132 replies to this topic

[DirePhoenix]

Cel, on 27 October 2012 - 10:38 AM, said:

"why is the Japanese flag on a Chinese mech?"

Guess I'll have to repeat this because you missed it the first time...

DirePhoenix, on 27 October 2012 - 12:40 AM, said:

Except it's not a Chinese 'Mech. And even if you're trying to argue that the Cappellan Confederation is Space China, it's still not even a Cappellan 'mech. It's a FedSun 'mech. The only Cappellan plant that made Centurions was on Ramen II, but that was wiped out in 2845 during the second Succession War. Centurions are all made on New Avalon or on Panpour, both pretty solidly FedSun worlds.

So really, this 'mech is a Davion machine piloted by a Davion double-agent who painted a Japanese sunburst on it and called it by a Chinese name. And no one in the Battletech Universe seems to have ever had a problem with that.

Yankee Doodle stuck a feather in his hat and called it macaroni...

[Cthulhufish]

Once again, because people can't seem to keep these things straight:

It's still 2012. People making fictional stuff in 2012 should be held accountable on 2012 grounds, regardless of where the work is set.

Accurate portrayals of history being the notable exception, but it's not a blanket exception, either.

Left-offset rising sun = Japanese naval ensign (200 years old and still in use). The YLW is not a ship.
Centered rising sun = Imperial Japanese Army's war flag: The worst Japanese flag you could pick, as it went out of use at the end of WWII.
Centered rising sun with gold border = JSDF's flag.

The YLW is a House Davion (space-British) mech. Not Liao or Kurita. Yes, a fair number of people assume it's a Kurita mech when they see the paint scheme, because it's decorated with a prominent Japanese naval ensign (very recognizable image).

[Cel]

DirePhoenix, on 27 October 2012 - 12:26 PM, said:

Guess I'll have to repeat this because you missed it the first time...




Yankee Doodle stuck a feather in his hat and called it macaroni...

I don't care what your nerdy lore says.

[Taiji]

Paul Inouye, on 26 October 2012 - 01:53 PM, said:

You guys are driving me nuts.

The paint scheme on Yen-Lo Wang is a CANON paint scheme. We did not mistakenly stick a somewhat Japanese related emblem on a Chinese named Mech. We just kept the color from the stories/miniatures/trading cards/TT etc etc etc.

And before you start waiving your torches around, we will be releasing some new info on the other hot topics. This one was personally grating on me.... so there!

- Paul


BTW: I am Japanese and am very well aware of the slight oversight of the original design but we kept it since it was canon.

Not so happy now the shoe is on the other troll huh?

[DirePhoenix]

Hey guys, does anyone mind if I paint my Chevrolet (American car company) Monte Carlo (named after a city in Monaco) in the colors and theme of the Mondragon coat of arms and call it "Quetzalcoatl"? Or would I have to issue an apology statement to all the descendants of the indigenous peoples of Central America?

EDIT: Also the people of Spain.

Also Also, I'll be using this vehicle in a demolition derby where I am sure to earn fame and notoriety and get recruited into the Mexican Secret Service, where they will no doubt be taken by surprise when I reveal myself as a US CIA double-agent and run away with their hottest Telemundo soap opera stars.

Edited by DirePhoenix, 27 October 2012 - 01:37 PM.

[paladin yst]

Quote

You guys are driving me nuts.

The paint scheme on Yen-Lo Wang is a CANON paint scheme. We did not mistakenly stick a somewhat Japanese related emblem on a Chinese named Mech. We just kept the color from the stories/miniatures/trading cards/TT etc etc etc.

And before you start waiving your torches around, we will be releasing some new info on the other hot topics. This one was personally grating on me.... so there!

- Paul


BTW: I am Japanese and am very well aware of the slight oversight of the original design but we kept it since it was canon.

I understand your frustrations, perhaps make some slight adjustment, put the whole rising sun symbol on the arm instead? and maybe a few symbols of the affiliated factions, solaris symbols somewhere more visible.

