439 replies to this topic

[Stahlseele]

And the most important thing for a real time combat simulation that needs immersiveness more than a boardgame:
IT WILL LOOK BETTER WITH HARD POINTS!
Else you would have missles coming out of the Hunchbacks AC.
Lasers coming from the shoulders of Catapults.
And so on.

[rollermint]

I'm very happy that they took the cue from MW4 and improved upon it. The current system retains some form of flair, char and uniqueness to the different mechs without making them pointless generic tin cans.

Particularly liking the visual custom system!

[Gerath Tanden]

If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Chassis specific modification certainly stops ridiculous customisations from appearing. This looks pretty darned awesome. Way to go guys.

[IronSardaukar]

This is amazing!

[Damocles]

Satisfied.

[HIemfire]

As the Mech Lab stands now I am frightened for ballistic and missile armed lights and lower tonnage mediums. One shot = dead mech. No matter how smart you pilot the mech an ammo crit is very bad news and with as little armor as the usual scouts will have covering their munition stores being a scout in an ammo dependant variant looks to equate to suicide. Being able to change out ammunition based weaponry for energy goes a long way to upping the pilots chances of getting a good lock for their company mates then getting out of Dodge. Being stuck with ammunition based weaponry means that even if you don't turn your back (anything larger than a small laser or machine gun can and will punch through the rear armor of most if not all light mechs in canon) the low end heavy weapon (Large Laser) will shred you in 1-2 hits. All "theory" on good scouting aside, scouts will be getting shot at and with what will be out there they will be dying at a faster rate than any of the heavier classes.

Summary: Ammunition based weapons on scouts = dead scout. Might as well make a Succession Wars era Ostscout out of the munitions based designs if you want to take them, less chance of blowing up that way.

Edited by HIemfire, 04 April 2012 - 03:23 PM.

[Belial]

HIemfire, on 04 April 2012 - 03:15 PM, said:

As the Mech Lab stands now I am frightened for ballistic and missile armed lights and lower tonnage mediums. One shot = dead mech. No matter how smart you pilot the mech an ammo crit is very bad news and with as little armor as the usual scouts will have covering their munition stores being a scout in an ammo dependant variant looks to equate to suicide.

I think they face this threat regardless of what the MechLab does... If you're that fearful of an easy ammo cookoff on the smaller guys then don't pilot one.

[Sporkosophy]

HIemfire, on 04 April 2012 - 03:15 PM, said:

As the Mech Lab stands now I am frightened for ballistic and missile armed lights and lower tonnage mediums. One shot = dead mech. No matter how smart you pilot the mech an ammo crit is very bad news and with as little armor as the usual scouts will have covering their munition stores being a scout in an ammo dependant variant looks to equate to suicide.

Being in a scout is suicide, even without ammunition. A single AC/20 can and will in the table top one shot almost any light mech you run into if it hits the center torso. Thus, one hopes they change the damage values somewhat.

[HIemfire]

Belial, on 04 April 2012 - 03:19 PM, said:

I think they face this threat regardless of what the MechLab does... If you're that fearful of an easy ammo cookoff on the smaller guys then don't pilot one.

Same thinking as was commonly argued in MW4 for not taking lighter mechs.

(edited due to knee jerk response being a bit crude)

Sporkosophy, on 04 April 2012 - 03:20 PM, said:

Being in a scout is suicide, even without ammunition. A single AC/20 can and will in the table top one shot almost any light mech you run into if it hits the center torso. Thus, one hopes they change the damage values somewhat.

An AC/20 is a far cry from a Large Laser. I'm hoping there is something to mitigate what I see as a major flaw in the system or the COM-2D and it's ilk will probably become hangar queens.

Edited by HIemfire, 04 April 2012 - 03:28 PM.

[Ironhawk]

Very nice evolution from MW4 MechLab. Dig the hardpoint system. Though it is not explicitely mentioned, I understand that electing not to equip jumpjets (on a JJ capable 'Mech of course) or sacrificing heat sinks will release hardpoints (and tonnage) to reallocate to weapons or armor (armour toujours l'armour!). Yes?

[Dayuhan]

Dihm, on 04 April 2012 - 09:22 AM, said:

It also raises the question that I didn't see answered: can you change from one armor type to another (from standard to ferro), or one engine type to another (from standard to XL) within the variant. Changing this alters the critical structure pretty significantly, so I'm going to guess not.

Technically it should be viable to upgrade to an XL from a standard engine as long as there are three slots available in the left and right torso in the initial design. If the left and right torso are already filled with other items then you are right it would take some major rework to fit in the bulkier XL engine.

[Belial]

HIemfire, on 04 April 2012 - 03:23 PM, said:

MW4 logic

How so? (not making the connection wth MW4)

Personally, my first ride is going to be a Jenner. It'll be nice to play in a game where the little guys haven't been nerfed. (now I reference MW4, lol)

[BerryChunks]

non canon and will still lead to munchkinizing and ruins the concept that you need a different mech for different jobs. Im out of here.

