files. I could get a external, which I have, but it's just for doing full backups. I'm to strapped for cash at the moment to spring for either a gaming machine or another external hard drive for to be able to boot camp this sucker....

Hopefully see what my tax return gives me. :S

One observation - if you have Firewire 800 (heck or even 400) you could go 60GB SSD drive and get windows 7 Home prem (at least 64 bit, so no basic).

the enclosure will throttle the SSD drive a bit (well actually a lot) but it should be fast enough (if you have decent RAM and aren't paging everything to disk).

So you're looking at about $250 (drive+enclosure+OS) total.

[Trevnor]

Kaemon, on 03 April 2012 - 11:22 AM, said:

One observation - if you have Firewire 800 (heck or even 400) you could go 60GB SSD drive and get windows 7 Home prem (at least 64 bit, so no basic).

the enclosure will throttle the SSD drive a bit (well actually a lot) but it should be fast enough (if you have decent RAM and aren't paging everything to disk).

So you're looking at about $250 (drive+enclosure+OS) total.

Hrm.... If only I could get 250 bucks to appear somewhere.... I'll look into it, but I'm hoping my tax return will provide enough money to just get a gaming rig up and running

[Thorn Hallis]

Nexus Trimean, on 03 April 2012 - 10:36 AM, said:

This Attitude does no one any good. More players the longer the game will last, no matter what the platform.

You wont recognize irony until you fall into it, eh?

[Catamount]

Nexus Trimean, on 03 April 2012 - 10:36 AM, said:

This Attitude does no one any good. More players the longer the game will last, no matter what the platform.

There is bootcamp and WINE for now, but i would hope that at some point PGI looks into developing a native mac client, There are lots of Gamers out there with Mac's

Are we defining half a dozen or so as "lots?"

Most Macs aren't even capable of gaming, and even those that are aren't capable of doing it well. Even if you take a Mac Pro and have it ship with two 5770s, that's only decent gaming performance, and that's $2800. A PC could do the same for somewhere in the ballpark of $700-$800. So really, two 5770s is actually pretty bad for such a machine, and I'd be highly surprised if more than about .05% of Apple users have $2800 desktops.

Edited by Catamount, 03 April 2012 - 02:14 PM.

[Nexus Trimean]

Unfortunately Hard Data is almost impossible to come by, but its more than a half dozen, Best guess Estimates on The number of Mac's that are used to play WoW is 6-12%, Blizzard does not release any solid statistics. Valve's Steam network was garnering approximately 5% sales to the Mac Platform in August of 2010.http://www.techradar...ow-5-mac-713013

Yes, a Purpose built gaming rig running windows will cost you less than a mac, there is no debate there, but still its ignoring a Growing share of the computing market, and not a decision I like or agree with. The Steriotype that you cant game on a mac isn't true, you can. Its just difficult to find developers and titles that are cross platform. Guess I'm just tired of people ignoring the other platform, Its not a majority, but its still more than percent.

Edited by Nexus Trimean, 03 April 2012 - 02:48 PM.

[Catamount]

WoW isn't an intensive game; It's an 8 year old title. Saying that a Mac can game because it can play WoW is tantamount to saying a Windows PC can game because it can play minesweeper.

As for Steam, have you seen the vast majority of Steam games for the Mac? Very few of them are remotely intensive, or require any kind of gaming computer.

MWO uses Cryengine 3. There is only one Mac on the entire market that can decently run that engine, and that's the Mac Pro, with at least one Radeon HD 5770 (in other words, a $2000+ setup). $1500+ Imacs are basically capable of running it badly.

There is no reason for PGI to do the work of trying to port a game with an inherently DirectX based engine over to the Mac OS just so the tiny minority of Mac users who own $2000+ Macs and play games, and somehow think a $100 copy of Windows is too much to buy after said $2000 Mac (really, that's probably like half a dozen people) can play the game.


