36 replies to this topic

[Kai Harper]

Hey guys, I was wondering about something while at work this morning, and since I don't have a BTech book to refer to (and yes, I'm a *tad* lazy at times, so I didn't search the wiki) about canon, I'm asking the general community about this - also, if it's not in the universe, about views on it being implemented anyway.

A mate and I were chatting about weapon types, and he asked me if MWO would have a quality system like a lot of MMOs do (white/green/blue/purple/orange), etc. but since I do doubt that happening - and to be honest, hope it isn't in game - I was thinking about alternate ammunition types for our launchers and AC's. For instance, EMP warheads to immobilize or lock down 'Mechs, or incendiary warheads to crank up the heat on someone, explosive or armor piercing AC rounds depending on what you want, etc.

Thoughts?

[Seabear]

Only the type of warheads available in canon need to be found in MWO and available to everyone. Stay away from "golden ammo" and pay to win!

[Trevnor]

Well, EMP rounds never existed in canon. Inferno(incendiary/Fuel-air explosive) did. And besides the standard "dummy" warhead, the AC ammo was always depleted uranium, and Gauss rounds were Titanium (can someone correct me on this?) slugs.

[Grus]

i do beleve that the GAUSS rounds were [color=#000000]ferrous nickel-iron alloy and the size of a small car.[/color]

[Tannhauser Gate]

Fun ideas but Id rather keep it canon, keep it BT, and balance that with MWO's goals and pillars of playability. I dont really want to see exotic non-canon ammo of any kind. BT has alot already.

[Trevnor]

Grus, on 30 March 2012 - 12:44 PM, said:

i do beleve that the GAUSS rounds were [color=#000000]ferrous nickel-iron alloy and the size of a small car.[/color]

I've always read it, in books anyways, the size of a basketball. Which traveling at those speeds is still a lot of friggin energy.

[Tannhauser Gate]

Ive heard basketball sized solid metallic spheres, slugs elongated to maximize energy transfer from the magnetic coils, kinetic penetrators with depleted uranium cores and nickel ferro cladding. Maybe someone more knowledgeable that I could add some specificity. They all sound pretty cool to me.

[Evgeny Bear]

No switchable or premium ammo types for ACs
Only Launcher weapons need some different ammo, but not switchable, more device like.
I don't want this "hmm what shall I load this time" thinkin, and the switching in the middle of a battle.

[00dlez]

LakeDaemon, on 30 March 2012 - 01:16 PM, said:

Ive heard basketball sized solid metallic spheres, slugs elongated to maximize energy transfer from the magnetic coils, kinetic penetrators with depleted uranium cores and nickel ferro cladding. Maybe someone more knowledgeable that I could add some specificity. They all sound pretty cool to me.

AKA a watermelon... which is what I've always pictured them as

[Moncai Icaza]

Yup i thought watermelon aswell in fact if not in mechwarrior/battletech then i beleve GURPS describes them as such and both try for a real science feel (at least in GURPS core books anyway)

[Teferi]

Sadly there was one type of ammo for standard ACs in 3049 but by the mid-3050s new ammo types were being test-fired. The six types of special ammo are Armor-Piercing Ammunition or (HEAP), Caseless, Flechette, Tracer, Incendiary, and Precision or Gyrojet. For the Gauss I think the CBT; TechManual said it best “Despite the advent of newer designs, the Star League-era Gauss rifle first developed by Norse Technologies and deployed (originally in prototype form) on NETC’s Alacorn main battle tank remains the standard by which all others are measured. Powerful enough to tear an enemy mech’s head clean off at more than half a kilometer, even Clan designers found little to improve it. The Clan standard model is omly about 20 percent lighter and more compact than the Zeus Slingshot or Poland Main Model A both of which match the specs of original SLDF models all for the exact same range and damage profile.”

All the info i have comes from CBT: TechManual, CBT: Master Rulers Revised, and BT: Maximum Tech Revised

[Sychodemus]

Lt Trevnor, on 30 March 2012 - 12:36 PM, said:

Well, EMP rounds never existed in canon. Inferno(incendiary/Fuel-air explosive) did. And besides the standard "dummy" warhead, the AC ammo was always depleted uranium, and Gauss rounds were Titanium (can someone correct me on this?) slugs.

Mag-Pulse warheads are canon and as of The Wars of Reaving, there are Improved Magnetic Pulse warheads for iATMs.
AC ammo is generally described as "high-explosive, armor-defeating", even as HEAP - which can be used to describe a variety of penetrating mechanisms (though not always correctly and is dependant on whose alphabet-soup you are using.)
Gauss rifle rounds have typically been described as "nickel-ferrous."

To the OP's comment regarding color-quality, I would not discount it since there so many manufacturers of any given weapon and the fluff has indicated differences in quality for some of them.

