71 replies to this topic

[Zhanna Kerensky]

Hello everyone,

I was just thinking that the battlemech instruments may hopefully indicate the unit callsigns of enemy players (preferably, not their MWO character account names, although there could be an overlap in callsign names but they would still be associated to the specific mech unit of the player) and that this could be linked to a few combat related in-game statistics, for instance, mech pilot weapon hit percentage, mech combat win vs. loss ratio, achieved pilot expertise level for the enemy mech, and battle awards.

What are your thoughts on this as the developers announced that they will provide more details about game awards soon? Should mechwarrior rankings (based on character game accounts) with regard to in-game statistics be implemented, for example, for each of the houses and for mercs in general? If so, what kind of ranking lists would you like to see?

Moreover, in addition to the stats and enemy mech type/armament/equipment picked up by one's own mech sensors would you regard certain battlemech paint schemes or the possibility to release audio battle cries or taunts towards other players on the battlefield via the external speakers of your mech as additional intimidating factors that could further enhance the atmosphere during combat and should therefore be included in MWO?

Edited by Zhanna Kerensky, 18 March 2012 - 05:14 PM.

[FireStorm2]

This sounds like it might require more information than could quickly and efficiently be conveyed by the HUD. Having someone's bracket rank might also feel out of place for immersion reasons unless you're fighting on Solaris.

That said, perhaps statistics will be tracked and available from outside the cockpit on a website or something. Statistics tracking seems to be catching on with games these days, and it could be pretty cool to check out.

Edited by Fire§torm, 18 March 2012 - 05:11 PM.

[The Cheese]

There is no reason to show player stats mid-battle. A player name and team ID is enough.

Outside battle, a set of player stats would be cool to see, and useful when sifting through applicants for Merc Units.

Edited by The Cheese, 18 March 2012 - 05:17 PM.

[Torment2]

I don't think you should get any information unless you're in the same outfit with people. Stats or callsigns in drops for the enemy? Only if they tell you in the drop. Helps with immersion. Helps with the idea that you actually can win every battle instead of some scrub telling his team to give up and die so everyone can get into another match. Less is more in some regards.

I personally don't like the metagaming aspect to stat tracking. As a pilot you're in it for your affiliation be it a House, Merc outfit, or Clan. Now tracking for an affiliation and plugging it into an HPGnet transmission when you log in everyday sounds cool, but personal stats? Track'em yourself, causes too much grief in the long run.

Word of mouth notoriety trumps any stat tracking hands down.

[Rugarou]

_Torment_, on 18 March 2012 - 05:23 PM, said:

I don't think you should get any information unless you're in the same outfit with people. Stats or callsigns in drops for the enemy? Only if they tell you in the drop. Helps with immersion. Helps with the idea that you actually can win every battle instead of some scrub telling his team to give up and die so everyone can get into another match. Less is more in some regards.

I personally don't like the metagaming aspect to stat tracking. As a pilot you're in it for your affiliation be it a House, Merc outfit, or Clan. Now tracking for an affiliation and plugging it into an HPGnet transmission when you log in everyday sounds cool, but personal stats? Track'em yourself, causes too much grief in the long run.

Word of mouth notoriety trumps any stat tracking hands down.

This right here says everything I was going to say myself.

In just about every game I've played that had publicly viewable personal stats resulted in a rift within the community and caused nothing but problems for community interaction. Publicly available personal stats is more so for epeen waving and those games that are focused on the induvidual over the team. They are not needed in MWO imo.

[The Cheese]

@_Torment_

I agree with what you say, but I think that officially recorded player stats will help with the competitive side of the game.

Not all players will be wanting to play for immersion or RP. Some will be here purely for the competitive scene. Being able to track the stats of someone you'll be competing against, or perhaps if you're a spectator or follower, would be very cool to be able to do.

[HeIIequin]

_Torment_, on 18 March 2012 - 05:23 PM, said:

I don't think you should get any information unless you're in the same outfit with people. Stats or callsigns in drops for the enemy? Only if they tell you in the drop. Helps with immersion. Helps with the idea that you actually can win every battle instead of some scrub telling his team to give up and die so everyone can get into another match. Less is more in some regards.

