51 replies to this topic

[Silverlance]

So we see an increase in heat and punishment for high heat. We've seen movement tweaks which I think are great. BUT. And there's always a BUT in this game, which, is really sad. We've seen the return of poptarts. Honestly. Can you people actually show some backbone and skill and for once in your sad, pathetic existences not go with a current meta because everyone else is doing it? Because that's the actual issue right there. One person does it: ERPPCx3+/-Gauss on every single mech possible. I've even started seeing dual PPC Jenners. What a load of crap. Blaming PGI fixes nothing. It isn't their fault. They're actually trying hard to bring a good game to the table. The blame falls on you, the player base. For ruining what should be a great game to play with your severe lack of skills and your fear of death in a video game. Argue all you want in the defense of poptarts and PPC boats. No amount of arguing will ever change that fact that by using those builds, you are in fact a weak, skill-less noob who is too afraid to actually play the game fairly. Troll away noobs. Troll away.

Dear PGI. Level the playing field already. Implement weapon limitations and bring back the severe screen shake for jump jets. You had it spot on. You don't get "motion sickness" from a game. And if you do, you shouldn't be playing it in the first place. And for those players who still want to boat. Triple or quadruple their heat penalty and damage. That will stop all of this nonsense once and for all.

[Deishin]

Actually, you seems the only one who is scared to die in a videogame. If you dont like PPCs dont use them. I will use every combination of weapons im allowed to use in this game, you know why? Cause i can. I will NEVER let any arrogant person like you to decide how to play my game. Now cry some more please, its funny.

[Jam the Bam]

Woa someone rolled out of the wrong side of bed.

Go get some fresh air then maybe try posting something that isn't quite so demeaning/insulting/patronising and you will get a reasonable response.

As far as I can see you are angry that people use an effective build. If it is skill-less then its easy, which in turn means its effective. Thats not the playerbases fault.

And Fair? Seriously? wow.

[senaiboy]

I think you meant the high alpha meta, not the poptarts. Poptarts are still viable for skilled players but the JJ shake and reticle offset makes it a bit more challenging, and they can be suppressed by LRMs. I don't see poptarts being any more than pre-patch.

As for the high alpha meta, it is inevitable players will go with the most effective builds. To tell them not to use that is like telling you not to try to win. That said, Paul has just returned from his holiday and looking into this so be patient.

[Max Liao]

I don't like poptarting, and I don't believe that it should exist in a MechWarrior title. (Someone once had a suggestion that as long as you are jumping - from the moment you leave the ground to the moment you land - your weapons are offline. I'm totally cool with that idea.) With that said, it's in the game. I won't blame a player for playing with what the game gives him/her, but I will blame a developer for allowing it to exist.

I prefer balanced 'Mech, but when it comes to getting that "W" - especially if/when community warfare goes live - I will run the cheapest most meta-crunching builds (within my play style) that I can. Right now I don't care and will play nearly anything. When the "W" matters, I will cheese it through and through.

How does that saying go ... don't blame the player, blame the game.

[Rattazustra]

If it works, it will be done. Simple as that.

In reality we can blame the big bang, god, pink ponies or spaghetti monsters. In a computer game we can blame the developers. Simple as that.

If PGI makes something possible, it is entirely their job to make it balanced.


How to fix it? Relatively simple, I think. Increase weapons heat during jumping. 25% for light mechs, 50% for medium mechs, 75% for heavy mechs and 100% for assault mechs. Leaves only the Gauss rifle, but few jump capable mechs got many of those.

[XSerjo]

Yeah, 3xERPPC poptart-Phract are useful again. But now shooting (and hitting!!!) in midair requires much higher skill than peak-shooting. Please don't nerf something else, buff CQB weapons to normal.

[ecued]

there will always be mechs and builds that are better than others, the trick is to reward players for doing specific tasks condusive to their mech and class. should be a bonus for every different weapon type you score with, spotting and kill assists are good bonuses, hows about a tag and narc bonus also. say bonuses for evading more than 3v1 senarios. theres a lot that can be done. from my experience with other games, it seems to me that pirahna is doing a nice job so far in picking up slack and exploits. it is open beta, give them some time. i understand your frustraion, i'm the same way, but usually only after years of neglect and mismanagement. give them some time to straighten it out.

[Asmosis]

XSerjo, on 03 July 2013 - 03:00 AM, said:

Yeah, 3xERPPC poptart-Phract are useful again. But now shooting (and hitting!!!) in midair requires much higher skill than peak-shooting. Please don't nerf something else, buff CQB weapons to normal.

Not really, it was the overall shake not the recticle shake that made it harder to aim. if poptarts are hitting stuff accurately at 800-1200m, then obviously the changes have had no effect. Theres no more skill needed now than there was before since the majority fired on the way back down anyway.

[Divine Retribution]

So OP, your opinion is that jumping and nailing a target 500m+ out with current hit registration and netcode oddities requires less skill than two mechs walking up to each other and unloading from point blank range? I find that the opposite is often true. I prefer variety as well, but my perspective is that PPC warrior online is pretty much intended....

SRM nerf means that my Cat C-4, all of my streak-free Jenners and Ravens, and half of my assault's were garaged... We are still waiting for it to be corrected.

BAP and ECM changes discourages lights from getting too close, because larger mechs can carry a few streaks to ruin them. Not debating whether changes were good or bad, but the result is that lightly armored "hit and run" mechs were effectively nerfed.

