36 replies to this topic

[PanzerMagier]

Why do the majority of you persist in exploiting the meta? Is it absolutely necessary that you must abuse any weapon that will be nerfed in the very near future? Do you want MWO to be a bad game? Is it too much to ask for some sportsmanship? I feel like the only person who plays like he wants to, regardless of the meta. I like think winning a game on my own skill rather than abusing some cheap broken ~soon-to-be-fixed~ mechanic, is far more rewarding.

Just an honest series of questions. Please respond with civil and constructive answers.
Thank you.

[Jestun]

How will the metrics recorded from our matches show PGI where the balance problems are if people don't use unbalanced setups?

They cannot take forum posts at face value when making balance decisions, they need to assess the actual data. The data is only there if we provide it by using the setups.

This is a beta test, not a released game.

[AntiCitizenJuan]

People like it easy. It makes them feel good at the game.

Its a sad reality of online gaming, I'm sure a lot of you remember the M16A1 in CoD4.

A lot of people naturally gravitate towards what is OP

Edited by AntiCitizenJuan, 23 May 2013 - 11:53 AM.

[Belphagor]

Im just getting months of pent up LRMing out after ECM & then the major drop (splash etc)- I should have a post floating around here somewhere that said they just need to do the 120 speed increase first (with no other changes) and see how that played out without changing 3 things at once... that would've taken them closer to usable w/o being overused. As LRM user prior to them being meta beasts again- I'd like to be able to use them w/o being yelled at for abusing an overpowered weapon.

[blinkin]

Jestun, on 23 May 2013 - 11:45 AM, said:

How will the metrics recorded from our matches show PGI where the balance problems are if people don't use unbalanced setups?

They cannot take forum posts at face value when making balance decisions, they need to assess the actual data. The data is only there if we provide it by using the setups.

This is a beta test, not a released game.

agreed, but the real reason is people like to gloat and you can't really gloat if you don't win. so, exploiting is the natural conclusion.

[Vassago Rain]

PVP game.

[Mechteric]

Dear OP,

Welcome to the internet.

signed,
The Internet

[DaZur]

Jestun, on 23 May 2013 - 11:45 AM, said:

How will the metrics recorded from our matches show PGI where the balance problems are if people don't use unbalanced setups?

They cannot take forum posts at face value when making balance decisions, they need to assess the actual data. The data is only there if we provide it by using the setups.

This is a beta test, not a released game.

In fairness...

How does data from a broken mechanic benefit PGI? They "know" it's broken, have aknowledged that it's broken, and have voiced intent to fix it... The premise that abusing it will provide any value is at face value... dare I say, "broken".

Edited by DaZur, 23 May 2013 - 12:11 PM.

[FunkyFritter]

http://www.sirlin.ne...win-part-1.html

It's a little long, but it does a pretty good job of explaining the mindset.

[Mawai]

There are lots of reasons actually ...

1) Many people like LRMs (not me personally) and were quite disappointed by the needed nerfs ... as a result they are pulling out all their LRM builds and playing them again. e.g. Catapult with 2xLRM20 and 2 small lasers ... is pretty useless unless LRMs are on the overpowered side. Some folks REALLY like these mechs and want to play them but did not want to do so when they were demonstrably hurting the team by doing so.

2) Many people are tired of sniper PPC/Gauss (whoever decided that these weapons should have the same projectile speed was an ... [deleted ] ... ... this just made boating two totally different weapons trivial) ... so they jumped on the opportunity to use LRMs instead.

3) The one that really bothers me though are SSRMs. With BAP and the splash damage bug these have gone back to being incredibly effective. I've seen folks bring out their streak cats which I haven't seen in months because ECM shut them down. SSRMs are annihilating light mechs ... because they don't need to be aimed ... just locked. However, I can't really blame folks for playing them ... they are effective and it is nice to splat those irritating ECM light mechs that used to be immune to almost anything

4) Some folks just play whatever is most effective ... FOTM ... at the moment that appears to be LRMs.

Now depsite the prevalence of LRMs and the effectiveness ... I have NOT seen lots of LRM boats scoring over 1000 damage/match the way it used to be ... so LRMs are likely not as bad as they were the last time PGI messed up LRMs. I have seen a streak cat do over 725 ... and some other higher damage totals but not as bad as LRMs used to be.

[blinkin]

DaZur, on 23 May 2013 - 12:11 PM, said:

In fairness...

How does data from a broken mechanic benefit PGI? They "know" it's broken, have aknowledged that it's broken, and have voiced intent to fix it... The premise that abusing it will provide any value is at face value... dare I say, "broken".

same reason you conduct an autopsy or investigate an explosion. you study it to see exactly what went wrong and why it went wrong. sometimes a huge mistake only requires a very small correction.

[Tibs]

people. like to tear down then build up,

[Nightcrept]

In this case it must be the pent up frustration from the sniper wars.