If you can afford the price of hardware getting an Apple computer capable of playing any kind of games, then you can afford the $100 copy of Windows.There is nothing advantageous about PGI making a Mac client, and PGI is not going to do so.

[Nexus Trimean]

Catamount, on 03 April 2012 - 03:12 PM, said:

WoW isn't an intensive game; It's an 8 year old title. Saying that a Mac can game because it can play WoW is tantamount to saying a Windows PC can game because it can play minesweeper.

Nice Hyperbole, I was not attempting to use WoW as an example of Graphics capability, Only as a demonstration of Market share, Graphics Cards become outdated almost as fast as new ones are developed and all platforms continue to improve there baseline hardware, Treating any of the markets as static is wrong, the mac's graphics cards will improve right along with there windows counterparts so in a few months when the hardware is refreshed there will be better options.

There is an advantage to making a Mac Client, you have a wider audience, which means a greater revenue pool to draw from, granted there are risks involved in that, as committing assets to develop for both platforms is expensive.

No far as i have seen PGI wont develop for the Mac, but i really wish they would.

Edited by Nexus Trimean, 03 April 2012 - 03:30 PM.

[Catamount]

Nexus Trimean, on 03 April 2012 - 03:28 PM, said:

Nice Hyperbole, I was not attempting to use WoW as an example of Graphics capability, Only as a demonstration of Market share, Graphics Cards become outdated almost as fast as new ones are developed and all platforms continue to improve there baseline hardware, Treating any of the markets as static is wrong, the mac's graphics cards will improve right along with there windows counterparts so in a few months when the hardware is refreshed there will be better options.

There is an advantage to making a Mac Client, you have a wider audience, which means a greater revenue pool to draw from, granted there are risks involved in that, as committing assets to develop for both platforms is expensive.

No far as i have seen PGI wont develop for the Mac, but i really wish they would.

If you don't want WoW to be your example, then don't bring it up; as an example, it sucks.

Also, if you really think that suddenly, after years Macs sucking at gaming, that in a "few months" that's spontaneously going to change, your can hold your breath, but the rest of us know better.

You haven't offered a single compelling argument for PGI to make an OSX client. It doesn't open a broad audience, because most Macs can't play games, and there is no evidence, whatsoever, that that's going to change anytime soon. In fact, the notebook hardware is slated to get worse in this regard, not better, because Apple gave up using Kepler in order to use Intel integrated graphics.

There's also no reason for them to spend that money when the tiny minority of Mac gamers can just buy a copy of Windows. So you have a tiny minority of gamers who could even run Cryengine 3 who can spend a tiny addition to the premium they've already paid for Mac hardware in order to play MWO without PGI going through the hugely massive effort of remaking the engine to create an OpenGL version of the game.


That's fine that you "wish" PGI would develop a Mac client, as fine as it would be for me to wish that Hershey would release a pea soup flavored candy bar, but neither has a compelling argument in favor of such a thing happening.


We're just getting firmly into the territory of completely silly here

PGI knows what they're doing, and they have a good reason for not caring to release an OSX client.

Edited by Catamount, 03 April 2012 - 03:42 PM.

[Archtus]

Honestly, I don't see why Mac buyers think that game developers should rewrite their game to take Macs in as a 'potential player base'. You say you use it for sound processing[Music, jingles, whatever]. Point is, had you spent the same amount on a Desktop PC, you'd have commercial grade software plugged in to a compy that's at least twice as powerful as what you have now, and enough left over to pay your rent. You wouldn't be trying to claim some bogus MAC vs PC Discrimination "We're gamers too!". You chose to spend a lot of money on a shiny white box with a picture of a partially eaten apple on it.

For the price of the Mac Pro at it's baseline model[$2500], you can have an Alienware[I decided to compare "Buy the Name Brand" rigs] with twice the power, the space, and the ability to play PC games.

I feel no pity for you.

