Israel Flag Cockpit Item
#1
Posted 29 November 2014 - 09:05 AM
Ok, I can see that there are only ~8.000.000 people living in Israel. But still, I'm serious.
+ I wondered what the requirements for the already implemented flags of nations were anyway. Is it about population? Purchasing power?
#2
Posted 29 November 2014 - 09:45 AM
#3
Posted 29 November 2014 - 11:59 AM
But I don't want to avoid it. I want to confront. + I would like to see what PGI says about that matter or if they would even be ready to implement the flag.
#4
Posted 29 November 2014 - 12:19 PM
#5
Posted 29 November 2014 - 12:59 PM
Anyways, that's just my two cents. As sad as the thought is, I rather expect this thread to go the same way my patriotic paint schemes suggestion thread went. Apparently, expressing patriotism is a bad thing in today's society.
How pitiful.
#6
Posted 29 November 2014 - 02:41 PM
But to be fair, I think it's silly that any flag was added to the game, both because to be fair, all 200 or something nations in the world should be there and because this game has nothing to do with Denmark or Japan. It's about Draconis Combine vs Lyrans or clans, leave the real world behind when you log in.
#7
Posted 29 November 2014 - 02:45 PM
Savage Wolf, on 29 November 2014 - 02:41 PM, said:
Character assassination and dismissal. Classic.
#8
Posted 29 November 2014 - 02:53 PM
So, do we really want to bring that into MWO? I think there are better forums and channels for that.
#9
Posted 01 December 2014 - 04:31 PM
Savage Wolf, on 29 November 2014 - 02:53 PM, said:
So, do we really want to bring that into MWO? I think there are better forums and channels for that.
I agree with Wolf on this one. I think it is a mistake to add national flags to the game because of the 5% of cases that generate tension and conflict from players bringing real world politics into an online community. It's not just Israel and Palestine. Off the top of my head I would list Cyprus, Republic of China, the PRC, Vatican City as well as various historical flags like the USSR, which from a lore perspective didn’t collapse as in our timeline (if I remember my BT history correctly).
The alternative is to add all national flags, but then PGI has to become an arbiter of nationhood or suitability and that way lies madness.
I feel PGI should pull all the national flags and think carefully ahead of time about their policies around player-designed badges.
#10
Posted 02 December 2014 - 12:11 AM
#11
Posted 02 December 2014 - 12:28 AM
Pasha Osis, on 02 December 2014 - 12:11 AM, said:
QFT - no flags at all.
We have our own politics in BattleTech we don't need real world problems.
Just and example - the following should not insult anybody - i my words hurt you please tell me - i will delete them.
Nightmare1, on 29 November 2014 - 12:59 PM, said:
Anyways, that's just my two cents. As sad as the thought is, I rather expect this thread to go the same way my patriotic paint schemes suggestion thread went. Apparently, expressing patriotism is a bad thing in today's society.
Patriotism isn't a bad thing - the problem is patriotism hurts other peoples.
You brought an excellent example in the sentence about WWII... should I'm allowed to show patriotism? What is patriotism - in fact Germany in the current constellation exists for 25 years - the FLAG while "founded" before 1933 - represents another country as those that committed the crimes - and not the country committed the crimes but a small bunch of peoples.
So should i feel a "blood" dept vs Russians or British or French People because they killed people of my family? No i don't because i never knowed those persons but from photographs
So and because i have seen your Molon Labe - for you its a kind of patriotism to have you guns. It is what you understand for patriotism - but this is something i can't understand - you have millions of handguns in your country but fear the Kinder Surprise
Edited by Karl Streiger, 02 December 2014 - 12:29 AM.
#12
Posted 02 December 2014 - 05:34 AM
Karl Streiger, on 02 December 2014 - 12:28 AM, said:
You brought an excellent example in the sentence about WWII... should I'm allowed to show patriotism? What is patriotism - in fact Germany in the current constellation exists for 25 years - the FLAG while "founded" before 1933 - represents another country as those that committed the crimes - and not the country committed the crimes but a small bunch of peoples.
So should i feel a "blood" dept vs Russians or British or French People because they killed people of my family? No i don't because i never knowed those persons but from photographs
So and because i have seen your Molon Labe - for you its a kind of patriotism to have you guns. It is what you understand for patriotism - but this is something i can't understand - you have millions of handguns in your country but fear the Kinder Surprise
Right, I agree with you on that. While the past certainly has many examples of strife, the water under that bridge has long since passed. Frankly, I don't have any issue with anyone expressing their patriotism by placing a flag in their cockpit; I think that's kind of cool. What always amazes me is that there are some folks that see such expressions as the end of the world.
I may not like the particular country that is being extolled by such examples of patriotism, but I won't begrudge a person their right to express such pride. Like Voltaire says, "I do not agree with your opinion, but I will defend to the death your right to express it." If I want to place a flag in my cockpit, then I have to be willing for others to place their own flags in their cockpits too.
As far as Kinder Surprises go, I really appreciate you providing the URL; I had to look it up! Those actually look pretty neat. The only reason I can think of for why they are disallowed here, would be the potential choking hazards they represent. Our FDA is fanatical about that.
...And you're right; Patriotism has various meanings for different people and people groups. Still, I don't think that cockpit flags are an issue in this game. They are cockpit flags after all, which makes them fairly private. The only time people see them is if they decide to spectate on your Mech. At that point, the choice is theirs as to whether or not the wish to keep spectating if they decide to take offense at the flag they find in mine.