I personally don't like the metagaming aspect to stat tracking. As a pilot you're in it for your affiliation be it a House, Merc outfit, or Clan. Now tracking for an affiliation and plugging it into an HPGnet transmission when you log in everyday sounds cool, but personal stats? Track'em yourself, causes too much grief in the long run.

Word of mouth notoriety trumps any stat tracking hands down.

I think I mostly agree with this. Personal stats only you can see are fine, but word of mouth would spread news of good/bad players or units just like it would in canon. I wouldn't want someone to alt-tab and look up my stats on some leaderboard somewhere that showed everything about how I play and what I field (WoW armory comes to mind). I say if a player wants to know everything about other players, he should do the research himself, or play enough and learn through experience.

That said, I'm sure we'll have some kind of generic statistic tracking regardless. Pilot/unit/faction kill totals, win/loss ratios, etc. Even if it was info on your house/outfit only.

[Rugarou]

The Cheese, on 18 March 2012 - 05:32 PM, said:

@_Torment_

I agree with what you say, but I think that officially recorded player stats will help with the competitive side of the game.

Not all players will be wanting to play for immersion or RP. Some will be here purely for the competitive scene. Being able to track the stats of someone you'll be competing against, or perhaps if you're a spectator or follower, would be very cool to be able to do.

Those stats could also give intel to opponents that I do not want them to have. And as for the competitive scene, It is unit vs unit not 1 vs 1 so why would we need personal stats in this case?

[The Cheese]

Geaux Tiger, on 18 March 2012 - 05:36 PM, said:

Those stats could also give intel to opponents that I do not want them to have.

Sorry dude, but I gotta lol at this. Nobody, but NOBODY is going to go through the stats of every single opposing player before a match, and that assumes that you even know who you're up against in a given battle.

Geaux Tiger, on 18 March 2012 - 05:36 PM, said:

And as for the competitive scene, It is unit vs unit not 1 vs 1 so why would we need personal stats in this case?

It's unit vs unit FOR NOW. I fully expect a solo or team deathmatch style game mode to appear at some stage, perhaps in a Solaris game. At that time, the competitive side to MWO will really open up.

[Rugarou]

Quote

Sorry dude, but I gotta lol at this. Nobody, but NOBODY is going to go through the stats of every single opposing player before a match, and that assumes that you even know who you're up against in a given battle.

Oh they will trust me. People do it for WoW, Starcraft, CoD, BF, and just about any game that has a competitive league that carries personal stats. If you are not using the info on your opponents that is readily available then you are hurting yourself from the beginning.

Quote

I fully expect a solo or team death match style game mode to appear at some stage, perhaps in a Solaris game. At that time, the competitive side to MWO will really open up.

If/when this happens then maybe, a huge maybe, I could see some very selective personal stats being made public. KD ratio, time played, and favorite arena are about as much public info as I would want an opponent to know about without my opponents having to do his own homework.
**Edit** this would be only for those people who opt in to compete in any in game rankings or league.

Edited by Geaux Tiger, 18 March 2012 - 05:53 PM.

[The Cheese]

Geaux Tiger, on 18 March 2012 - 05:49 PM, said:

Oh they will trust me. People do it for WoW, Starcraft, CoD, BF, and just about any game that has a competitive league that carries personal stats. If you are not using the info on your opponents that is readily available then you are hurting yourself from the beginning.

You're only strengthening my argument there. What I'm saying is that nobody is going to do stat checks for non-competitive game modes, such as the game modes advertised to be available at launch. (when I say non-competitive, I mean that it's not ladder) There are 12 opposing players per match. Assuming that you know exactly who those players are before a match starts, I can't see how you will divine anything useful from their stats in the short time before the match starts. Before an organised match, maybe, but that is precisely the time when these kinds of stats would be useful.

Player stats in what will basically be random inter-house combat are not going to play a huge part in the battle.