It will still make it totally a yen lo wang, cept this will alienate less gamers. By all means keep the symbol, just put it somewhere less visible BUT still there coz its cannon. So when ure promoting yen lo wang it gives a different feel, right now its like slamming (fill in the blanks) to someone who might find it not cool.

The best spot might yet be the shield, I know the painting look cool and all but it doesnt look that nice to have such a huge coverage. Shield, arm or center torso is a good spot, plenty of colors to put on the other areas for customization, those who like it can leave the color white to make the flag stands out, can customize to suit their taste.

Quote

Hey guys, does anyone mind if I paint my Chevrolet (American car company) Monte Carlo (named after a city in Monaco) in the colors and theme of the Mondragon coat of arms and call it "Quetzalcoatl"? Or would I have to issue an apology statement to all the descendants of the indigenous peoples of Central America?

Nah no need to do such a complicated thing, just paint a huge al qeada symbol ur american car, and spray paint i love and enjoyed 911 and drive it around, why target a dif amount of ppl lol, that flag targets 1.4 bil ppl + the entire population of korea + vietnam + indonesia + malaysia + singapore + + + many others, its only around 2-3 bil ppl lol, your example should at least cover the entire pop of us, i mean its still a small place with not even 1/3 of a bil

Edited by paladin yst, 27 October 2012 - 01:41 PM.

[Kaijin]

Kristov Kerensky, on 26 October 2012 - 11:05 PM, said:

I read it, including your own post, which I know you meant to point to, but so what? YOU want to make an issue out of something that isn't an issue.

It's NOT a Chinese Mech, there are NO Chinese Mechs, that country does NOT exist in the BTech Universe and that Mech is NEVER referred to in the lore as 'the Chinese Mech', it's referred to as a Liao or Corporate Mech..not once as the Chinese one.

Some of you want to create an issue about this...I really gotta wonder...why?

Just as Star Trek has it's cultural analogies, so too does BattleTech. The Liao faction has a strong Chinese cultural connection, just as Kurita has a Japanese one, and Steiner has a German one. It can't be denied.

Edited by Kaijin, 27 October 2012 - 01:32 PM.

[KharnZor]

Paul Inouye, on 26 October 2012 - 01:53 PM, said:

You guys are driving me nuts.

The paint scheme on Yen-Lo Wang is a CANON paint scheme. We did not mistakenly stick a somewhat Japanese related emblem on a Chinese named Mech. We just kept the color from the stories/miniatures/trading cards/TT etc etc etc.

And before you start waiving your torches around, we will be releasing some new info on the other hot topics. This one was personally grating on me.... so there!

- Paul


BTW: I am Japanese and am very well aware of the slight oversight of the original design but we kept it since it was canon.

Now thats sorted out all you got to do is tame the drama queens who are screaming P2W.
You got to do it paul, i died for you once (when you came into a game to show everyone the founders cat and all they wanted to do was blow it up) so you owe me lolz

[Leeroy Mechkins]

From da Brian Ekman thread:
Zeitler, on 26 October 2012 - 07:39 PM, said:

In terms of custom decals, what will the restrictions be in terms of us uploading out own images to use for them?


Most likely the typical stuff, no offensive, religious, or copyrighted materials.

LOLs!
Players! Don't you dare use offensive decals or paint schemes!
That's the PGI Art Department's job, we wanna **** off our customers ourselves, not let the players do it.
No swastikas please, that's premium content, MWO will put it on the next hero mech.

Edited by Leeroy Mechkins, 27 October 2012 - 11:14 PM.

[Kobold]

This whole conversation is crazy to me. You really think people will give a crap about this? Whatever tiny percentage of Chinese/Korean/etc gamers actually have an interest in BT/MW, they likely have already gotten over the whole "Space China"/"Space Japan" aspect of the setting years ago.

[pursang]

Cel, on 27 October 2012 - 01:06 AM, said:

I'm not the one who refuses to play with easily offended people, which includes the entirety of this planet.

That's a negative on that one Ghostrider - since I'm not easily offended at all. I also know quite a few people who are not easily offended.

