98 replies to this topic

[TroglodyteJB]

AtomicFrawg, on 01 November 2012 - 08:15 AM, said:

Trial mech are not gimped.They are the same mechs/ load outs you can buy. They do fine in battle, again if you don't go trying to Call of Duty it out on the battlefield.

I didn't say they were gimped; I said that it gimps the LOADOUT AND PREP portion of the game, which is a big part of why Mechwarrior is cool. I could play MechAssault on my xbox if I wanted zero-customization BattleTech.

But now that you mention it... The Raven 2X is stock, but it's not one I'd pick in any BattleTech iteration. Sacrificing all the EW modules for a large laser is not a tradeoff I've ever liked. That's preference, though.

[Mechteric]

How about improving it rather than wholesale removal of it. See my new thread to discuss that idea here: http://mwomercs.com/...of-trial-mechs/

[Kmieciu]

Kaputnik, on 01 November 2012 - 09:51 AM, said:

Trials compared to stock are equal.
Of course trials compared to tweaked are not equal.
Sorry but it always sounds like you are ignoring teamplay and skill, that weights more than just Trial VS Beefed version.

I know that trial mechs and founder mechs are just stock variants from TT game.
I just point out that the DEVs abandoned the TT rules when they increased the rate of fire of all the weapons with little or no change to heat per shot. That means that heat generation per 10 seconds has been increased by 2 to 10 times while the cooling rates are kept from TT game. So in TT it would take a couple of rounds of alpha striking to overheat a stock Raven, when in MWO it takes less than 10 seconds (so less than one round).


If the matchmaker pitted the trials only against other trials it would be fair, and I`m all for it.

But that does not change the fact that a new player is given a useless loadout and his best strategy is not to use some of those weapons at all. It`s simply a badly designed gameplay experience.

Edited by Kmieciu, 01 November 2012 - 10:31 AM.

[Xantha]

Personally, I'm against the Grind or Pay model that PGI chose. There is already plenty of evidence in the community that suggests PGI could have opted for a more open and fun free experience and made significant coin off tournament entry fees, and eye candy. The community has already done 2-3 tournaments and started up it's own league. PGI could have added this all in game and charged players entry fees with a variety of flavors. lance on lance, solo tournament and full on company on company. Host one or two of these a month with $1 or $2 entry fees (per person). They could even mix it up with some tournaments being custom mechs and others stock or trial mechs, etc. This method allows anyone who is interested to pay some money to PGI without giving anyone an advantage over the others in combat. PGI could even offer in game rewards such as tourney boobleheads, skins or tshirts as added incentives.

With that EVERYONE should be on equal footing when it comes to random matches, pugging etc. Cbills could flow a little more allowing players to tinker and have fun with their accounts vs running away and shutting down in hopes of saving cbills when your team is losing. (Seen a lot of that lately)

Unfortunately the chosen direction doesn't do that. We've screamed in Closed Beta, people are screaming now, it's simply not going to change.

I just hope this choice, doesn't scare away too many free players because EVERY F2P game needs the 95% that don't pay in order to survive.

[LazDude2012]

Give new players 4M CBills at the start.
-OR-
Give new players 1 free 'Mech, which, when sold, gives a ridiculously low turnout, at the start.
-OR-
Give new players a huge (70%+) discount on their first 'Mech purchase.

--AND--
Have trial 'Mechs for every variant, not just the crap ones.

All this will make the game experience enjoyable again.
I was in the Beta when they gave MC, that was cool. It let me experience the whole game, not just the combat.
Basically, PGI needs to have a little faith, instead of treating the players as cash cows to be painfully milked.

[Kmieciu]

Stormfury, on 01 November 2012 - 10:26 AM, said:

EVERY F2P game needs the 95% that don't pay in order to survive.

This is a fact confirmed by the lead designer of Battlefield Heroes (F2P).

Some of you founders say "Don`t give free players anything because I payed $60/$120 for my mech/s".
Guess what - If MWO goes under because of the lack of new players, they`ll shut down the servers and you`ll loose your precious mechs.

Edited by Kmieciu, 01 November 2012 - 10:51 AM.

[Kmieciu]

Alex Wolfe, on 01 November 2012 - 08:33 AM, said:

Here's hoping those changes don't just mean "trial mechs are now on cooldown until the match ends", or some other symptom-treatment-only idea like that.

http://mwomercs.com/.../66088-farming/

Abandon all hope :-)

[Alex Wolfe]

Kmieciu, on 01 November 2012 - 11:02 AM, said:

http://mwomercs.com/.../66088-farming/

Abandon all hope :-)

Yeah, I heard about that.

I meant that here's hoping it's not the ONLY change. People grind that way because the starting experience was made terrible, slapping on more and more restrictions is only handling the symptoms, not the cause.

Bottom line: there would be less farming if starting player experience was fun.

Edited by Alex Wolfe, 01 November 2012 - 11:16 AM.

[GeneralFitzhugh]

The Trial Mechs, in my opinion, has been properly implemented. A new player can just jump in and get a feel for the game without any worries. Repairs and ammo are free and they get to keep all of the C-bills. It does not take that many games to earn enought C-bills to get a starter mech.

Lets be honest, if you are new to the game, you should be happy to be able to jump and learn how to run a mech properly before you put up your hard earned C-bills or MC.

Also, the devs will be rotating the trial mechs so you can try them out without having to blindly make a commitment.

One last thing, the final purpose of the trial mechs is to allow a way for a player to earn C-bills if the owned mechs are so badly damaged that they don't have enough to repair them.

So my position is to leave the trial mechs as is.

[Mordin Ashe]

I generally agree, there should be more trial mechs and all should mount an AMS, no arguing here.
That being said, the current trial mech selection is the best so far!

