23 replies to this topic

[Chuggernaut]

Melcyna, on 25 October 2012 - 11:10 PM, said:

Which technically makes no sense as anything they use to construct the armor is a knowledge that in turn will allow the weapon to defeat the armor itself, and since EVERYONE knows the armor, it logically entailed that the weapons tech that everyone knows would've been able to cope with the armor as well, pound per pound.

This is why exact armor composition and formula for materials are often classified information in the military.

BT's logical fallacy in this then manifested itself in the form of melee and other type of collision between mech where we're given a showcase of mech somehow destroying another mech by ramming them with their fist, leg, etc or melee instruments, all these despite the fact that when calculated based on the mass of the mech or the limb or the weapon, we quickly find out that based on the theoretical energy the armor is supposed to be capable of withstanding, it shouldn't have been damaged much at all by said collision.

I think the final response by the devs when people started figuring out how many joules of energy one point of armor absorbed was "Stop. Just... please stop. We'll declare the armor magic if we have to. Just stop."

[Psylico]

Modern ceramic body armor can withstand multiple hits of 7.62x51 which is considered a pretty high caliber for a combat rifle. However, if a plate of ceramic armor is dropped on its edge from chest height it can shatter. When talking about battlemech armor, we need to keep in mind that even though plates might be able to take direct gauss rounds, they might be vulnerable to damage an obscure melee hit could produce, especially since some armor such as ferrofibrous is crystaline in nature.

Edited by Psylico, 26 October 2012 - 06:53 AM.

[Vandul]

This isnt Modern Whorefare.

Ease your mind. Just think of it as an alternate universe where smart weapons arent. Basically a couple generations removed from steam punk, but with fusion reactors.

UBAIGHT

[Melcyna]

Psylico, on 26 October 2012 - 06:52 AM, said:

Modern ceramic body armor can withstand multiple hits of 7.62x51 which is considered a pretty high caliber for a combat rifle. However, if a plate of ceramic armor is dropped on its edge from chest height it can shatter. When talking about battlemech armor, we need to keep in mind that even though plates might be able to take direct gauss rounds, they might be vulnerable to damage an obscure melee hit could produce, especially since some armor such as ferrofibrous is crystaline in nature.

What you are referring was the early generation SAPI insert plates for military body armor... (we're already using the subsequent improved version) the insert plates had NUMEROUS problem. It would break when dropped, they were heavy as all hell, and most importantly... they can only withstand one direct hit from a 7.62mm warsaw round or equivalent before breaking or losing integrity.

So the plate inserts essentially can withstand ONE impact be it from a bullet or if you simply drop the plate...

The plates have been subsequently replaced with the improved version that aside of being resistant to damage on the field from drop, was also capable of retaining it's integrity from more than one direct hit with typical 7.62 warsaw rounds.

See the problem there?

The original plate they used essentially can only withstand ONE impact, be it from a bullet or from a drop. The subsequent improved version? was capable of withstanding multiple impact and also from a drop.

Now correlate that to BT and you start seeing the problem...

Unlike an insert plate where it's performance is CONSISTENT, BT armor behaves in a contradictory fashion... it can withstand MULTIPLE direct hit from multi hundred MJ projectiles and energy transfer. But it caves from a single direct hit of comparatively much lower velocity and energy impact.

The problem also goes two fold, because in the case of soldier body armor, even though it was flawed in the first generation insert plate and can break from a drop impact, enemies cannot realistically make use of that weakness per say since anything that can emulate such impact isn't gonna have a good range or easily applied for combat that will remain practical for a soldier. The weakness of the armor was only a real problem in that the armor is likely to break BEFORE it absorbs a hit from the enemy.

But in BT where we're talking about giant war machines the size of a building and with combat taking place in LUDICROUSLY short range, weakness to such impact CAN, and WILL be exploited... since with the size of the combatant involved at battlemech scales, we have a plethora of options to emulate the impact force (which we don't have at infantry scale)

This last problem is the biggest one... if the armor is crystalline in nature for example, and can be broken from roughly a shockwave or wide pressure type force, then technically we could just apply explosives right on the surface of the armor in even fashion and detonate it to achieve the necessary effect to shatter it into pieces. Or alternatively detonate a fuel air bomb nearby it... either will do the job, and we happen to have PLENTY of both (though we consider HESH outdated nowadays since they are only useful against bunkers and modern MBTs are immune to them).

Edited by Melcyna, 26 October 2012 - 07:58 AM.