#13
Posted 02 December 2014 - 06:26 AM
Frankfully, I'm alright with Israel's flag. I'm Zionist. It's very similar to the origin of my alias in-game. Not that anyone would want to care about where I came from pyschologically; it's my own life. I don't care about where others came from if they have respectable character and live by morals that often. A ML.King quote which isn't taken seriously in this day and age. I don't need to conform to the norm developing in liberalism lately, without asking the serious questions first. Some people today just have little opinions on such matters though. Like, under-developed shallow stereotypical conformed paradigms. What if I say I'm 100% for Israel? I'd be blasted by so many groups who just passively want to accept everyone when really they have no opinion that's theirs. People today need to do some research. It's a very old conflict that can throw you into places you thought you'd never believe true before.
...
But that's besides the point. This is MWO.
We won't see more flags if it brings controversy.
In the meantime, I'm just another random name in this game!
Edited by Zephonarch II, 02 December 2014 - 06:28 AM.
#14
Posted 02 December 2014 - 06:51 AM
#15
Posted 02 December 2014 - 06:51 AM
Edit: I bet that you get all of your facts from the media and Internet and that you have never even set foot in the Middle East or Israel. You have no experience or knowledge of Middle Eastern culture. Bottom line your opinion is null and void so you should probably just shut up and move on.
Edited by TheSilkenPimp, 02 December 2014 - 07:43 AM.
#16
Posted 02 December 2014 - 06:56 AM
Nightmare1, on 02 December 2014 - 05:34 AM, said:
I'm sorry, but cockpits in this game is public space because everyone can see your cockpit. You choose what is there, but you cannot limit who can see it and people cannot opt out on being able to see certain cockpits. So until such a time, cockpits are public spaces.
Lets give an extreme example: I somehow find a way to put a dead baby in my cockpit. You can only see it by spectating me, but you have no way of knowing that spectating me will expose you to dead babies and while you can choose to spectate someone else (unless I'm the only one left alive) you have still already been exposed to something you didn't want to see.
Edited by Savage Wolf, 02 December 2014 - 06:56 AM.
#17
Posted 02 December 2014 - 07:11 AM
Galen Crayn, on 02 December 2014 - 06:23 AM, said:
Virtually every country in history has tried genocide against another; it's as old as time itself. That doesn't excuse it, but griping that some country hurt another at some point in history isn't really a reason to judge them as though they are unique in instigating that hurt.
As far as whether the land they inhabit is Israeli or Palestinian, that's another issue entirely.
...And to say that an entire nation is a misdeed is awfully arrogant. Just sayin'.
#18
Posted 02 December 2014 - 07:16 AM
Savage Wolf, on 02 December 2014 - 06:56 AM, said:
I'm sorry, but cockpits in this game is public space because everyone can see your cockpit. You choose what is there, but you cannot limit who can see it and people cannot opt out on being able to see certain cockpits. So until such a time, cockpits are public spaces.
Lets give an extreme example: I somehow find a way to put a dead baby in my cockpit. You can only see it by spectating me, but you have no way of knowing that spectating me will expose you to dead babies and while you can choose to spectate someone else (unless I'm the only one left alive) you have still already been exposed to something you didn't want to see.
The bottomline, however, is that I must choose to see the offensive item. Perhaps I am trolling through the spectator view and accidentally view it; whether or not I continue to view it or choose to take offense at is up to me. By placing your item in the cockpit, you are not offending me or obligating me to view it. I am the one who decides to take the chance that I may see something offensive by cycling spectator cams or remaining in-game in lieu of disconnecting. I am the one who decides to continue viewing something I may find appropriate. I am the one who decides whether or not I will take offense at what I see. People who claim injury due to your item are simply pandering for attention and lacking in personal constraint.
Frankly, comparing a cockpit flag item to a dead baby is about as extreme and misaligned as one can get. Bad example.
#19
Posted 02 December 2014 - 07:45 AM
Nightmare1, on 02 December 2014 - 07:16 AM, said:
maybe from your point of view - but it could be possible that people take offense by something you can't even imagine.
For example a Hamburger Cockpit Item.
Could be offensive for Indians -because its made my virtual beef - and cattle are holy animals for him.
Cockpit flags have the problem of existing world nations have a problem - everybody has some implication about a nation - may it be good or bad. Thats why i was very upset about the flags right from moment one - (it would have made some sense when it would have been nation flags of the soccer teams for the world cup)
(Not for me - i admit - i would have problems to recognize most flags at all.
#20
Posted 02 December 2014 - 07:45 AM
Savage Wolf, on 02 December 2014 - 06:56 AM, said:
I'm sorry, but cockpits in this game is public space because everyone can see your cockpit. You choose what is there, but you cannot limit who can see it and people cannot opt out on being able to see certain cockpits. So until such a time, cockpits are public spaces.
Lets give an extreme example: I somehow find a way to put a dead baby in my cockpit. You can only see it by spectating me, but you have no way of knowing that spectating me will expose you to dead babies and while you can choose to spectate someone else (unless I'm the only one left alive) you have still already been exposed to something you didn't want to see.
and what if I don't wanna see the US flag? already a problem isn't it? So its quite a debate about right and wrong and want and not want. And by this PGI will decide what is available and what not, except in cases where law forbids a specific symbol and PGI wants to sell MWO there as a product.
And PGI will probably decide by tyicall business cases: Time to make a flag, compared to possible customers.
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