20 replies to this topic

[Sesambrot]

So I've been wondering for a while now, theoretically it should be possible to create custom maps.
After all, the CE3 SDK is available, and all the resources you need for an MWO-map come with the game itself.
In fact I'm fairly certain those maps could easily be created, the big question is, would there be any way to include them into the game successfully, and what criteria would they need to fullfill?

Custom maps in a F2P aren't impossible, it works well for TF2, then again, TF2 isn't trying to create a persistent "meta-game-universe" around the actual game...

I know this is more of a question, than a suggestion, but what do you think of custom maps for MWO?
Can you think of any way for this to work with the universe rather than just being "fun"-maps?
And finally, would it even be desireable for the developers to give that option to us?

To give you my own answers to those questions:
I would sure as hell love to create custom maps for MWO!

I'm not sure how such maps would be included, other than training-maps or fun-maps, maybe there could be a monthly contest where everyone could vote for their favourite map to be included, and then put into place by the devs. Hell I could even imagine people paying to have their map included, but that actually seems like a bad idea...

I can't really say if it was desirable or not, usually it's that kind of stuff that keeps the community around a game alive, on the other hand, MWO being F2P we'll probably see constant updates anyway. What I don't really see happening are mods. It might be possible given the tools at our disposal but enabling that would possibly lead to people creating mods to access all the higher tier stuff earlier, or increasing the XP/CBill rate, which would completely bypass the F2P-intention of the game. Maps however, are really just cosmetic and at least I don't know any way to abuse for something like that. I'm just unsure about whether the inclusion of custom content would be worth the effort...



So now it's your turn, what's your oppinion?

[Fresh Meat]

I bet that we will be able to create maps, after all regiments or clans etc. need places to train together.

[Morgana]

Interesting discussion to be found in this thread http://mwomercs.com/...Bcustom+%2Bmaps

[Sesambrot]

Oh, didn't see that one...
In that case, I'll leave it to the mods to close this one if they deem that necessary...
...though I'm trying to discuss maps specifically, and if there's a way to actually include them into the universe.
Sure, some are going to use custom maps as training grounds, but what I have in mind are actually full fledged maps with the intent to be used for "proper" battles.

Edited by Sesambrot, 31 March 2012 - 03:40 PM.

[Dihm]

Not possible.

[Sesambrot]

Dihm, on 02 April 2012 - 06:14 AM, said:

Not possible.

care to elaborate on that?

[Dihm]

Sure. Players will not be adding maps or mechs to the game, just like players do not add maps or units to League of Legends or World of Tanks.

[Steel Talon]

Dihm, on 02 April 2012 - 07:06 AM, said:

Sure. Players will not be adding maps or mechs to the game, just like players do not add maps or units to League of Legends or World of Tanks.

Well, there are editing tools for CryEngine 3, so some good comunity maps could be added into update.

[Siilk]

As far as I understand, map creation would be pretty much possible. Getting maps onto MWO servers, that would be the real problem. With servers being fully controlled by PGI, you would have to either have an ingame option to create a custom game room with some control over it(and I hope this option would be available in MWO) or wait for PGI to include your custom map into the official rotation. The availability of the former option is still unclear, as for the latter one, there is a tendency for multiplayer games to include some of the community-made maps into the official rotatrions(TF2 comes to mind), but again, how PGI would deal with this is unknown.

[Dihm]

PGI will retain control over all maps and servers in order to accommodate the meta-game. Allowing player control of the servers and customization of the rules or the use of player-created maps will enable additional avenues for cheating.

Edited by Dihm, 03 April 2012 - 04:50 AM.

[Kaemon]

Dihm, on 03 April 2012 - 04:50 AM, said:

PGI will retain control over all maps and servers in order to accommodate the meta-game. Allowing player control of the servers and customization of the rules or the use of player-created maps will enable additional avenues for cheating.

Can you elaborate a bit more on this? I really don't see how a player-gen map causes issues with the metagame, especially if it's just added into the rotation.

Obviously the devs would do a quick review to make sure there were no exploits available (other than exp of the map, which mitigates itself after it's been in rotation for a week or so).

Even if it becomes an issue, you simply turn off xp and meta-game for that map, and it becomes a sandbox or PR map (for the community).

Players do not need to control the server to run the map, it just needs to be sent to the devs to be uploaded (or maybe I'm missing something).

[Dihm]

...

I have no idea where people are getting their ideas about what this game will be. It will not have servers like TF2 does, it will not have servers like MW4 does. Play World of Tanks or League of Legends or any number of "arena-based" games out there, and you'll get a feel for how it will operate.

PGI is releasing a "minimum viable product" for the beta. That isn't going to leave time for them to create a map editor or deal with figuring out a system of integrating customer content. PGI is going to control the experience players have while playing their game. Pilot and mech experience are built in to the game experience, as is ammunition and repair costs. They are not going to make a special game mode that involves none of those core aspects of the game they are developing.

[Sesambrot]

For that matter, I'd like to know where you get your ideas from, Nothing has been released on the topic, yet you act like you know it all, which makes even less sense than speculating.
As you said, this isn't going to be like TF2, but what makes you so sure it's going to be just like WoT or LoL?
In fact I played WoT for a while, but that doesn't say anything about the possible implementation of custom content, especially maps.

If you had any idea of it, you'd probably know that there wouldn't necessarily be the need to create a new mapeditor just for MWO, as it runs on CE3, and a SDK for it is already out there, the only concern is to get the resources that come with the game into this, already existing, editor. All the models, all the Entities needed for the game to run, need to be on a map, and in fact on your computer anyway, so it really shouldn't be much of a problem creating custom maps at all.
The real question is how to get them out there...

