30 replies to this topic

[Kip Wilson]

I calculated this info up a while back. At the 3025 time period the total number of 'mechs in the Inner Sphere was rouhly 100,000. The total number of inhabited planets was somewhere around 1500. Some simple division gives us about 75 Battlemechs per planet, or a little over 2 battallions. However an equal distribution is not the case. Important planets - capitals, industrialized planets, tactically valuable planets and so on - can have up to 10 regiments. Highly popluated worlds might have a few batallions to one or two regiments. Outback worlds will generally have less than a batallion, with as few as none.

[GrimJim]

Back in the day, a company could take an entire planet, just to give you some indicator of the power of a 'Mech vs. conventional arms.

[Arctic Fox]

William Petersen, on 02 April 2012 - 10:23 AM, said:

The idea of this type of sparse military deployment has always seemed ridiculous to me. So few BattleMechs defending *an entire planet*!? And once an invading force dispatches them, well now the planet is owned by the attackers? Even though the defenders still probably have many many conventional troops? Such nonsense. I think, in general, we humans from our single-planet species really have a hard time wrapping its head around all the issues and scale of planetary conquest.

The irony is that we've already had 2 'global conflicts,' so we should understand the concept.

There are plenty of instances where attacking forces are mentioned as taking months to completely take a planet, despite the fact that combat between large forces can often end in decisive results within hours (Such as at the Battle of Luthien). It's just that BattleTech planets are often much more sparsly populated and built up, so once major objectives such as planetary capitals, spaceports and factories are in the attacker's hands then they have essentially taken the planet for most purposes.

[Skylarr]

Seabear, on 02 April 2012 - 10:12 AM, said:

Given HPGs and pirate points, it would be possible to reinforce a planet before an attack.

It is not that simple. If an enemy Jumpship jumps into a Jump Point in system it would create an Emergance Signature:

"When materializing at their destination point (whether or not it was the intended destination of the jump), the JumpShip causes tidal stresses similar to those caused when jumping. It also advertises its presence with an electromagnetic pulse that can be detected billions of kilometers away, and an infra-red signature that can be detected from a relatively close range of up to 50,000 km. Together these are called the Emergence signature, and are determined by the total mass of the JumpShip and all attached DropShips. It is even possible to assess the mass or size of an arriving JumpShip from its emergence signature."

If there is no one at the Jump Point, which is possible, the only to see this jump is from sensors in system. A small jumpship may come into system without even being seen. Remember some Jumpship may just be stopping to recharge, which takes days, then be on there way. I think it only takes a few hours for the Emergence Wave to reach the planet. ten it up to the sensor operator to detect it.

Jump Point to planet will be 5 to 12 days. Terra is 9 days. The attacking force may be halfway to planet when they are noticed. A single dropship may not be seenuntill less than a day is left. Some planets may not see them at all.

As a defender you need to determine if you can handle the incoming forces. I am not sure how long it would take for friendlies to get your
HPG . Lets say hours because you paid allot of money. The responding forces will need days to rally their forces. Most planets had to wait weeks, or months, before help arrived.

Also, Jumping into a Pirate Point is ok for a small or singe jumpship, but, not a large force. Even Warships use standard Jump Points and then fly closer to the planet.

Here are the Jump Points connections as of 3040

Edited by Skylarr, 02 April 2012 - 11:16 AM.

[Jacob Carlyle]

You do have to understand that most planets do not resemble Earth in any way. They will have one or two major settlements at the point(s) where initial planetfall was made by the first colonists. These will have grown to moderate city size and will be supported by numerous outlying agricultural settlements, that's it. There aren't countries with millions of people on them, once you're 50km outside the major settlements, chances of you finding another human are close to zero.
When you're dealing with so little real estate, you don't need major forces to garrison it.

Now, this isn't the case everywhere, major planets can and do approach Earth-like populations, and usually have major military forces stationed in system. But a lot of places exist solely because of the jump range of jump ships.

[Thom Frankfurt]

Semyon Drakon, on 02 April 2012 - 04:24 AM, said:

Keep in mind, an RCT is about 8 regiments of combined arms built around a mech regiment....no wonder Tikonov was a walkover.

Semyon

Totally. I'm still tripping on that 80 regiments of militia.

[Ranek Blackstone]

Jacob Carlyle, on 02 April 2012 - 11:01 AM, said:

You do have to understand that most planets do not resemble Earth in any way. They will have one or two major settlements at the point(s) where initial planetfall was made by the first colonists. These will have grown to moderate city size and will be supported by numerous outlying agricultural settlements, that's it. There aren't countries with millions of people on them, once you're 50km outside the major settlements, chances of you finding another human are close to zero.
When you're dealing with so little real estate, you don't need major forces to garrison it.