Because the damage per ton of LRM's is still abysmal. If you take a lrm mech your pretty much dooming yourself to a mediocre score with almost no chance of having a good game unless you have really good secondary weapons. (So a stalker boat extraordinaire.)

As I continue to say the number of lrm launchers per mech need to be limited in some way so that we can properly balance single launchers without making them op when boated.

[Ngamok]

I have 1 LRM boat, 1 SRM boat, 1 SSRM boat and 1 ER PPC boat out of 26 mechs. I think I do pretty good without having to boat on every mech and chassis.

Ooops, and 1 ML boat (CDA-2A).

Edited by Ngamok, 23 May 2013 - 12:39 PM.

[keith]

PanzerMagier, on 23 May 2013 - 11:42 AM, said:

Why do the majority of you persist in exploiting the meta? Is it absolutely necessary that you must abuse any weapon that will be nerfed in the very near future? Do you want MWO to be a bad game? Is it too much to ask for some sportsmanship? I feel like the only person who plays like he wants to, regardless of the meta. I like think winning a game on my own skill rather than abusing some cheap broken ~soon-to-be-fixed~ mechanic, is far more rewarding.

Just an honest series of questions. Please respond with civil and constructive answers.
Thank you.

this would not be called playing the meta. it would be called exploiting a bug that PGI knew about but put in anyway. meta is when u play something that works, but is also working as intended. LRM are bugged right now, therefor exploiting

[Jabilo]

Ultimately you can not blame people for playing the game offered to them.

This is the game we are given and this is the game we play.

When missiles were broken previously, PGI released a hot fix in a matter of hours.

Hours.

It is well within their capability to do so if they really want to and they have already demonstrated this, so it is incontrovertible.

If they are quite happy to wait days or even weeks to address it (they made an official statement to say it may not be fixed until the next patch) then they obviously feel it is not badly broken.

So if they are cool with it then I guess you might as well adapt or just take a break till the next patch...

I sympathise; LRMs are ridiculous. But expecting people to play by your personal imaginary rules of honour is an exercise in futility and I would recommend not getting upset over it.

Do what I am going to do...

Have a couple of beers and watch some old Star Trek!

[Tarl Cabot]

Nightcrept, on 23 May 2013 - 12:35 PM, said:

In this case it must be the pent up frustration from the sniper wars.

Because the damage per ton of LRM's is still abysmal. If you take a lrm mech your pretty much dooming yourself to a mediocre score with almost no chance of having a good game unless you have really good secondary weapons. (So a stalker boat extraordinaire.)

As I continue to say the number of lrm launchers per mech need to be limited in some way so that we can properly balance single launchers without making them op when boated.

The real issue is the fracking splash damage and the continuing softening of the CT. What is funny is watching what happens to the mechs on the training grounds (shudders).

If they had NOT the damage at all but only the speed and angle of attack we would still be seeing the same issue and similar result due to both the bugged angle of attack on in direct fire and the non-patched splash damage.

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 23 May 2013 - 01:22 PM.

[Soy]

Most people in life are tryhards, can't really blame them.

[Pater Mors]

Mawai, on 23 May 2013 - 12:17 PM, said:

Now depsite the prevalence of LRMs and the effectiveness ... I have NOT seen lots of LRM boats scoring over 1000 damage/match the way it used to be ... so LRMs are likely not as bad as they were the last time PGI messed up LRMs. I have seen a streak cat do over 725 ... and some other higher damage totals but not as bad as LRMs used to be.

I will admit to buying an A1 after the patch because I was really looking forward to the return of the LRM and it was great fun running 2x LRM15's. Then I decided to go to a StreakCat and see what all the fuss was about and... yeah... they're a tad cheesy and that's a word I NEVER use. I'd say they're much worse than LRM's. I only get killed when I'm stupid enough to let them hit me. With a StreakCat if they get in range you're in trouble.

Victims in two days with a StreakCat:

Countless lights. I've always ran Light-Killer builds but this is just ridiculous. 2v1. 3v1. ECM. No problem.
Fully armored Stalkers 1v1
Fully armored Highlanders 1v1
Fully armored Atlas 1v1
Mediums 2v1

It's just a tad crazy. Then you switch out one SSRM for a NARC and some ammo and suddenly anyone you fight is also getting 5000 LRM's raining down on them per second.

I won't go as far as saying its 'broken waah wahh fix it!' but the StreakCat does need some sort of penalty to balance out it's complete effectiveness. There's almost no down side. Full armor, 72kph, jump jets and not much in the way of aiming skill required it's not even elite yet. Being confined to extreme short range is not enough I don't think.

[Homeless Bill]

1. Everyone else does it, so why run at a disadvantage?
2. This is Beta, and PGI needs to know what's imbalanced; the more people run cheese, the more obvious the problem.
3. For anyone running try-hard 8-mans, you either learn to use the meta to your advantage or lose.