[T0RC4ED]

Catamount, on 03 April 2012 - 03:38 PM, said:

If you don't want WoW to be your example, then don't bring it up; as an example, it sucks.

There's also no reason for them to spend that money when the tiny minority of Mac gamers can just buy a copy of Windows. So you have a tiny minority of gamers who could even run Cryengine 3 who can spend a tiny addition to the premium they've already paid for Mac hardware in order to play MWO without PGI going through the hugely massive effort of remaking the engine to create an OpenGL version of the game.

This is so true...WOW athough a great sucess in MMOs because of Blizzard's huge playerbase of fanboys is, and let me make this all caps and bold CRAP! The graphics even on launch day were weak and even at max settings looked poor.

I would love to see an alternate version of most games(especially Mechwarrior online) so I could justify fully switching over to linux but saddly its not going to happen. Believe you me, switching to a lighter OS would give me10 times more horse power from my machines that are already blistering fast, but at the end of the day if i have to jump through an unusual number of hoops to make it happen, it just wont.

One final thought, Its nice to see a MAC that can beat my Desktop... YES folks, its real! Now for the real problem... It will run you 7,650 bucks and did i mention that i built my desktop at the beginning of 2010.

Edited by T0RC4ED, 03 April 2012 - 10:32 PM.

[Bloody Moon]

T0RC4ED, on 03 April 2012 - 10:24 PM, said:

One final thought, Its nice to see a MAC that can beat my Desktop... YES folks, its real! Now for the real problem... It will run you 7,650 bucks and did i mention that i built my desktop at the beginning of 2010.

Oh yeah, when i checked a few months ago from the price of a decent Mac that can be used for gaming i could've built the highest end built PC available in my country (gaming mouse, keyboard, joystick and 3 proper 24'' monitors and a Win7 included). It was rather amusing.

Btw shouldn't the mods lock this thread and point the OP towards the FAQ as per usual?

[Nexus Trimean]

You missed the point with the wow referance, It was about the Percentage of the Playerbase that uses Mac's, Not the graphics or the gameplay.

Wow boasts "11 million subscribers" purported percentage of players using mac's is 5%. thats a potential 500000 people who not likely give PGI a single cent.

Not that it matters its not my decision regardless.

Edited by Nexus Trimean, 03 April 2012 - 10:50 PM.

[T0RC4ED]

Bloody Moon, on 03 April 2012 - 10:44 PM, said:

Btw shouldn't the mods lock this thread and point the OP towards the FAQ as per usual?

Probably... but who knows, if a solid demand developes for a verson of the game to run outside of direct x im not going to cry about a thread being open. Especially with windows 8 comming out (looks horrible BTW) Im feeling open to swapping OSs, I just need the right nudge. A poll on some of the gaming forums and magazines would be a good idea to probe the MAC and Linux Market. Of course it could be like free ware on Linux with a 600 page set of instructions to install it ROFL (Gentoo anyone )

[sadamle]

Yeah just boot camp it. It's a shame you have to infect a mac with windows but it's worth it for MechWarrior. Keep it XP as well. My god the rest are just terrible.

Cheers

[Motionless]

Nexus Trimean, on 03 April 2012 - 03:28 PM, said:

mac's graphics cards will improve right along with there windows counterparts so in a few months when the hardware is refreshed there will be better options.

Macs improve their graphics cards along the same lines as competitors like Dell when looking at computers 1/2 to 2/3 the price of the mac. Neither of those would be that powerful in the graphics department, pretty much never even close to the top of the line - generally not the current generation.

And if we want to talk about opening your potential consumer base, I'm pretty sure the humble indie bundle has been reliably receiving more $$ from Linux users than Mac users.

Quote

Honestly, I don't see why Mac buyers think that game developers should rewrite their game to take Macs in as a 'potential player base'.

Rewrite the game? No, you're acting like the request is bigger than it is. Many mac users are asking devs to create software with cross-platforming in mind beforehand, they're not saying "please make games for microsoft windows and then re-do everything so now it works on mac OS."

