439 replies to this topic

[Sporkosophy]

Did you even read the article? They said that wasn't how it would appear in the final game.

[Solis Obscuri]

Sporkosophy, on 04 April 2012 - 04:13 PM, said:

A large laser can still be penetrating on the second hit. Scout mechsBattle armor is fragile because it's so small and meaningless. The Commando has always been a death trap, just as every light mech in the game.

HIemfire, on 04 April 2012 - 04:23 PM, said:

Thus bring into question the viability of scouting in a sim like this. Give the targeting info then run and pray you don't get hit.... One maybe two times of performing your role a match before dying is not really all that efficent and looks right now to be questionably effective. Remember, this is not the table top where you control multiple mechs and other units. We are the pilots and our progress is directly tied to our success which a fair portion of which is tied to what happens when we get hit. We will get hit no matter how good we get at evading. Piloting a laser designator wrapped in blasting caps wrapped in tinfoil does not look like it will end up staying fun, if it is at all, for long.

If you're piloting a Commando like it's an Atlas, you're doing it wrong.

[Sporkosophy]

Solis Obscuri, on 04 April 2012 - 06:53 PM, said:

If you're piloting a Commando like it's an Atlas, you're doing it wrong.

The Commando in particular needs thought of less as a mech, but rather as a mugger. It's not there for a straight up fight, but it has the firepower to severely damage mechs above its weight class. So you want to stick as far away from the main fighting as possible; jump the guy pulling back due to heat/damage issues, and then fade away to have your way with his buddies.

[PhunkPhorce]

An important question that has not been asked is will we be able to add that head antenna to our mechs?? That thing would look great on top of an Atlas!

[Togg Bott]

Sporkosophy, on 04 April 2012 - 03:20 PM, said:

Being in a scout is suicide, even without ammunition. A single AC/20 can and will in the table top one shot almost any light mech you run into if it hits the center torso. Thus, one hopes they change the damage values somewhat.

no, no,no,NO. i want the fear of a ac/20 in the back of my mind. a ac/20 is designed to kill heavy and assualt mech and do it quickly. so yes. if i get hit witha ac/20, i'm supposed to explode/die/whatever not keep running cause someone doesnt like being cored with one shot.

scouts aint for everyone.

[nitra]

Very dissapointed in the hardpoint system . to much of a limitation in my opinon . im sure with variant this will ease this restriction but i was really looking forward to truly customizable mechs. when will we ever get a proper 3d presentation of the board game?

[Orzorn]

nitra, on 04 April 2012 - 08:23 PM, said:

Very dissapointed in the hardpoint system . to much of a limitation in my opinon . im sure with variant this will ease this restriction but i was really looking forward to truly customizable mechs. when will we ever get a proper 3d presentation of the board game?

We ARE getting a proper representation. Have you closely read the lore? Inner Sphere battlemechs are NOT omni-mechs, meaning they can not swap weapons out on the fly. Hardpoints actually represent that very well.

I'm personally a very happy camper. They actually pretty much used my exact ideas from several years ago. Hard points and criticals work hand in hand to create a system where mechs aren't just bags of guns, but you don't end up with Mechwarrior 4 levels of failure, where criticals no longer exist (meaning no ammo explosions or critical hits. What a shame).

[nitra]

Togg Bott, on 04 April 2012 - 08:11 PM, said:

no, no,no,NO. i want the fear of a ac/20 in the back of my mind. a ac/20 is designed to kill heavy and assualt mech and do it quickly. so yes. if i get hit witha ac/20, i'm supposed to explode/die/whatever not keep running cause someone doesnt like being cored with one shot.
scouts aint for everyone.

yes the ac 20 should be feared, but with a proper system in place. it should be also feared by the pilot as well, since it could be easily crippled due to all its required criticals , and if thats not enough a pilot should be really worried about all that ammo stored in his torso some place . that is what would make this game awesome . real drawback to having certain weapon systems. lasers are great but they are hot . ballistics are cool but may go boom . Gauss cannons are swell but where the hell do you put it ?
there is no need to really balance the weapons against each other damage wise. Just let the weapons pros and cons be the factor that balances it . To many games are ruined by this whole balance tug of war . It would be really refreshing to see a game that would respect that all weapon systems are not balanced but they do have their pros and cons.

