265 replies to this topic

[Aegis Kleais]

I feel it's borderline insanity if you feel that you should impose on other players to have to act in a manner that is conducive with the game's fictional lore.

It's fine if you want to do that for yourself; to each his own; but to impose it on a player who just wants to play the game how they see fit? It would do little more than segregate and weaken the community in my eyes.

Again, if you want to do it; have at it; just don't count me in on it.

[Stone Profit]

Aegis Kleais™, on 14 April 2012 - 05:26 PM, said:

I feel it's borderline insanity if you feel that you should impose on other players to have to act in a manner that is conducive with the game's fictional lore.

It's fine if you want to do that for yourself; to each his own; but to impose it on a player who just wants to play the game how they see fit? It would do little more than segregate and weaken the community in my eyes.

Again, if you want to do it; have at it; just don't count me in on it.

The problem is, Instead of just letting things be, some people insist that because they dont care about the lore, it shouldnt be in the game and should be changed. But why should I be forced to not play a game with the correct BT lore just because someone else doesnt care about it? If you dont care about the BT lore and cant stand it if its in this game, you should go play armored core or something. I dont think ANYone is insisting everyone needs to roleplay, and I cant imagine why anyone thinks follow the lore ingame means you have to roleplay. I love the lore. And im not gonna roleplay for crap. Im going to be the best damn mech pilot I can, work with my team, and make kills and win missions. And I want to do all that with the rich BT lore underneath it.

[Aegis Kleais]

Stone Profit, on 14 April 2012 - 09:49 PM, said:

The problem is, Instead of just letting things be, some people insist that because they dont care about the lore, it shouldnt be in the game and should be changed. But why should I be forced to not play a game with the correct BT lore just because someone else doesnt care about it? If you dont care about the BT lore and cant stand it if its in this game, you should go play armored core or something. I dont think ANYone is insisting everyone needs to roleplay, and I cant imagine why anyone thinks follow the lore ingame means you have to roleplay. I love the lore. And im not gonna roleplay for crap. Im going to be the best damn mech pilot I can, work with my team, and make kills and win missions. And I want to do all that with the rich BT lore underneath it.

But the bottom line comes down to, they don't want it; and you do. You're both valued customers of the franchise, and though I know (let's be honest) that you feel your opinion should count more since you're a fan of the series, that it should have more weight; that ultimately comes down to the decision of the developer on whether they feel it warrants inclusion into the game's blueprints.

I personally hate history. Always have. Even moreso when it's fictional. So for you to be dismissive and tell someone like me to just go play a different game, that's offensive. I don't care if PGI adds lore and story to the game or uses it as a basis for how they are doing things in MechWarrior Online. But like you, I just want to play the game and be the best pilot I can be; the only difference is that I don't have the appreciation nor have I placed the importance that you've put on lore.

I can understand you feeling as if someone's opinion to ignore a vital part of the game shouldn't be as valid, but I think PGI has a clear vision of what MWO should be, and it's taking more from your side (being based on lore) than not. I have trust in PGI as well that they're not just going to do a 1:1 conversion of everything over from TT rules and such (otherwise the game would be BattleTech Online), so, in a likewise manner, I trust PGI has that aspect of the game under control too.

[RedDragon]

Aegis Kleais™, on 15 April 2012 - 05:40 AM, said:

I personally hate history. Always have. Even moreso when it's fictional. So for you to be dismissive and tell someone like me to just go play a different game, that's offensive. I don't care if PGI adds lore and story to the game or uses it as a basis for how they are doing things in MechWarrior Online. But like you, I just want to play the game and be the best pilot I can be; the only difference is that I don't have the appreciation nor have I placed the importance that you've put on lore.