Geaux Tiger, on 18 March 2012 - 05:49 PM, said:

If/when this happens then maybe, a huge maybe, I could see some very selective personal stats being made public. KD ratio, time played, and favorite arena are about as much public info as I would want an opponent to know about without my opponents having to do his own homework.
**Edit** this would be only for those people who opt in to compete in any in game rankings or league.

I'm confused. You don't want stats available that can be used against you, but you're happy to have things like KD, time played, and favourite arena showed? Those stats say a hell of a lot about your skills and play style.

[Sassori]

All out of battle only. In battle, the only thing that matters is the mech you're trying to kill before it kills you.

[Rugarou]

@ The Cheese:

Quote

You're only strengthening my argument there. What I'm saying is that nobody is going to do stat checks for non-competitive game modes, such as the game modes advertised to be available at launch. (when I say non-competitive, I mean that it's not ladder)

Ah but the problem with that is fighting and bidding over worlds as concerns mercs is competitive and directly pits one known entity against another outside of a ladder environment. Since this is competitive should we allow stats for those merc companies that participate in that portion of game or how about the house units? Just because you do not see those battles as competitive does not mean the folks who participate in them see it the same way. Where do we draw the line? I'm not strengthening your argument, I'm pointing out how far people will go to gather intel and debunking your argument that no one would bother to do it. If the stats were public, people will look at them. They will have them open in a second window and do a quick check before public matches to figure out who is who. Or they will browse over stats in their spare time becoming familiar with players over time.

Quote

I'm confused. You don't want stats available that can be used against you, but you're happy to have things like KD, time played, and favourite arena showed? Those stats say a hell of a lot about your skills and play style.

No where did I say I would be happy about it or want it. The term "maybe" does not consent to wanting or agreeing with something. It would take some strong reasoning to convince me that public stats for even a ladder environment would be justified. KD is a stat, along with W/L ratio, that might be justified given the nature of a ladder and having disclosure of how the rankings were achieved. So I could possibly see those being public if there was a strong outcry from the ladder players for that disclosure. But outside of that, the others I listed I would be open to arguments on why they should be listed. Outside of those though I won't give any consideration.

Edit: I still think that having personal stats made publicly available will be a detriment to the strong community bond we have here. I have seen nothing good come about from such stats being in other games. It ultimately causes divisions within the community (outside of the normal faction/clan type stuff) which brings about the epeen waving snobbery and elitist attitudes.

Edited by Geaux Tiger, 19 March 2012 - 02:20 AM.

[Kaine Vulpayne]

The Cheese, on 18 March 2012 - 05:15 PM, said:

There is no reason to show player stats mid-battle. A player name and team ID is enough.

Outside battle, a set of player stats would be cool to see, and useful when sifting through applicants for Merc Units.

I would even go one step further.
I rather would see the name of the Mech and not the pilot (for enemies). From a MechWarrior's perspective he doesn't see who sits inside the Mech he only sees the painting scheme - and it would be utterly cool, if the game would allows to individualize it.
And he probably sees the name of the Mech written on the torso, which shouldn't be a problem for a 31st century targeting computer to read the name and include it in the technical readout. It makes actually sense to use this data, e.g. to distinct two Mechs of the same type with different names.

I don't mind if the player name is listed in the mission summary at the end of the match, in the end you want to know who your adversaries were. But the idea described above would also give your Mech a chance to become somewhat famous and well-known as well, and it perfectly fit's the lore, as many mech warriors gave their mech a distinctive name. Also it gives the whole thing a notion of tamagotchi - when you name it, it means something to you and you care for it. Also from the developer's side it should be easier to allow a custom name label on the torso of each mech (maybe with several fonts to choose from) instead of a fully customizable painting scheme, which might never happen.

All this other statistical mumbo-jumbo has no place in the match. Also there is the danger, that player's only play to improve their statistics, if it is so overrated. This will lead to more egocentric gameplay, as it happened in dozen other games.