Edited by nitra, 04 April 2012 - 08:44 PM.

[nitra]

Orzorn, on 04 April 2012 - 08:34 PM, said:

We ARE getting a proper representation. Have you closely read the lore? Inner Sphere battlemechs are NOT omni-mechs, meaning they can not swap weapons out on the fly. Hardpoints actually represent that very well.

I'm personally a very happy camper. They actually pretty much used my exact ideas from several years ago. Hard points and criticals work hand in hand to create a system where mechs aren't just bags of guns, but you don't end up with Mechwarrior 4 levels of failure, where criticals no longer exist (meaning no ammo explosions or critical hits. What a shame).

i really do not understand why its impossible to have both .

but there is no reason we cannot have bag of gun mechs. if the programing was thoughtfull enough and employed the proper heat critical and ammo systems then it would balance out properly .



if we are going full on lore then fine i can drop it at that .

[LordDeathStrike]

nice, paul took my suggestions word for word and implemented them well a ton of us wanted it this way, itll be nice and balanced and we wont see any atrocious mechs out there (well paint schemes asside)

nitra, on 04 April 2012 - 08:23 PM, said:

Very dissapointed in the hardpoint system . to much of a limitation in my opinon . im sure with variant this will ease this restriction but i was really looking forward to truly customizable mechs. when will we ever get a proper 3d presentation of the board game?

we dont want board game exploits like an 18 machine gun assault mech that can kill another assault mech in 2 seconds, no thank you.

[Felbombling]

Odanan, on 04 April 2012 - 06:23 PM, said:

I'm a long time tabletop player but I always thought the Endo Steel and Ferro Fibrous slot setting as unnecessary and erroneous. IMO, the only requirement should be having the required 14 free slots (or 7 for clan). As you can't destroy these Endo/Ferro slots AND in fact they are DISTRIBUTED over all the mech, you shouldn't have to assign critical points for them.

I think the 14 crit slots were to make some sort of penalty for the bonus tonnage. Otherwise the ability to fit double heatsinks in for the bonus tonnage would be too easy. Still, if you had a choice, 99% of the time you would go with Endosteel, as the weight savings were better overall than the Ferro armour bonus for IS.

[BerryChunks]

nitra, on 04 April 2012 - 08:35 PM, said:

yes the ac 20 should be feared, but with a proper system in place. it should be also feared by the pilot as well, since it could be easily crippled due to all its required criticals , and if thats not enough a pilot should be really worried about all that ammo stored in his torso some place . that is what would make this game awesome . real drawback to having certain weapon systems. lasers are great but they are hot . ballistics are cool but may go boom . Gauss cannons are swell but where the hell do you put it ?
there is no need to really balance the weapons against each other damage wise. Just let the weapons pros and cons be the factor that balances it . To many games are ruined by this whole balance tug of war . It would be really refreshing to see a game that would respect that all weapon systems are not balanced but they do have their pros and cons.

Exactly. There was a game called Chromehounds, which was a modular based system mech game. Seriously, the guns had hexagon panels surrounding them so that they clicked together like legos. Anyway, this system worked really well, and the limitations of how much you could put on was designated by your leg type. Unfortunately, due to a system that didnt weight the guns against each other properly (like criticals and other drawbacks), because some weapons were clearly superior with splash, damage, range, and weight/energy cost, thats all the mechs consisted of at the end. Chromehounds failed because, while its perfectly okay to have weapons that do vastly differing amounts of damage, there needs to be drawbacks enough to prevent any one weapon from being the obvious choice.

If it can be abused, it will be abused. People are clever enough to figure out the best of the best build, and games will devolve into those builds, if pros and cons aren't harshly enforced for all weapon systems.