Actually WoT provides an answer:
Training Battles, basically a server that runs a map, or mapcycle without any metagame being active, meaning you get no xp, money etc. but you also don't need to repair any damage afterwards. Those servers exist in WoT, I just don't know if they're hosted by players.

As for getting those custom maps in the actual game, that's what I'm trying to gather ideas for.
For example:
player hosted test/training servers
monthly mapping contest
community votes

There are possibilities for those who want to see them. Besides noone is asking for this to be included "NAO!!111"...
I'd actually agree with you that support for this would probably not be included at launch of the beta, but why wouldn't there be the possibility to find a way for this to work later?
Unlike with WoT, the devs here are relatively active on their forums, and seem to listen to alot of what the community has to say/offer.
What makes you so sure they might not even consider it at some point?

[Steel Talon]

Quote

That isn't going to leave time for them to create a map editor or deal with figuring out a system of integrating customer content.

Editor is basically done, its called Sandbox 3 i think, its part of CryEngine 3 SDK.

[Dihm]

Sesambrot, on 03 April 2012 - 06:45 AM, said:

For that matter, I'd like to know where you get your ideas from, Nothing has been released on the topic, yet you act like you know it all, which makes even less sense than speculating.

There's more out there, but it isn't the easiest to find. To say that nothing has been 'released' on the topic isn't quite accurate.

Quote

Is this game going to have lots of servers like a WoW or are you hoping for a single persistent server world like EVE Online?


[MATT C] Each game spawns its own dedicated server, these are not persistent like WoW, as mentioned that would take us into MMO territory. There is persistent game world information, i.e. match results are communicated to affect the balance of power in the Inner Sphere, who owns what planet etc. but there is no true persistent world, more of a persistent meta-game.

[MATT N] Lots of Servers Lots and Lots of servers

Quote

Will there be open servers with no impact on the worlds? –Technoviking

[BRYAN] All Ranked matches affect the Inner Sphere. We are considering several options for non-ranked matches, such as a practice server for players to test out tactics and BattleMech builds.

They HAVE also specifically said that there will be NO "player-hosted" servers. I can't find the quotes at the moment, but they aren't going to tailor this game so that people can take it and use it in planetary leagues instead of playing the ACTUAL MWO.

I get the impression that you think there will be a server up 24/7 that will be rotating maps after a set time or after victory conditions are met. This isn't going to be like Modern Warfare or Battlefield or TF2, where a server is up and running constantly, with players joining and leaving. Servers, as stated in Dev Q&A 1 (the first quote), will not exist until the 12 vs 12 match launches via the matchmaking system. Once the match is over, it disappears.

There are large problems with trying to add custom maps to that set up. Do you forcing the players to constantly download new maps if the matchmaker selects one that they haven't played before? Or do you have them constantly sending out patches to add in new maps? What maps make the cut and get included in the patch? They'd have to set up an internal QA to handle the influx of map submissions. There is also the issue of the level of quality that they'd like this game to have. Not saying players can't make good things, but they aren't going to be developed professionally. I get the impression that PGI wants to manage/control the experience players get while playing their game, they seem to want it to be the same high, consistent quality for everyone. With player developed content (mechs, maps, etc), they are at risk.

To touch on WoTs training rooms. They are not hosted by the player, and in fact, while you don't have to pay for repairs for your tanks and you don't gain experience, you DO use ammunition and you DO use modules, so you have to purchase anything that you use. It is still a dedicated server, much like any un-ranked match within MWO would be.

Edited by Dihm, 04 April 2012 - 05:29 AM.

[Jack Gallows]

Dihm, on 02 April 2012 - 07:06 AM, said:

Sure. Players will not be adding maps or mechs to the game, just like players do not add maps or units to League of Legends or World of Tanks.

This.

Which is fine, PGI will keep cranking out maps as they see fit, and to keep things fresh.

[Sprouticus]

I actually see no problem with Player created content (map wise anyway) if it is vetted by PGI. Obviously it would not be an 'at launch' type off thing, but it could be done.

After all what takes longer: Creating a map from scratch, or having your content dept review a map and put it into a beta test cycle? Mind you it might be tough to get the specs and such setup (which is why at launch would not be viable), but having a submission process seems very reasonable. If it needs to be tweaked, so be it.

In reality this would be a great way for PGI to encourage community support.

Now as to the legal side of things, it might be tough to ensure there were no legal hangups. The author would have to give up full rights.

[armitage]

I hope they would entertain the option of allowing player created maps at some point even if for only "fun games". There are some really excellent player made maps in MWLL that really rival those created by the devs. It would be fun to see, even if it won't be available until much later. I wouldn't want them to divert resources from building assets or their own maps to make this possible.

[Exilyth]

If there's going to be maping contests, a certain information minimum should be required (e.g. a map of the map, concept picture, map prototype modelled in the official editor, something like that), otherwise it's going to be lots of people posting only a short description.

There's nothing keeping the devs from making a user made map official after internal testing & refining. They could just put it into the next patch should they decide to do so. After that patch is applied, all users would have the map.

[Silver Wind Jones]

YES!!!!! Custom Maps would be AWESOME!!!! No traps just pure imagination!! If they made it like Crytek did with Crisis and they put the CryENGINE 3 to use in the game!?!?! DEAR HEAVENS that would be amazing!!!!