[HIemfire]

Belial, on 04 April 2012 - 03:26 PM, said:

How so? (not making the connection wth MW4)

Personally, my first ride is going to be a Jenner. It'll be nice to play in a game where the little guys haven't been nerfed. (now I reference MW4, lol)

Just the implied "even if it removes a mech from sane useability that doesn't make it unbalanced" in the statement. Not trying to imply that is what you ment to say, but the statement read along those lines.

The Jenner looks nice, I like arms though.

[Belial]

BerryChunks, on 04 April 2012 - 03:30 PM, said:

non canon and will still lead to munchkinizing and ruins the concept that you need a different mech for different jobs. Im out of here.

Right, because tabeltop's system that allows the swapping out of everything and making a non-canon laser boat is totally not meant for munchkins.

Yes, I'm lurking on this thread to defend this system proposed by MWO. I've been waiting for a proper MechLab for ages.

[BerryChunks]

Belial, on 04 April 2012 - 03:33 PM, said:

Right, because tabeltop's system that allows the swapping out of everything and making a non-canon laser boat is totally not meant for munchkins.

Yes, I'm lurking on this thread to defend this system proposed by MWO. I've been waiting for a proper MechLab for ages.

the rules that allowed that disregarded canon or simple logic of building battlemechs in the first place, and was for casuals who want guaszilla boats. That might be fun for some people, but the fun of the game is the tactical implications of not only choosing proper mechs but also how they are deployed and work together.

munchkin syndrome in MW3 and MW4 led to laser boats or guaszilla or LRM spam. Not that I couldn't kill 6 shadow cats a piece with my cauldron born in a laser boat match before going down, but it's just a ridiculous game that leaves you feeling unsatisfied. Hence why the swapping of weapons annoys me. Variants existed in battletech precisely because you cant swap out wily-nily.

http://mwomercs.com/...post__p__190496

Edited by BerryChunks, 04 April 2012 - 03:43 PM.

[Belial]

HIemfire, on 04 April 2012 - 03:23 PM, said:

Same thinking as was commonly argued in MW4 for not taking lighter mechs.

HIemfire, on 04 April 2012 - 03:31 PM, said:

Just the implied "even if it removes a mech from sane useability that doesn't make it unbalanced" in the statement. Not trying to imply that is what you ment to say, but the statement read along those lines.

The Jenner looks nice, I like arms though.

Okay. Yeah, that wasn't what I meant but I see the points made here. My argument is that all light 'Mechs have the impending threat of easier destruction, but MWO's game design should encourage playing as them anyway.

I notice that most opponents of this system are ignoring that everything else about the MechLab is canon, even with proper ciritcal spaces and tonnage and armor distribution (MW4's armor system was messed up).

BerryChunks, on 04 April 2012 - 03:37 PM, said:

the rules that allowed that disregarded canon or simple logic of building battlemechs in the first place, and was for casuals who want guaszilla boats.

I'm confused now as to which systems you do and do not favor. Elaborate, please? 'Cause MWO's system looks like it will prevent cauals from getting their cheesy Gausszilla boats. (I will admit to using such designs in instant action games for my own maniacal gratification, though.)

[Aegis Kleais]

Dirk Le Daring, on 04 April 2012 - 02:24 PM, said:

This is a great looking system

I would have only one request......The correct spelling for Armour and Colour. In the pics it is armor, in the dialogue it is armour. Nothing against our American friends, but it would be a nice change.

This could be easily handled via "localization files" What's funny that you mention that is (and this is just the American in me) I've noticed a lot of French/Canadian spellings like "favourite" and "colour" and it has the same instantly-stopping effect on me too

Localized files allow for things like this to be moot as we'll get the "proper" version for our region.

[Dirk Le Daring]

Aegis Kleais™, on 04 April 2012 - 03:46 PM, said:

This could be easily handled via "localization files" What's funny that you mention that is (and this is just the American in me) I've noticed a lot of French/Canadian spellings like "favourite" and "colour" and it has the same instantly-stopping effect on me too

Localized files allow for things like this to be moot as we'll get the "proper" version for our region.

This is good to know, as I had been under the impression that such things could not be changed.

Cheers mate

[Belial]

BerryChunks, on 04 April 2012 - 03:37 PM, said:

the rules that allowed that disregarded canon or simple logic of building battlemechs in the first place, and was for casuals who want guaszilla boats. That might be fun for some people, but the fun of the game is the tactical implications of not only choosing proper mechs but also how they are deployed and work together.

munchkin syndrome in MW3 and MW4 led to laser boats or guaszilla or LRM spam. Not that I couldn't kill 6 shadow cats a piece with my cauldron born in a laser boat match before going down, but it's just a ridiculous game that leaves you feeling unsatisfied. Hence why the swapping of weapons annoys me. Variants existed in battletech precisely because you cant swap out wily-nily.

http://mwomercs.com/...post__p__190496

Ahhhh, okay. Much better now.

Well, customization has been just as big a part of the franchsie as everything else, so we can't do away with it enitrely for the sake of tactical variant choices. Besides, it may not be an instant or cheap process, and even the variants will have different customization options (see my comment on the standard Hunchback versus the Swayback). Hopefully this system addresses the boating problems that all previous games have faced. Even without the customization, the light 'Mechs have THREE bigger 'Mechs armed with big ACs to worry about (Centurion, Hunchback and Atlas). How well they fare is up to the pilot.