115 replies to this topic

[Sprouticus]

1) C-Bills (purchase mechs and repairs, refits/customization)
2) Skins- eventually I see unit skins being allowed
3) pemium non combat effective stuff (hula girls)
4) Accelerated XP- I believe WoT does this, and Im guessing it will be in MWO as well
5) Units- special unit names (known merc units, elite IS units) can be sold to groups. Its just a name, no effoect on combat
Thats all they really NEED to have, each of these will bring in money for the publisher. It brings actual value to introducing new mech (pays for the artists paycheck). XP is a meta game function.

C-Bills, same thing.

Non combat swag only matters to the player.

Skins and unit..again no effect on combat.

You could reserve some of the really elite units as rewards, etc.

[DarkBazerker]

you had me at hula girls

[Five by Five]

Sprouticus, on 29 March 2012 - 07:07 PM, said:

5) Units- special unit names (known merc units, elite IS units) can be sold to groups. Its just a name, no effoect on combat
Thats all they really NEED to have, each of these will bring in money for the publisher. It brings actual value to introducing new mech (pays for the artists paycheck). XP is a meta game function.

I forgot about that. Specialized unit name are definitely not penny ante. Those may need to go up for auction, I could see some of the good names going for well over well over a hundred bucks.

[Pvt Dancer]

mwhighlander, on 29 March 2012 - 11:42 AM, said:

Sounds like a bad idea. That really gets close to "buying power" which is something the team really wants to avoid at all costs and for good reason. It will make those who do not have such accounts feel inadequate in having to work even harder to keep up with someone who did shell out money.

Wait, what? Why do you feel you have to keep up with anyone? Who is there to keep up with? With that mentality, no one will play after the first hour of launch because they will never 'keep up'. You gain experience as you play. Paying to earn more experience and/or cash does not mean you can buy anything /better/ then that free player, you just get there sooner. I am a free player on WoTs, the tanks I play, for their tier, are just as good (or bad) as any Premium player's tank (barring gold tanks). Those Premium players have possibly higher tier, or it took them less time to get to the same tier as me, but as long as they didn't buy their tank of that tier, they earned being there as much as I have. If anything, /I/ am the better player because I have more matches under my belt to get where I am.

mwhighlander, on 29 March 2012 - 11:42 AM, said:

Its a little different than just shelling out money at one go to purchase a new 'mech as opposing to blatantly earning x amount more money or xp every game.

World of Tanks does both. That is the mistake WoTs actually made is the Gold Tanks and Gold ammo. This game, from what we have been told, is not going to repeat those mistakes. You can't get certain mechs with only real money, nor can you only get equipment with real cash.

[verybad]

Rambo Calrissian, on 29 March 2012 - 12:36 PM, said:

Then it wouldn't really be a free2play title.
Also they would lose millions of potential players by doing that.

I'm glad, that in one interview the devs said:
"You won't be able to buy your dominance on the battle field."

If those potential players aren't spending money, then they're not paying for the production of the game, which is undoubtedly millions of dollars. They can still play the game and the free content however. Just not all the stuff.

Free to play means exacly that. It's free to play, not free to get all the toys that are available to it. Cosmetics aren't going to pay for the game,

You are't gonna have everything available for free, at least not without a grind for Cbills to pay for it.

They already said that you won't be able to buy experience points/ training, and that you won't be able to buy skill. They didn't say equipment other than modules would be available for cbills only.

I'm sure the people in Piranha are fans of the game, but it's a bit ridiculous to believe that they're building the game and expecting to take a loss on it because of the goodness of their hearts. I'm not considering making a profit on the game a negative thing at all, it's to be expected.

You don't build a big game development company by giving away charity. There will be some free content, but most will have to be purchased. That's how F2P works. It's a business model that works this way. It's completely reasonable, if you want something, you can buy it, or you can grind for it. Grinding takes a while.

Think of it like getting a set of earings for your girlfriend. If you know the jewler, but are broke, you might offer to trim their lawn for a few weeks to get those earings. Or if you've got the money, you buy those earings. Either way you get the earings.

[Alessan]

This is something that has concerned me since I heard of the plan to go free to play. I WANT the company to make money on this, because it means they will keep it running and keep putting out material, but I worry about what will qualify as "Not buying power."

What I want to see is that Everything, mechs, equipment, even extra bays, CAN be unlocked in game, either through play time or C-bills. From there you can also spend real money on things like a new chassis, a new mechbay, more equipment (I'm okay with buying slightly improved equipment, as long as it can still be earned in game) and C-bills. If everything in game can be bought with C-bills, then the ability to buy C-bills with real money works well and allows for a very deliberate exchange rate to be established.