Seismic is introduced, preventing a pilot smart enough to sneak up on the enemy from having any advantage. LRM boats and snipers can know when trouble is coming and act accordingly. Another blow to brawlers.

Movement changes prevents easy access to snipers perched on hills and hinders mobility. Long term trends from this aren't available yet, but it could very well be another blow for the brawlers who get stuck on small inclines. Attempting to circle an opponent rather than staring each other down and shooting now takes some level of situational awareness. Doesn't affect snipers much, especially those with jump jets. Should we put that into the "nerfed brawling" category?

Sniper weapons have been buffed considerably over the last year, again having an adverse effect on brawlers.

Most maps are released with very obvious positions for snipers. High elevation with cover, good view of anything that might be approaching.

I miss brawling too and I still do brawl from time to time. It's simply a lot more dangerous now. The current situation is a result of design, whether intentional or not, and only by design will it be changed. Then I can justify going back to my favorite mech and using a variety of loadouts. Until then when I snipe and/or poptart I won't feel bad; I consider it as evening things out from my use of PPCs while they were at the other end of the pendulum's path.

TL;DR: Well who's fault is that? I'm not CliffsNotes, so go ahead and scroll back up if you care to know what I wrote....

Edited by Divine Retribution, 03 July 2013 - 04:11 AM.

[White Bear 84]

Poptarts are back? Huh? Havent seen any all night....

[Edson Drake]

Quote

Poptarts are back? Huh? Havent seen any all night....

Believe me, soon you will...

Poptarts aren't a problem to me, just an annoyance. It's just a plain ridiculous style of gameplay.

People cried motion sickness, there you have it, they're back.

[Rippthrough]

White Bear 84, on 03 July 2013 - 05:22 AM, said:

Poptarts are back? Huh? Havent seen any all night....

You will, first thing I did yesterday.

[keith]

Rippthrough, on 03 July 2013 - 05:45 AM, said:

You will, first thing I did yesterday.

i find that hard to believe, first thing i did yesterday was shut off that damn alarm in my ears then take a ****

[Rippthrough]

keith, on 03 July 2013 - 05:49 AM, said:

i find that hard to believe, first thing i did yesterday was shut off that damn alarm in my ears then take a ****

You're not hardcore enough.

[Lucky 7]

Ah dude.. i Jumpsniped with the shake and I do without.
It's just not true that the shake was an issue. You could see Mechs with a shaking screen and pre aim a little, then let go of the jet and aim properly, shoot while falling.

Try it yourself maybe you enjoy it and become reasonable good at it as well.

[Mister Blastman]

Silverlance, on 03 July 2013 - 02:01 AM, said:

What a load of crap. Blaming PGI fixes nothing. It isn't their fault. They're actually trying hard to bring a good game to the table. The blame falls on you, the player base.

LOL. "Don't hate the player, hate the game."

If PGI makes a steaming pile of crap, what do you expect, a bunch of priests to anoint it, put on their coat of arms and cross lances on horseback? Nay. We've been infested by brigands and Saxons; foul men permeate the air and their sweat brings an unsettling stupor amidst our clamor.

To hate the player is ludicrous. It isn't their fault. It is PGIs for allowing all this to happen.

[Sarsaparilla Kid]

With the changes to how terrain affects mech movement, my Highlander can no longer climb over a small ridge to take steady shots, so instead of exposing my mech to return fire, I now need to use the jump jets to pop up to see what's happening and take a shot if it's there. Even trying to go around a hill is hard anymore if you clip too close to the edge. I seem to remember the previous versions of Mechwarrior having large arenas with fairly flat ground to duke it out on, and sometimes a few obstacles or barriers...would that be preferable? I much prefer the feel of dropping onto a planet with somewhat realistic terrain, but there needs to be some middle-ground on what we can do on the terrain for poptarting not to remain an effective strategy. Actually, I suffered from another strategy last night that you did not mention...a light mech circling me with TAG while I was having difficulty moving my Highlander around the basalt areas of Tourmaline and all the while a barrage of LRMs rained on me from far away and out of sight, and the hammering of the missiles, along with the explosions and smoke, prevented me from even seeing the light mech to blast it. At least with a poptart, you have a small amount of time to shoot back before they duck out of view...with unseen LRM boats, you don't. So, out of these effective strategies, poptart, LRM boat, PPC boat, Gauss-apult, dual AC20 or 5 AC2 Jagers, medium laser boat, and even light-mech lagshield, which are you not using to your advantage, and why?

[Hillslam]

I suspect the ones most complaining about "fairness" will be the ones to rush onto clan mechs so fast it'll make the server spin.

Oh the ironing

Edited by Hillslam, 03 July 2013 - 09:51 AM.

[Milt]

lets remove an option from the game, instead of fixing the underlying problem. < DUMB. the reticule shake has made it a little more different to poptart, like TT. now the heat penalty is trying to fix the high heat high alpha problem. the devs did it right this time. dont over nerf something and drive players away. gradually balance it until it is balanced. the next patch/hotfix will most likely increase the penalty for high heat which in turn will reduce the number of poptart / hillhumping high alpha snipers. ask for balance instead of removal of a playstyle. the more viable means to play this game mean more ppl will play this game. if you are hoping to have a little clique of players playing, make your own game.