Sad to hear that someone would "hate" history. Learning from past mistakes is the first step to building a better future. But that aside: What is Mechwarrior if you take away the lore? Nothing more than a generic mecha-sim.
I'm not sure I want to give the fate of the BT-universe into the hands of the gamers, even if it's restricted to the game. There are too many variables that could lead to silly situations. With all the knowledge the players have about the clan invasion, there would be no way the IS could win at Tukkayyid for example. Every major battle will degrade to some small skirmishes if somthing big is at stake. We saw it in various MW4-leagues. If you really want to win because there's a big prize, you will camp, spawn-rape, jump-snipe or whatever just to be on the winning side. I don't want to see a planetary assault where both teams hang back to their dropzones because no one wants to risk losing a mech.
If you "just want to play the game" as you say, it shouldn't be important to you how the story evolves around you. But on the other hand, if you're a true BT-fan, it WILL matter how the timeline progresses.

[Gun Bear]

I just want my chance to write my own piece of Battletech History. I think the main points of the lore are important but I don't like the idea that some purists seem to have about how it should always be exactly like it says it is.

[Jack Gammel]

Aegis Kleais™, on 15 April 2012 - 05:40 AM, said:

I personally hate history. Always have.

I'm a history major, so you know...

But Battletech has an established lore. It exists whether people like it or not, and that lore has been around longer than some of the people of this forum have been alive. I doubt that not knowing Battletech fluff will hurt someone's gaming experience since the point of the game is giant fighting robots and there is a vast amount of grey room for MWO players to battle it out, win impressive battles, survive crushing defeats, and win honor and glory (and credits) from their respective factions without having a major effect on the universe itself, but maintaining the lore is a nod to the game's legacy and will help fans actually recognize it as Battletech.

But I would laugh if MWO established itself as an alternative reality where player actions changed future events. It would ******* hardcore battletech players, and I can just imagine the shenanigans which would follow.

[Stone Profit]

Aegis Kleais™, on 15 April 2012 - 05:40 AM, said:

But the bottom line comes down to, they don't want it; and you do. You're both valued customers of the franchise, and though I know (let's be honest) that you feel your opinion should count more since you're a fan of the series, that it should have more weight; that ultimately comes down to the decision of the developer on whether they feel it warrants inclusion into the game's blueprints.

I personally hate history. Always have. Even moreso when it's fictional. So for you to be dismissive and tell someone like me to just go play a different game, that's offensive. I don't care if PGI adds lore and story to the game or uses it as a basis for how they are doing things in MechWarrior Online. But like you, I just want to play the game and be the best pilot I can be; the only difference is that I don't have the appreciation nor have I placed the importance that you've put on lore.

I can understand you feeling as if someone's opinion to ignore a vital part of the game shouldn't be as valid, but I think PGI has a clear vision of what MWO should be, and it's taking more from your side (being based on lore) than not. I have trust in PGI as well that they're not just going to do a 1:1 conversion of everything over from TT rules and such (otherwise the game would be BattleTech Online), so, in a likewise manner, I trust PGI has that aspect of the game under control too.

Do not assume you know what I think. You dont and cant.
I ALWAYS go with "the devs made it, so take what they gave you.". I played world of warcraft, a game whos lore has enormous flaw that could have been corrected. But I never cared, because it was a game. If I disliked the lore, I would have played another game. As it was, I didnt care about the lore, and so kept my mouth shut. As should people who assume they know what others think. How is it offense for me to tell you to play a different game?And you accuse me of being dismissive. I am not. I am offering an altenative to people who say they dont care about the lore and want to SELFISHLY HAVE THINGS CHANGED TO SUIT THEM AND NO ONE ELSE.
If you want to change the lore of battletech for this game, YOU JUST MADE IT NOT BATTLETECH. Do you see the flaw? If someone doesnt want to play battletech, let them go play a game that is not batttletech. If you are offended by that, there is something wrong, and not with my statement.. And if they dont care about any previous incarnations of BT, in what way are they valued customers? They have yet to invest ANYTHING in the franchise, while I have invested several hundred dollars over the years. Because I like the lore.. So I say that your argument is inherently flawed. The only part I can agree with is that PGI is appearing to stick to the lore despite what hordes of instant gratification junkies might wish. And let me remind you, BT has not survived this many barren years by having its players changing things for everyone based on their own desires, instead it came from diehard fans supporting the franchise while fairweather players went off and played other games.

Edited by Stone Profit, 15 April 2012 - 07:49 AM.

[skull of giants]

quit whining. if the lore had anything to do with major events, that would make it loosely related to the major events.