[Archtus]

Motionless, on 03 April 2012 - 11:39 PM, said:

Rewrite the game? No, you're acting like the request is bigger than it is. Many mac users are asking devs to create software with cross-platforming in mind beforehand, they're not saying "please make games for microsoft windows and then re-do everything so now it works on mac OS."

True, But I'm going two days on little sleep. If I had all my faculties with me, I may have come to that conclusion... Possibly... Maybe... By 2112...

[LordDeathStrike]

Nexus Trimean, on 03 April 2012 - 10:36 AM, said:

This Attitude does no one any good. More players the longer the game will last, no matter what the platform.

There is bootcamp and WINE for now, but i would hope that at some point PGI looks into developing a native mac client, There are lots of Gamers out there with Mac's

paying 2-5x as much for hardware so you can boot camp game, does not make you a gamer, it just makes you a lame hipster....

Nexus Trimean, on 03 April 2012 - 02:47 PM, said:

Unfortunately Hard Data is almost impossible to come by, but its more than a half dozen, Best guess Estimates on The number of Mac's that are used to play WoW is 6-12%, Blizzard does not release any solid statistics. Valve's Steam network was garnering approximately 5% sales to the Mac Platform in August of 2010.http://www.techradar...ow-5-mac-713013

Yes, a Purpose built gaming rig running windows will cost you less than a mac, there is no debate there, but still its ignoring a Growing share of the computing market, and not a decision I like or agree with. The Steriotype that you cant game on a mac isn't true, you can. Its just difficult to find developers and titles that are cross platform. Guess I'm just tired of people ignoring the other platform, Its not a majority, but its still more than percent.

wow runs on pads like the imac, doesnt count as a game.

starcraft 2 = a game
mwo = a game
mass effect = a game
wow = a ****

[Motionless]

LordDeathStrike, on 03 April 2012 - 11:56 PM, said:

wow runs on pads like the imac, doesnt count as a game.

starcraft 2 = a game

SC2 and WoW both take like nothing to run, and the very minimum is similar for both. An iMac could easily handle SC2.

[Archtus]

Motionless, on 04 April 2012 - 12:01 AM, said:

SC2 and WoW both take like nothing to run, and the very minimum is similar for both. An iMac could easily handle SC2.

An iMac can barely handle my taxes... I like doing my yearly crash-my-girlfriend's-computer test.

[Catamount]

Nexus Trimean, on 03 April 2012 - 10:47 PM, said:

You missed the point with the wow referance, It was about the Percentage of the Playerbase that uses Mac's, Not the graphics or the gameplay.

Wow boasts "11 million subscribers" purported percentage of players using mac's is 5%. thats a potential 500000 people who not likely give PGI a single cent.

Not that it matters its not my decision regardless.

I think you're missing the point.

The only reason Mac users comprise any fraction of WoW players, whatsoever, is because there are a significant number of Macs that can run WoW in the first place, because it's an ancient engine. I knew people who used to run the game smoothly on Geforce 4 and Radeon 9000 series cards.

We're not bringing up graphical intensity for no reason.

There is no reason, whatsoever, to believe there's any significant player base who can play a game that is graphically intense within the Mac community even remotely well, but can't afford a $100 copy of Windows.

Motionless, on 03 April 2012 - 11:39 PM, said:

Rewrite the game? No, you're acting like the request is bigger than it is. Many mac users are asking devs to create software with cross-platforming in mind beforehand, they're not saying "please make games for microsoft windows and then re-do everything so now it works on mac OS."

Unless I'm missing something, wouldn't that require using an entirely different engine?

Cryengine 3 just does not support OpenGL, so going so cross platform would be a huge decision that would require revolving numerous technical decision around it, instead of revolving those decisions around getting out the best looking game on the engine that they find best to code for.

Edited by Catamount, 04 April 2012 - 02:37 AM.