Togg Bott, on 04 April 2012 - 08:11 PM, said:

no, no,no,NO. i want the fear of a ac/20 in the back of my mind. a ac/20 is designed to kill heavy and assualt mech and do it quickly. so yes. if i get hit witha ac/20, i'm supposed to explode/die/whatever not keep running cause someone doesnt like being cored with one shot.

scouts aint for everyone.

additionally, AC/20's are extremely weighty, require leading time to hit, as a ballistic weapon, and have a short range. If someone in a light mech is getting hit by an AC/20, they're doing it wrong.

[Solis Obscuri]

Togg Bott, on 04 April 2012 - 08:11 PM, said:

no, no,no,NO. i want the fear of a ac/20 in the back of my mind. a ac/20 is designed to kill heavy and assualt mech and do it quickly. so yes. if i get hit witha ac/20, i'm supposed to explode/die/whatever not keep running cause someone doesnt like being cored with one shot.

scouts aint for everyone.

Seriously, if the big guns don't kill quick, the game becomes all about "boating" lasers and mguns and missiles.

Besides, the devs have already told us that light mechs are hard to hit, that taking a direct shot from a heavier mech ruins a light mech pilot's day, and that no one (so far as Garth can recall) has been one-shotted yet. I really don't think there's any cause for alarm, this sounds pretty playable!

[Wyzak]

This is great, I love hardpoints as a system and I'm glad you explained that modules are like tactical software upgrades. Also, I see that we have to reserve critical space for Endo Steel (and presumably Ferro Fibrous) I think that's a step forward from MW4. Lastly I think the skinning system is very robust so thanks for your work on that.

[DaMuncha]

I do not like the hardpoint system, in fact I hated it with a passion in MW4. it was the worst thing that could be done to mechwarrior. I dont like munition based wepaons. If I want my mech to use nothing but lasers, I should be able to arm nothing but lasers. I dont want crappy machine guns or autocannons on my mechs.

BOOOOOO!

[Leitwolf]

This is great! I´m so happy about the visual costumation!!! THANKS!!
Will there be costum-Insignias too?

Edited by Leitwolf, 04 April 2012 - 10:34 PM.

[Wyzak]

DaMuncha, on 04 April 2012 - 10:33 PM, said:

I do not like the hardpoint system, in fact I hated it with a passion in MW4. it was the worst thing that could be done to mechwarrior. I dont like munition based wepaons. If I want my mech to use nothing but lasers, I should be able to arm nothing but lasers. I dont want crappy machine guns or autocannons on my mechs.

BOOOOOO!

Well, if there are three energy slots, you can always use three of the hottest energy weapons and then use all the free space for double heat sinks so you can fire them really fast, this is what I did in MW4. It's entirely reasonable to have non-omni mechs restricted from certain weapons combinations to keep them on track with canon. For what it's worth, I hope you don't run into a situation while designing a mech that makes it game-breakingly unenjoyable. But I like being forced to use different weapons once in a while.

[DaMuncha]

The hardpoint system was the worst thing about ME4 and I hated it so much it forced me to stop lplaying, and I cant believe they forced it in MWO. Its horrible.

I am so angry right now, cause its killed MWO for me. I wont put up with this ****, sorry. I cant stand it. I've been waiting 10 years for a new Mechwarrior game and they go and pull this **** on me.

Edited by DaMuncha, 04 April 2012 - 10:57 PM.

[BTBWolf]

Needs more colours, gonna make me a RainbowCat.

Also, I guess hardpoints do make sense in a way, but maybe (for a *lot* of c-bills, so much c-bills even really awesome players will wince) you can swap the order of ballistics, missles, energy, etc., and minus or add certain weapon types at the expense of others, that way it's not *SET* but *SET-ish*.

[DaMuncha]

MWO Has:
No Clans
No Clan Mechs
No Omni mechs
Restricted Jump Jets.
Forced Hardpoints.
XP to use upgrades.

Why the hell would I want to play MWO?. they've taken out everything I loved about the mechwarrior games.

Didnt he say in the GDC interview that we could customise mechs as much we want? It sounds pretty restrictive to me.

Edited by DaMuncha, 04 April 2012 - 11:10 PM.