[Yeach]

Not sure what I am adding here but.


-general history (part of lore) is well and good and should be followed as needed;
technical details can be changed or upgrade to reflect the new technology and understanding of the "los-tech".

-and of course the victors write the history of lore.
ie in MW4: Mercs you (as the player) killed Nondi Steiner, but in lore Peter Steiner-Davion kills her. (i think)

[Aegis Kleais]

RedDragon, on 15 April 2012 - 06:04 AM, said:

Sad to hear that someone would "hate" history. Learning from past mistakes is the first step to building a better future. But that aside: What is Mechwarrior if you take away the lore? Nothing more than a generic mecha-sim.
I'm not sure I want to give the fate of the BT-universe into the hands of the gamers, even if it's restricted to the game. There are too many variables that could lead to silly situations. With all the knowledge the players have about the clan invasion, there would be no way the IS could win at Tukkayyid for example. Every major battle will degrade to some small skirmishes if somthing big is at stake. We saw it in various MW4-leagues. If you really want to win because there's a big prize, you will camp, spawn-rape, jump-snipe or whatever just to be on the winning side. I don't want to see a planetary assault where both teams hang back to their dropzones because no one wants to risk losing a mech.
If you "just want to play the game" as you say, it shouldn't be important to you how the story evolves around you. But on the other hand, if you're a true BT-fan, it WILL matter how the timeline progresses.

Some people like Mechwarrior for what it is at it's core. Sans knowing a single thing about the game's lore or history, they can be a deep fan of the Mech-based simulation that MWO exudes.

Jack Gammel, on 15 April 2012 - 07:21 AM, said:

I'm a history major, so you know...

But Battletech has an established lore. It exists whether people like it or not, and that lore has been around longer than some of the people of this forum have been alive. I doubt that not knowing Battletech fluff will hurt someone's gaming experience since the point of the game is giant fighting robots and there is a vast amount of grey room for MWO players to battle it out, win impressive battles, survive crushing defeats, and win honor and glory (and credits) from their respective factions without having a major effect on the universe itself, but maintaining the lore is a nod to the game's legacy and will help fans actually recognize it as Battletech.

But I would laugh if MWO established itself as an alternative reality where player actions changed future events. It would ******* hardcore battletech players, and I can just imagine the shenanigans which would follow.

I have nothing against anyone who wants to know the game's lore. They're more than entitled to that, and if it results in making the game that much more enjoyable for that player, then more power to them. Personally, I find myself much more wanton to know generalized tactics principles that can be employed on the battlefield than knowing whom Katrina Steiner's parents were or how she rose to power. (Again, just a personal preference)

Stone Profit, on 15 April 2012 - 07:46 AM, said:

Do not assume you know what I think. You dont and cant.
I ALWAYS go with "the devs made it, so take what they gave you.". I played world of warcraft, a game whos lore has enormous flaw that could have been corrected. But I never cared, because it was a game. If I disliked the lore, I would have played another game. As it was, I didnt care about the lore, and so kept my mouth shut. As should people who assume they know what others think. How is it offense for me to tell you to play a different game?And you accuse me of being dismissive. I am not. I am offering an altenative to people who say they dont care about the lore and want to SELFISHLY HAVE THINGS CHANGED TO SUIT THEM AND NO ONE ELSE.
If you want to change the lore of battletech for this game, YOU JUST MADE IT NOT BATTLETECH. Do you see the flaw? If someone doesnt want to play battletech, let them go play a game that is not batttletech. If you are offended by that, there is something wrong, and not with my statement.. And if they dont care about any previous incarnations of BT, in what way are they valued customers? They have yet to invest ANYTHING in the franchise, while I have invested several hundred dollars over the years. Because I like the lore.. So I say that your argument is inherently flawed. The only part I can agree with is that PGI is appearing to stick to the lore despite what hordes of instant gratification junkies might wish. And let me remind you, BT has not survived this many barren years by having its players changing things for everyone based on their own desires, instead it came from diehard fans supporting the franchise while fairweather players went off and played other games.

Your first statement actually made me laugh. Nobody made any assumption that they knew what you think; you're actually telling people NOT to be mindreaders; a task that is in and of itself, impossible.