Now, some things that are okay for pay but cannot be earned: Cosmetics. As long as it doesn't have an impact on gameplay, I'm fine with getting only basics for free, and paying for the fancy stuff. Decorations for the cockpit? Sign me up. New paint schemes? Absolutely. Painting sharks on my LRMs, yes please. There are a lot of cosmetic options that could be real money only, without unbalancing gameplay. The biggest advantage I would be okay with real money purchasing is a paint scheme that serves as better visual camouflage than the others in certain terrain.

[StandingCow]

Agreed with Alessan... but I think to make money they are going to have to offer something that will keep steady money rolling in, like a month of slightly increased xp or increased C-Bills (like WOT with their premium service).

[TopDawg]

It's kind of a tricky business figuring out what to charge for, what not to, and how much to charge. They've continually stated that they have no intention of, and really want to avoid, allowing people to buy skill over others. At the very least, that seems to imply there will be no purchase-only items. At the very best it will prevent outright purchasing of 'Mechs or weapon systems (which may not be entire feasible, as stated below - but I hope it would be something cheap for these, maybe $1 a weapon and $5 a 'Mech or something along those lines).

I tend to be a pretty competitive player, and absolutely abhor advantages that are gained through purchases, as opposed to through skill and knowledge. With that said, I understand that as a F2P model they need to be able to make money. Assuming I enjoy the game (along with however many I can drag along with me) and the game is good, I certainly want to reward the developers/company for their hard (and successful) work.

From a competitive standpoint (and sorry for potentially derailing the thread slightly, but game balance kind of ties directly into the pay model), and for the well being and longevity of the game in general, it is certainly in the game's best interest to not allow any kind of 'real' advantage over others to be gained simply by spending money. I also have mixed feelings about the skill trees, although we know very little about any real advantages they confer in game yet (at least I haven't seen much about them anyway - help if you have! lol).

Personally speaking, I would be willing to spend money for custom designs/logos, colors, custom paint schemes, perhaps even exp boosters since I don't quite have as much time to play games as I used to, extra 'Mech bays, and likely a few other things escaping me right now. Things I really don't want to see implemented on a pay scheme (or just in general, actually): modifying critical hard points that allows different/better modifications (paid for or otherwise, the winner shouldn't really be based on what 'level' the player is, at least hopefully to a large degree anyway (and perhaps excluding commanders from this rubric)), auctioning off specific/cannon names (sorry, no offense), equipment with better stats over other equipment, and miscellaneous other things in that vein.

The truth is we just don't know enough about the game yet to really speculate accurately about the game and its potential pay model (and indeed the devs may not at this point either), but considering they're fans of the IP and gamers at heart (and based on their posts), I have quite a bit of faith in their decisions and desires to make a fun, balanced, enjoyable game. Hopefully if they pull it off, the playerbase will be willing to support their continued development and efforts.

[Arnold Carns]

Opus, on 29 March 2012 - 01:33 PM, said:

Hula Girl: $1.99
Fuzzy Dice: $1.99
Death to Paul HUD Display: $ F'ing Priceless

"There are some things, C-Bills can't buy...
For everything else, there's the Battlemaster Card!"

[Volthorne]

Spiral Knights, TF2 and LoL all have brilliant payment systems in place for their respective play-styles. In SK, you can buy more energy (which is a must, eventually) with real money, or you can grind enough in-game currency to buy it, granted that most people will pick the real-money option because it's faster. In TF2, you can collect weapons and gear randomly, and then forge them into the item you want, or you can buy it directly from the store. In LoL, you can buy champs directly with real-money, but also with in-game currency (and skins for your champs, but only with real-money, and they don't even do anything).

Each of these three games does what a micro-transaction system should be doing: raking in money. But they also have a way for free players to have the same equipment, characters, stats, whatever! The trick is to balance out how much hype you can generate on cosmetics or faster buying of items, while still keeping the free players up-to-speed overall.

[Titus Pullo XIII]

Just have to add -- STO does a decent job but paying ~$10-$15 for a new costume is a bit steep. The fact that I have to walk into Target/Best Buy, pick up a small card with half-nekkid elf chicks and take that thing up to the register...? Yeah, that's a bit much.

[EDMW CSN]

I could do with a nice luminous dice in my cockpit.
But the real money maker is in the hangar bays. Selling hangar space is definitely a good way to earn money if there are limited spots for hangars.

Similarly for tonnage. Maybe a free player can stow away 100 tons of equipment (equipment on mechs dont count to the limit) so if the person is a real hoarder for trinkets or shiny clantech, he need to pay more for the storage space.

Edited by [EDMW]CSN, 30 March 2012 - 02:31 AM.