Try harder next time.

Kaijin, on 27 October 2012 - 01:30 PM, said:

Just as Star Trek has it's cultural analogies, so too does BattleTech. The Liao faction has a strong Chinese cultural connection, just as Kurita has a Japanese one, and Steiner has a German one. It can't be denied.

North America has a strong Anglo-Saxon cultural connection - does that make all North Americans Anglo-Saxon?

Hint: It does not.

Edited by pursang, 28 October 2012 - 01:01 AM.

[Fl3tcher]

I read this entire thread, and was just about to join in with the rage when suddenly I realised that it's about somthing that's just pixels based on something from a book belonging to a boardgame that's almost 30 years old.

It's like saying that all German Shepherd dogs must be destroyed because a certain Austrian painter turned dictator of Germany with a toothbrush moustache owned two as pets.

I'm sorry, but this is ridiculous . .

It's like calling a mech painted in the Stars and Stripes "The Winston Churchill" or a mech painted with the Union Jack "The George Washington"

Perspective is required, as is a reality check I think.

[MCXL]

Man this thread got CLEANSED. It was like 25 pages before!

I'm a bit peeved that my post outlining all the great minds talking about offensive material was part of the wipe, but its cool I guess, things got pretty heated over that stretch, or something.

Anyhow I'm gonna go ahead and post some quotes from, pretty smart people from all sorts of political and cultural ideology, about this stuff again, and my thoughts on the actions of some particular forum members.

Quote

"What is freedom of expression? Without the freedom to offend, it ceases to exist."

-Salman Rushdie

Quote

"Be careful that what you write does not offend anybody or cause problems within the company. The safest approach is to remove all useful information."

-Scott Adams

Quote

"If all printers were determined not to print anything till they were sure it would offend nobody, there would be very little printed."

-Benjamin Franklin

Quote

"Political Correctness doesn't change us, it shuts us up."

-Glenn Beck

Quote

"I think you have to judge everything based on your personal taste. And if that means being critical, so be it. I hate political correctness. I absolutely loathe it."

-Simon Cowell

The best for last;

Quote

"The impulse behind political correctness is a good one. But like every good impulse in America, it has to be grotesquely distorted beyond usefulness. Clearly, these are victims, but I don't agree that these failed campus revolutionaries know what to do about them. When they're not busy curtailing freedom of speech, they're running around inventing absurd hyphenated names designed to make people feel better. Remember, these are the white elitists in there customary paternalistic role: protecting helpless, inept minority victims . Big Daddy White Boss always knows best."

-George Carlin

Being offended by the paint job is your right, that's fine. It's fine for you to come on the forums and voice that opinion if you hold it. However expecting PGI, IGP, MechWarrior, Battletech, and all the creative individuals involved in it to cave to your indignation is the height of hubris.

Cel, in our previous exchanges, you accused me of not having an opinion, of being ignorant of the ongoing political strife between the two countries, and of being a coward. None of those statements ring true: I do have an opinion on the mech, but taking a stand on what I think of it isn't the point I am trying to make. PGI can make what they want, games are an art, and a business, and its my job as a consumer to choose what I buy. The same goes for you, you have a choice, of what YOU, buy.

So, if you find it offensive to the point that you cannot support the game, don't! If a large enough portion of the player base boycotted the product the companies stance would be forced to adapt because of the nature of capitalism. PGI I am sure can track the sales metrics of every cent of money put into the game, if nobody buys the Wang, then they will adapt. I doubt that the offended group has the numbers to be successful, but I encourage you, Cel, and anyone else who has a problem with the mech to stick with your feelings by voting with your wallet. Be a free to play player! The rest of us will continue to support PGI, and in my case, continue to enjoy the rich and varied cultures of the Inner Sphere.

If or when they offend me then I to will take to the forums and express my discontent. But one thing I would never do, as a human being who values individuality above all else, is expect people to conform to my standards or taste.

Edited by MCXL, 28 October 2012 - 09:35 AM.