[80sGlamRockSensation David Bowie]

Really, the only ammo types that should be changeable are within LBX autocannons where in the 'mechlab you choose either slug or shot, and with LRMs and SRMs. For instance, inferno or HE. Later on in the time line streak (which is even further down in the time line for LRMs).

[Soviet Alex]

If we assume for a moment that the Raven is going to be in the game at or near release, then we are going to be locking on to those NARC beacons. Whether they work like MW3 to improve lock-on with standard missiles, or whether we'll need NARC-homing ammo is a question for the devs. Likewise, Artemis fire-control is being added to missile launchers in this era, although we are still a few years from TAG-homing LRMs. Further down the line, the iNARC (someone's gonna sue) has a wide range of different ammo types. In Battletech, you can mix 'n' match ammo in 1-ton lots, but I don't remember any of the PC games having that capability.

[Requital]

Andar89, on 30 March 2012 - 01:36 PM, said:

No switchable or premium ammo types for ACs
Only Launcher weapons need some different ammo, but not switchable, more device like.
I don't want this "hmm what shall I load this time" thinkin, and the switching in the middle of a battle.

it would be stupid if you could switch ammo in the field anyway...its not like in the middle of battle you can pause it, run back to a mechlab and swap for something else.

with that said, from what I have read in the books, there are different types of ammo available, and I see no problem with differing types and qualities of ammo. with that said, you should only be able to purchase the upgrades in game with c-bills, not from the store(gotta stay away from the pay to win, eh?), and the ammo types can only be switched out in the mechlab prior to a drop.

otherwise, I personally see no problem. I will say that ammo types are most likely on a back burner(as they should be) while bugs and more pressing content and balance issues are addressed.

[Sychodemus]

Soviet Alex, on 30 March 2012 - 03:43 PM, said:

If we assume for a moment that the Raven is going to be in the game at or near release, then we are going to be locking on to those NARC beacons. Whether they work like MW3 to improve lock-on with standard missiles, or whether we'll need NARC-homing ammo is a question for the devs. Likewise, Artemis fire-control is being added to missile launchers in this era, although we are still a few years from TAG-homing LRMs. Further down the line, the iNARC (someone's gonna sue) has a wide range of different ammo types. In Battletech, you can mix 'n' match ammo in 1-ton lots, but I don't remember any of the PC games having that capability.

Ammo-switching should not be an issue, since there are many games out there that have toggle options for weapons already.

[A6PackofToucans]

HVAC 10's for me, I would put two of them on a Cyclops, and a PPC and LRM 20 for my all 'round config.

Think I might have to substitute the HVAC's for the AC-10 for MWO though.

[William Petersen]

This is one reason that some mechs carry several tons of ammo: so they can bring different types of ammunition to the fight. LB-X ACs have cluster and slug rounds (slug rounds causing them to function just like standard ACs), there are a lot of different types of SRM and LRM ammo, I *know* inferno is around by this time, I'm not sure about the others, what they are or what they do or when they were available.

As to the size of a gauss slug, it is said by Sarna to be "ferrous nickel-iron alloy" and it comes at 8 shots per ton. So each slug is *approximately* 1/8th ton. Estimate a density for a nickel-iron alloy ("ferrous" seems a bit redundant, since it mean "iron"), and you can get an approximation for the volume of each slug. I can't imagine them being spheres would be a sensible design, but then again, I'm not a ballistics expert.

[Soviet Alex]

I wouldn't worry about the precise details of gauss ammo. The description in the novels doesn't mesh very well with real-world physics at all. Although a big racing motorbike also weighs about 1/8th of a ton. Picture your mech being hit by a 900cc Ducati at Mach 2. Think Bike!

On the subject of LBX-class autocannons: In Battletech they fire flechette rounds (commonly referred to as "buckshot") and armour-piercing shells. The only real difference between the two is the spread of damage, with the canister round having a slight accuracy advantage. In MW3 all types of autocannons fired a stream of projectiles, rather than a single shell. There were no Flechette rounds, and the only advantages that LBX's had were weight, space & heat. We don't know yet what autocannon are like in MW-O, so we don't know if LBX's will need 2 ammo types. The same is true for missiles launchers. Artemis & NARC in MW3 worked very differently to Artemis & NARC in Battletech, and didn't require special missile ammo. Depending on how MW-O incorporates these ideas, we may not need to switch ammo types at all.

[EDMW CSN]

Andar89, on 30 March 2012 - 01:36 PM, said:

No switchable or premium ammo types for ACs Only Launcher weapons need some different ammo, but not switchable, more device like. I don't want this "hmm what shall I load this time" thinkin, and the switching in the middle of a battle.

Why not ? I want Precision AC-20 ammo for all those homing AC-20 shell headshots