[Sylow]

[EDMW]CSN, on 30 March 2012 - 02:28 AM, said:

I could do with a nice luminous dice in my cockpit.
But the real money maker is in the hangar bays. Selling hangar space is definitely a good way to earn money if there are limited spots for hangars.

Similarly for tonnage. Maybe a free player can stow away 100 tons of equipment (equipment on mechs dont count to the limit) so if the person is a real hoarder for trinkets or shiny clantech, he need to pay more for the storage space.

Yea, something like that. If the game at some time has 30 mechs and 5 variants to each of them and somebody wants to have all of them available all of the time: let him buy that. He'll still be in one mech at a time. The very same thing applies for equipment storage, if somebody wants to have several weapons spare in case of emergency, let him buy the storage space.

I personally am quite likely to buy:
- A specific paintjob. Let my mech look cool. (Or several paintjobs, for several mechs. )
- The Hula Girl. Or stuff like that.
- The ComStar Logo on my Mech.
- Due to limited time (job's eating up way too much of it), probably some XP boosters.

On the last one, i simply differ: I'd never want to see the "gold" crap of WoT. Increased damage per shot is nothing else but winning by shooting money at the enemy. So, even if i'd be 97% better than the guy i just fight against, he'll win if he pays for double damage. A gamebreaker. But i don't mind XP boosts, as long as matchmaking works properly.

After all, XP boosts matter the most in two cases:
1. The game is very fresh on the market.
2. You joined late and want to catch up to the league of your friends fast.

In the first case, who cares if somebody has the highest XP ranks after a week because he was online 15 hours a day for 7 days in a row, or if he spend 4 hours per evening on the same week but boosted his XP rating? They both will hit XP cap for their mech and their chosen role within limited time and other players will manage to catch up to them soon enough. (Sure, they might use the time to also cap another role, but they still can't be scout-assault-defence-commander at once, since module slots won't miraculously become more... )

Thus the first case is no issue, except that a few people who invest both time and money can claim to be the first to cap their XP. As long as matchmaking works, it has no influence on regular gameplay and won't spoil other peoples games.

The second case is what i expect to see more often in the long run. This can either be that somebody finally, after hearing how great MWO actually is, signs up to play with his friends who already are a bit higher up or it can be that somebody, due to reorganizing the structure of their regiment, needs to be able to fill another role quickly. (Read like for example: "Hey, both our regular scouts are on vacation, and now we got challenged for this weekend. So, somebody grab some XP boosters and become a scout till then." )

Again, as long as matchmaking works, this will be no issue for regular gameplay.

td;dr:
I want my ComStar paintjob and my very personal Hula Girl.

[Verithrax]

Buying your weapons and mech for real cash is fine with me remember mechs are expensive pilots are expendable.
I also wish they would do a hardcore match 12 vs 12 winner's takes all salvage and loser walks home with nada.

[AlanEsh]

five by five, on 29 March 2012 - 03:39 PM, said:

8) Again,... all things are destroyable and potentially salvagable. Lose your mech but your team wins, you get to salvage your mech (unless it was completely destroyed). Lose your mech but your team loses the field, you lose your mech. A buck or two gets you a new one, or your House (or merc unit depending on the particular unit's rules) assigns you another mech. Your team loses the field, but you withdraw, hey you get to keep your mech!

I am REALLY glad you aren't on the dev team, and that they've already stated you never lose your mechs. If they get destroyed in battle, you pay cbills to repair them.

[Rambo Calrissian]

verybad, on 29 March 2012 - 11:21 PM, said:

If those potential players aren't spending money, then they're not paying for the production of the game, which is undoubtedly millions of dollars. They can still play the game and the free content however. Just not all the stuff.
...
I'm sure the people in Piranha are fans of the game, but it's a bit ridiculous to believe that they're building the game and expecting to take a loss on it because of the goodness of their hearts. I'm not considering making a profit on the game a negative thing at all, it's to be expected.

You don't build a big game development company by giving away charity. There will be some free content, but most will have to be purchased. That's how F2P works. It's a business model that works this way. It's completely reasonable, if you want something, you can buy it, or you can grind for it. Grinding takes a while.

Well .. grinding is ok (as long as it's not too slow or too expensive to "buy progress"). Exclusive game changing content, which HAS to be bought, is not.

League of Legends for example only lets you pay for faster progress and skins. Yet it's one of the most successful free2play titles ever. I don't know how many millions they already made, but hosting a tournament and giving out the biggest price pool in the history of eSports (5 million dollar) speaks a clear language.