Now, this isn't the case everywhere, major planets can and do approach Earth-like populations, and usually have major military forces stationed in system. But a lot of places exist solely because of the jump range of jump ships.

This hits the nail on the head pretty well. Some planets have value ONLY because it's a good stopping off point to recharge the jump ship before going somewhere else, and will have minimal industry and population.

Often times though, the mechs will be deployed for high value targets, like space ports, and other major industral/military targets like mech factories. However, despite the power of a battle mech, conventional ground forces tend to be more cost effective over all. 3 guys in a 1mil C-Bill tank with a medium laser on it isn't much of a problem. 30 guys with 10 tanks with a mix of medium lasers and PPCs is a whole mess of speedy dakka that can seriously put the hurt on an assault mech.

[GrimFist]

Put this in perspective.

The SLDF had 486 Divisions, or 1458 brigades, or 4374 regiments when the fight to reclaim terra started.

At other times it had been this size:

At the birth of the Star League, the SLDF was comprised of ~270 regiments of ground forces (conventional armor, infantry and BattleMechs), as well as a fleet of greater than 500 capital vessels. At the outset of the Reunification War the SLDF was divided into 10 Corps. Each Corp was named based on its theater of operations and recruitment

Older history....

By 2764, the SLDF had over 15,000 regiments and just as many WarShips, JumpShips and DropShips.^[3] This force was organized into 125 BattleMech divisions, 200 mechanized infantry divisions, 75 jump infantry divisions, and 50 infantry divisions, with the rest fighting as independent regiments.^[4] These formations were further combined into 20 armies divided between several military regions.^[5]

Many of my role playing days with BT were about an offshoot of the SLDF that had been left behind.

Remember this: The better part of 113 divisions left with General Kerensky. Once the coup started he was at 486 divisions. I kinda give the guy grief for leaving town with his army. Considering what he started with he was down to 23 percent give or take a warship. No wonder he could put some dependents on the ships, they lost most of their manpower but had most of their fleet.

Another little twist of the words can be played this way. General Traitor Kerensky (I just like to rib the guy due to role playing) left with 6 million people. I call it propadanda if he said he left with 80 percent. Probably 80 percent of the ships that were left is more like it.

If he had 100 million, and left with 6.. Pretty low headcount per the divsions that left.

[Solis Obscuri]

Considering that any Great House has somewhere in the neighborhood of 30-80 mixed regiments of 'mechs, armor, and infantry assets, and a territory covering a hundred or more worlds, not every planet is going to have a solid defending presence. While capitals and strategically important centers will likely be well guarded, minor systems and periphery regions are unlikely to have anything more than a local militia at their disposal, with reinforcements possibly several jumps away. But for general purposes, I'd expect a planet that isn't completely out in the Boonies to have at least 2-3 regiments available within one jump - enough to counter a serious offensive, but not always enough to intercept small raids.

In terms of the game, standard battles are going to be company vs. company instances, so I don't think we need to really worry about server size on a by-planet basis.

[Gigaton]

SquareSphere, on 02 April 2012 - 04:36 AM, said:

The books before the clan wars mostly showed action (especially the mercenary books) below the company level (12) per planet.

Paladin1, on 02 April 2012 - 06:09 AM, said:

Like SquareSphere said, before the Clan Invasion, the average planet only had about a Company of `Mechs to defend it, not including the conventional forces.

IIRC, that's not a good overall picture for Inner Sphere during wartime even before Clan invasion. I think I'll need to re-read the 4th Succession War Military Atlas to confirm that, but 200-500 I stated is based on what I recall of those books (I don't have the books available where I'm now). There are planets that only have several battalion slugging out (up to 100 'mechs or so, both sides combined) but I'd say there are less important planets rather than 'normal' ones.

Edited by Gigaton, 02 April 2012 - 06:15 PM.

[Kael Tropheus]

Most planets called themselves lucky if they had a single company defending them. Quite a few planets relied totally on traditional armor and/or infantry and/or militia. Anything more than a company is a major investment in resources and most merc units do not have more than a company, and for a house to commit more than that on a single planet is them meaning business. The cost alone for such a venture is pretty high in dollar value. One thing I have noticed is most planets in the BT universe are relatively sparsely populated. A few major hubs on a planet and everything else is caught up in whatever trade they do. Therefore it really isnt hard for a single company or lance even to take many outlying planets.

With a company you are also sending the tech staff if there is one(most merc companies dont have indivdual mech techs but maybe one or two for the whole unit). More than a company for anything other than a raid and you need not only the mechs and pilots, you need ground security(possibly including armored vehicles), full tech staff for more than just fixing a slab of armor, commo people, aerospace support(and their tech staff). Supply and support people and stuff. Possibly ground or heli recon forces. Not a cheap proposition by any means for whoever is sponsoring it.

Edited by Kael Tropheus, 02 April 2012 - 06:19 PM.