And from the immersion standpoint, should the game display player names I want an option to disable the name indicator, so my eyes can be spared the sight of "KKK_Supah_Killah" and "SITH_D4rth_Vad0r" and the likes.

[Felbombling]

As a statistics page or something like that, sure. As for putting up extra information on the HUD, no thanks. Call sign and Mech type, of course. Hit percentage and kills, etc... that goes beyond what I think we need for in game info. As the game goes on and we meet up with more and more players, I'm sure reputations will be earned.

[AdamBaines]

Interesting Poll. I like the Call-sign data as it would bring an element of competition beyond the fact your running a mission. Kill data and etc I dont like, just 'cause :-) I like info if its the right info in the right place, and it does not seem this info would fall into that. Plus it might clutter up the HUD. I suppose if we had the option of turning it off and on, that would be good. Or it might be good in a Solaris kinda atmosphere where there is a Grand Melee of some sort.

On the intimidation area, I think those aspect might bring an intimidation factor to the battle field, maybe not for everyone. I voted yes on all except The Audio (which would make me laugh I think, not intimidated) and Other.

[Akundis]

The Cheese, on 18 March 2012 - 05:42 PM, said:

Sorry dude, but I gotta lol at this. Nobody, but NOBODY is going to go through the stats of every single opposing player before a match, and that assumes that you even know who you're up against in a given battle.

I disagree with your statement as well...coming from a relatively large clan in WoT I know we used to do recon on the clans we were always facing in clan battles, looking up their highest tiered tanks, most played tanks, win/loss, etc and loading up our team accordingly.

You're right that people won't do this for public games, but there WILL be a competitive scene in MWO. Although I don't know how grabbing planets will work, if it's anything like WoT and you know who you're fighting before the battle (as they are scheduled so the defenders have time to react), I fully expect out of game recon to happen.

In the end I voted no..however, I am indifferent if my stats are able to be viewed or not. Just not in-game. If someone wants to go to a website and look me up, good for them.

Edited by Akundis, 19 March 2012 - 06:58 AM.

[MaddMaxx]

I Voted No. Stats are fine after the Kill.

Edited by MaddMaxx, 19 March 2012 - 06:59 AM.

[Bloody Moon]

My vote goes for stats since in LoL, HoN, SC2 and in WoT when i see ingame stats and it helps much to decide which strategy to use before the battle even against a certain player/team.

To take the examples from the games mentioned above in LoL and HoN if you see a high rated player playing one of his top5 champions/heroes playing against you my bet is on he will know the characters quite well and you can expect some great plays against you which is always good to know so you won't be caught by surprise.

A somewhat similar situation applies to SC2 where against diamond and master league players one can always expect comebacks from seemingly bad situations, while platinum players are half-decent most of the time and gold-silver-bronze are varied from quite decent to very bad.

In WoT (while in-game stats are only supported by addons) it is also very useful as it is one of the worst surprises when you don't know your own and the enemy team and suddenly you notice the team around you is wiped out or your flank is not guarded and you get shot in the back. When i see a team of very low efficiency rated and winrated team on my side i am usually much more careful as i know unless some of them are having a good day they won't be much of a help unless the opponents are equally incompetent. On the contrary if you see a great player on the other team who stands out from of them with 3-4-500 or more rating you know taking him out should be a priority over taking a lower player out.

All in all it is better to have a bit of elitism in the game and know if a player is bad (especially if that player is the commander) so he can make a good surprise if he performs well than to know nothing about them. In case you die due to the fact that you followed a bad player cos he asked you to do so or a good player asked you to follow and he dies cos you didn't do so since you doubted his competence it is even more important.

Edited by Bloody Moon, 19 March 2012 - 08:06 AM.

[MaddMaxx]

What needs to be avoided is the ability to LOOK UP stats while everyone sits in the Launch queue while some "commander" holds everyone hostage for 20 minutes "chill dude, I am checking every bodies stats!" while also having control of the "Launch" button...

That gets very OLD, very quick.

Edited by MaddMaxx, 19 March 2012 - 08:20 AM.