If you feel so closely tied to a game's lore vindicating whether you should or should not play it, that is YOUR OPINION, which you are entitled to, but NOT allowed to impose on others. It is subjective, not objective.

I never said it was offense to you to tell me to play another game, I said it was offensive to ME for you to tell me to play another game if I didn't care for something as menial as its lore. Why is everyone so fixated on people who are not interested in lore attempting to change it; I don't see anyone making such requests.

You're assumption that anyone who doesn't like lore equates to an instant gratification junkie is what is flawed. You seem to think people are black and white; if they think THIS way then they MUST think THAT way. I don't think that's ever been the case.

BT/MW is a niche market. In digital game form, it has been on life support for the last decade; I wouldn't say that it is healthy or thriving. PGI is working to breathe life back into the game and will revitalize the community for doing so.

[RedDragon]

Aegis Kleais™, on 15 April 2012 - 08:38 AM, said:

Some people like Mechwarrior for what it is at it's core. Sans knowing a single thing about the game's lore or history, they can be a deep fan of the Mech-based simulation that MWO exudes.

Personally I've never met anyone who played some/all of the past MW titles and doesn't know anything about the background. Have you?
In my experience, new players may come for the game but they stay for the story behind it. Even the ones "recruited" by MechAssault tend to be interested in the background story and learn about the "real" Battletech.
And I bet that >90% of the gamers interested in MWO also want to know more about the universe behind it. Mechwarrior has always (with the possible exception of MW4) been a game for people who like to get involved in a good story and follow a real plot. That comes with the fact that MW always had the flair of a simulation, a genre that is mainly played by people who want to KNOW their game, not only play it, as opposed to arcade games and the like.

Edited by RedDragon, 15 April 2012 - 08:58 AM.

[Aegis Kleais]

RedDragon, on 15 April 2012 - 08:51 AM, said:

Personally I've never met anyone who played some/all of the past MW titles and doesn't know anything about the background. Have you?
In my experience, new players may come for the game but they stay for the story behind it. Even the ones "recruited" by MechAssault tend to be interested in the background story and learn about the "real" Battletech.
And I bet that >90% of the gamers interested in MWO also want to know more about the universe behind it. Mechwarrior has always (with the possible exception of MW4) been a game for people who like to get involved in a good story and follow a real plot. That comes with the fact that MW always had the flair of a simulation, a genre that is mainly played by people who want to KNOW their game, not only play it, as opposed to arcade games and the like.

I can't say whether I know such a person or not; it's never once come up with the friends I play the game with.

To me, lore doesn't play an active role in the game. Meaning if you had someone who was a lore-fanatic, and another person who had no interest in learning the lore at all, once they are both familiar with the mechanics of the game, both can enjoy the game for their own reasons (one in tandem with the lore of the game, the other joyfully oblivious to it, and just enjoys the game type that MWO is)

Edited by Aegis Kleaisâ„¢, 15 April 2012 - 09:04 AM.

[Stone Profit]

Aegis Kleais™, on 15 April 2012 - 08:38 AM, said:

Some people like Mechwarrior for what it is at it's core. Sans knowing a single thing about the game's lore or history, they can be a deep fan of the Mech-based simulation that MWO exudes.

I have nothing against anyone who wants to know the game's lore. They're more than entitled to that, and if it results in making the game that much more enjoyable for that player, then more power to them. Personally, I find myself much more wanton to know generalized tactics principles that can be employed on the battlefield than knowing whom Katrina Steiner's parents were or how she rose to power. (Again, just a personal preference)

Your first statement actually made me laugh. Nobody made any assumption that they knew what you think; you're actually telling people NOT to be mindreaders; a task that is in and of itself, impossible.
If you feel so closely tied to a game's lore vindicating whether you should or should not play it, that is YOUR OPINION, which you are entitled to, but NOT allowed to impose on others. It is subjective, not objective.

I never said it was offense to you to tell me to play another game, I said it was offensive to ME for you to tell me to play another game if I didn't care for something as menial as its lore. Why is everyone so fixated on people who are not interested in lore attempting to change it; I don't see anyone making such requests.