[Harrels Badgerton]

I think the trials are just fine.

Most of the complaints are that you can't customize them and you don't get XP, but they are made for new players of the game. New players don't know what the hell any of this stuff means, never mind what customizing it can get them. They don't know how to drive a mech, aim - holy HELL have you seen some people trying to shoot since OB? - or anything else. They get to learn and still make money.
People who have been playing already know what they want, what they want to do with it, and how good it can be. If you can't be bothered to sit through a "grind" to get it then PUT SOME MONEY DOWN. It's a hassle, but it's a free hassle and you get to shoot robots.

[Xenok]

I responded with this on a different thread but think it quite appropriate to put here as well.

To rephrase the title "What should the player start with?" I think the trial mechs are a bad idea. Part of what makes this game fun is customizing mechs and trying out your own ideas. Take that away and at least half, I would argue more, of the good experience goes bad.

To address this I would suggest the following.

* A single bay on every account which is your trial mech bay.
- Any mech can be purchased free of charge in this bay.
- If you replace one mech with another in this bay all expenses customizing the mech would be lost, but you would get the new mech for free.
- The mech in this bay would play just like any other mech. You would have to pay for repairs and reloads, just like anything else. You would also gain money just like anything else. No penalties.
- The mech in this bay would give a 10% increase in CB for the first 20 matches played on an account, but only for the first 20 matches played. Note this is not the first 20 matches played with a mech from this bay, after 20 matches were played this bonus would no longer exist regardless of which mech was played for the 20 matches.

This would allow a new player to try any mech, as many different mechs as you choose with no cost to the players cbills. It would allow older players to try anything out that comes out without cost to determine if they wanted to buy. If you went through and tried a couple of customizations you would have to buy those. If you then choose to swap out that mech for a new one to try out you would loose the money those customizations cost. This encourages people to buy the mech they find they like. It would also give a bit of extra money to the new players while they get use to the game, allowing less of a hit to the cbills while getting the feel for the game.

[JingleHell]

I think the ideal solution would be to increase C-bills earned on a new account by ~5-7x for say, 10 games. A 5x increase would, in trials, put you at 300k per game for your first 10 games, if you accomplished nothing and lost every game.

That would put people who aren't absolutely abhorrent in a medium mech they bought for themselves around the time the bonus ran out, or they could choose to continue saving. The hard cap on the bonus by games would prevent abuse.

[Saint Scarlett Johan]

Since when did grinding equate simply playing the game?

Yeah, I'm a founder. But I rock the trial Cent and Awesome more than my founders Atlas or YLW.

What are you going to do once you've ground your way to your dream mech? Quit playing? Because playing (grinding) with your custom mech is no different than grinding (playing) with the trials. I personally have zero problem with the trial mech system or the current economy. When I PUG, I'm usually in a trial. I usually only play my personal builds with my outfit. If I start running low on cash (which is never because I spend so much time in trials) I just run the trials.

Less QQ more Pew Pew ( or dakkadakka, if that's how you prefer to get your rocks off)

[JingleHell]

JohanssenJr, on 01 November 2012 - 07:32 PM, said:

Since when did grinding equate simply playing the game?

Yeah, I'm a founder. But I rock the trial Cent and Awesome more than my founders Atlas or YLW.

What are you going to do once you've ground your way to your dream mech? Quit playing? Because playing (grinding) with your custom mech is no different than grinding (playing) with the trials. I personally have zero problem with the trial mech system or the current economy. When I PUG, I'm usually in a trial. I usually only play my personal builds with my outfit. If I start running low on cash (which is never because I spend so much time in trials) I just run the trials.

Less QQ more Pew Pew ( or dakkadakka, if that's how you prefer to get your rocks off)

It hasn't bothered me particularly yet, but I can see the draw since customization is a big part of the fun. But then, I started Monday, and I've fitted 2 Hunchies, and have 3m in the bank, ignoring all my refit money. I can't even pretend that's not WAY the hell faster than getting the currency to buy champions in League of Legends. Not even counting all the games you have to play to hit 30 and unlock all the talents, plus buying the runepages.

All in all, this is WAY less grindy, it just seems like an "important" part of the overall experience is missing until you build your own. That's why I figure my solution offered is better than a lot of them. It still helps the truly new player get fitting quick, but without really affecting earning towards later mechs.

[IceSkraven]

I really don't have a problem with the trial mechs. It is no different from running a stock config. I do have a problem with the matchmaker pitting trials/stock configs against customized mechs.

[soxy]

One thing could improve the trial mechs, could be the pilot experience.

I think trial mechs should give that to, since the pilot will learn when using them.

Edited by soxy, 02 November 2012 - 09:33 AM.

[Zen Hachetaki]

I will take an idea posted earlier and expand a bit - give players choices. First - just hop in and grind PvP. Second - quest line oriented at teaching and playing against computer "players", if they work through the "quests/scenarios", they earn an intro mech - like "pick any Commando you want" with 5K XP to assign to it. This allows people who know what they are doing to just get straight to it - or allows newer players a non face stomping way to learn the game and have specific learnings along the way and you know exactly what you need to do to get your first mech.

I hate seeing 2 things: 1) Suicide farmers who clearly know the game, and 2) New players who get curb stomped and get frustrated and quit the game right away

We need to guide new players into the game without making it child's play/easy sauce, you appreciate something more when you work hard to get it; but it needs to be fun at the same time and not as much a grind.

[EvangelionUnit]

there should be all stock mechs/variants as trails ... everytime, so you could give'em a try, and it don't hurt the economy (what economy, you don't trade with others?! WTF) or the grind or what every, you get less cash, and NO (nothing, nada, niente, nix) EXP ... so the only thing you can use them for is: grinding or trying to see what kind of mech and loadout can be your thing.