Or farmville (afaik also lets you pay for faster progress):
http://dealbook.nyti...llion-in-i-p-o/

And then there is stuff like angry birds, which make more money than most games you can buy just with those little ads.
http://techcrunch.co...on-advertising/

verybad, on 29 March 2012 - 11:21 PM, said:

Free to play means exacly that. It's free to play, not free to get all the toys that are available to it. Cosmetics aren't going to pay for the game,

What you are talking about is basically one free2play title and one pay2play title. Both is totally fine, but if you mix them, the free2play model will totally lose its appeal and it will morph into a pay2win title.



MWO will generate more money, if it's a real free2play title. As soon as it's pay2win, it becomes uninteresting for most potential players.

Edited by Rambo Calrissian, 30 March 2012 - 06:20 AM.

[Nick Makiaveli]

Rambo Calrissian, on 30 March 2012 - 06:06 AM, said:

MWO will generate more money, if it's a real free2play title. As soon as it's pay2win, it becomes uninteresting for most potential players.

Count me as one of those potential players. Pay2Win is like an auction except you actually pay every time you bid. So even if you lose, you are out cash.

If MWO is as fun to play as I hope it is, then I will slowly over time cough up some cash for things like mechbays etc. Probably say WTH to spending a buck on a logo no one but me will ever see on my mech, that sort of thing. But if it goes down the WoT path, then I won't be playing at all. I loved playing it, but it's not F2P. F2GBU is more like it. (Free 2 Get Blown Up).

[Max Grayson]

I hope the dev's balance the f2p system by considering micro payments as "time". For example everything sold via the f2p system should eventually be obtained in the game via grinding (just not as long a grind as a standard account in WoT), excluding cosmetics and custom designs which is an obvious money maker.

Purschasing C-bills or Mechs with real cash should save people TIME. its the classic agrument between the school kids and people with excess time on there hands versus people with real life responisbilities that are unable to spend 10 to 23 hours a day playing the game.

The players with rl time requirements want to be able to play with the same mech's and equipment that uber power grinders have without the need to wait days, weeks, or months to obtain

I would just like to end the "you need to earn your gear in game" argument right now.

1) I Earn money and Respect at work
2) Games are for fun and relaxation

After a long days work and family obligations i hope to jump into the same mech that the uber grinder has and battle it out and let the skill of the pilot determine the outcome.

Thats how I hope the F2P system works

Edited by Max Grayson, 30 March 2012 - 07:56 AM.

[Cochise]

My experience with f2p is that you can buy items faster than acuire them through experience or buy luxuries. This willl probably **** some people off, but I would rather take the time to acquire things than buy them and it's fine with me if someone has them first. Others won't like this. But ultimately, it will probably be a blend of things to balance things out. I'm sure they're giving this issue a great deal of thought because it is pivotal to the games success.

However it works, unless it is completely broken, I will generally accept if the game mechanics, physics, maps, atmosphere, models, gameplay, sound effects, graphics are all good and fun.

I think the physics, player controls, damage and atmosphere which compose elements of everthing are going to be the harder part tbh.

[Nick Makiaveli]

Max Grayson, on 30 March 2012 - 07:51 AM, said:

I hope the dev's balance the f2p system by considering micro payments as "time". For example everything sold via the f2p system should eventually be obtained in the game via grinding (just not as long a grind as a standard account in WoT), excluding cosmetics and custom designs which is an obvious money maker.

Purschasing C-bills or Mechs with real cash should save people TIME. its the classic agrument between the school kids and people with excess time on there hands versus people with real life responisbilities that are unable to spend 10 to 23 hours a day playing the game.

The players with rl time requirements want to be able to play with the same mech's and equipment that uber power grinders have without the need to wait days, weeks, or months to obtain

I would just like to end the "you need to earn your gear in game" argument right now.

1) I Earn money and Respect at work
2) Games are for fun and relaxation

After a long days work and family obligations i hope to jump into the same mech that the uber grinder has and battle it out and let the skill of the pilot determine the outcome.

Thats how I hope the F2P system works

Wait I'm supposed to get Respect as well as money at work!! Sunnavabish....wait till Monday!!!!

Seriously, I work for the city, so it ain't happening.

Ok, ok OT: I have no problem with this, as long as they don't make it literally years to earn today's best gear. Take DDO. You would have to max out each and every character slot not only in level, but reputation with EVERY faction on each and every one of the servers to unlock all the options on ONE server. Read that again, max out all the free slots, on every server, with every single faction in the game.

That and the game play was grindy to begin with so it just wasn't fun to me anyway. Not gonna pay to grind. Something like MWO, where it looks like just playing will be fun, I see no problem with spending a little cash to speed up the process, or grab some extra c-bills etc.