You're assumption that anyone who doesn't like lore equates to an instant gratification junkie is what is flawed. You seem to think people are black and white; if they think THIS way then they MUST think THAT way. I don't think that's ever been the case.

BT/MW is a niche market. In digital game form, it has been on life support for the last decade; I wouldn't say that it is healthy or thriving. PGI is working to breathe life back into the game and will revitalize the community for doing so.

I assume nothing. I noted ONE segment of the population. Try again.

I gotta call troll on this one. Sorry, dude, I dont feed things under bridges. Im done with this thread.
Adios

*Legal Disclaimer: Iam not in any way calling any person, thing or entity a troll. I am making general refernces to a concept that has existed for some time in internet slang. Any images appearing to be a person, real or fictional, are accidental and unintended.* Good day

[Aegis Kleais]

Stone Profit, on 15 April 2012 - 09:09 AM, said:

I assume nothing. I noted ONE segment of the population. Try again.

I gotta call troll on this one. Sorry, dude, I dont feed things under bridges. Im done with this thread.
Adios

*Legal Disclaimer: Iam not in any way calling any person, thing or entity a troll. I am making general refernces to a concept that has existed for some time in internet slang. Any images appearing to be a person, real or fictional, are accidental and unintended.* Good day

If you're calling someone a troll who isn't, then I'll just report your post for calling people names. Laugh at your own "jokes" and overuse emoticons to make yourself feel better. But the bottom line is you walked away from a legitimate discussion.

Edited by Aegis Kleaisâ„¢, 15 April 2012 - 09:18 AM.

[Rear Admiral]

Yesterday it was an inane salvage thread, now its a ridiculous thread about... uh... what exactly are you guys arguing about again? It seems to me like yall are just arguing in circles about nothing in particular. "i like lore!", "i could care less about lore", yadda yadda yadda.

Lots of butt hurt in this thread. I think everybody needs to take a deep breath, stand up, take a break from their forum warrior-ing and come back later, refreshed, and ready to resume the petulant arguing about which mech will/should be in the game.

Devs: this board needs a beta or some screenshots or some ingame footage or something or its gonna come apart at the seams, lol.

have a nice day

[Nawiedzony]

Its Mechwarrior Online or Battletech Online? I not want play online copy of Battletech just game based on it ....

[Gun Bear]

Nawiedzony, on 15 April 2012 - 09:44 AM, said:

Its Mechwarrior Online or Battletech Online? I not want play online copy of Battletech just game based on it ....

Mechwarrior Online supposedly. Though they want to remain more true to Battletech than previous incarnations.

[BerryChunks]

yes. Individual players in TT didn't change the game's story. Some people like fighting for a side that's going to lose in the end. some people like fighting for the winning side. some people like inbetween.

Whether this is achieved through following the game's story or not is immaterial, as either way everyone should be satisfied. There is therefore no reason not to follow it.

Nawiedzony, on 15 April 2012 - 09:44 AM, said:

Its Mechwarrior Online or Battletech Online? I not want play online copy of Battletech just game based on it ....

lol... then I guess no mechwarrior game is for you, since every incarnation of mechwarrior followed the canon.

Edited by BerryChunks, 15 April 2012 - 09:51 AM.

[Gun Bear]

BerryChunks, on 15 April 2012 - 09:50 AM, said:

yes. Individual players in TT didn't change the game's story. Some people like fighting for a side that's going to lose in the end. some people like fighting for the winning side. some people like inbetween.

Whether this is achieved through following the game's story or not is immaterial, as either way everyone should be satisfied. There is therefore no reason not to follow it.

This.. this is plain and simply put great. Its like war re-enactors - everyone knows how it will end but it doesn't make it any less fun to do it and even if you are on the loosing side you can still brag about how well you did even in the face of defeat.

[Androclese]

Nawiedzony, on 15 April 2012 - 09:44 AM, said:

Its Mechwarrior Online or Battletech Online? I not want play online copy of Battletech just game based on it ....

It is MechWarrior Online; it has to be, the lore cannot explain the Unseen being MIA due to the involvement of copyright lawyers.