16 replies to this topic

[Weiland]

Before you read this, please take a moment to put your guns down and relax. I'm trying to make a point here. If you want to call me a sanctimonious elitist asshat, I'm just going to ignore you. I want to see if I'm the only person that has this concern - and maybe even get some dev feedback on it (not too likely, but there are miracles).


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Players continue to cry big tears over the perception that they're getting stomped over and over by premades, and that it's just not fair.

I agree that it's not fair. But not for the reasons you would think.

Those people that choose to play alone know what they're getting themselves into - or should, else they deserve the ***-whooping they get. Teams know how to coordinate, and often most PUGs do not, or will not. This is an issue, but I raise a more definite and more pressing theory.

PUGs will still be getting their faces compacted even after they no longer drop against premades.

The bigger problem, I believe, is the level of skill. A lot of people who get stomped in a match - I.E. 8-0 - assume it's because they were going up against a premade. Just how many premades are out there, anyway? I've seen too many reports from PUGs that creamed the opposing team 8-0 (or something like it) to think that all PUGs are created equally.

Mark my words. When PUGs are limited to engaging exclusively other PUGs, the real problem will surface: experienced players with piloting proficiency and tactically-sound mindsets will be curb-stomping the hell out of the all of the PUGs that were whining about getting murdered by premades. Worse, we who run premades will be limited to dropping only against other teams that meet our exact weight class line-up (or, worse than that, we'll be dropping against a mix-up of weight classes which will throw balance all to hell).

The better idea would be to institute a matchmaking system based on in-game rank. Players doing well and ranking up would be matched against similar players; players getting stomped would be matched against similar or lower-rank players. Groups with a mish-mash would average out. I've seen highly-skilled PUGs that could take down premades - been up against a few myself, barely survived, sometimes didn't - so the playing field will be a lot more level and the less-skilled PUGs and lone wolves will be able to finally have a more even playing field as well.

Unfortunately, I don't see this happening. PGI seems to have set themselves for segregation of the player base, which will only band-aid the problem until community warfare gets in, and then all of the PUGs - including the ones who are at that point still getting their butts handed to them by more experienced PUGs - will be either stuck against effective teams once again or will be unable to compete.

I mean, hell, there's a reason I've been pushing for loners and PUGs to get involved more in the community. It may sound harsh, but the bigger issue actually is "learn2play" and not merely segregate everyone. I'd rather have a bunch of people struggling to get along and work together than simply cordoned off, but... One fractured community, comin' right up.


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Again, as a reminder, at least keep it civil. That's all I ask.

Edited by Weiland, 30 October 2012 - 04:49 PM.

[RazorSixActual]

Weiland, on 30 October 2012 - 04:49 PM, said:

The better idea would be to institute a matchmaking system based on in-game rank. Players doing well and ranking up would be matched against similar players; players getting stomped would be matched against similar or lower-rank players. Groups with a mish-mash would average out. I've seen highly-skilled PUGs that could take down premades - been up against a few myself, barely survived, sometimes didn't - so the playing field will be a lot more level and the less-skilled PUGs and lone wolves will be able to finally have a more even playing field as well.

Unfortunately, I don't see this happening. PGI seems to have set themselves for segregation of the player base, which will only band-aid the problem until community warfare gets in, and then all of the PUGs - including the ones who are at that point still getting their butts handed to them by more experienced PUGs - will be either stuck against effective teams once again or will be unable to compete.

Because ELO based matchmaking isn't in the works right? http://mwomercs.com/...79-matchmaking/

[Weiland]

RazorSixActual, on 30 October 2012 - 04:58 PM, said:

Because ELO based matchmaking isn't in the works right? http://mwomercs.com/...79-matchmaking/

I'll be honest. I didn't know what ELO actually implies or what it stands for. I'm assuming that's some sort of ranking system?

Hey. Not everyone can be perfect.

[RazorSixActual]

http://en.wikipedia....o_rating_system

[GeneralArmchair]

If you would read the patchnotes and community e-mails, you would see that phase 1 of the matchmaker is segregating pugs and pre-mades. It is phase 1 because it is the easiest solution to implement and will have the greatest immediate impact.

Phase 2 is allowing 8man pre-mades to fight against other 8-man pre-mades.

Further phases will involve finer grade matchmaking based on tonnage and skill.


I'd love to have that fine grain matchmaker that sorts by tonnage and skill, but in the mean-time we need to segregate pugs and pre-mades yesterday. It is impossible to attract new playeres when their first introduction to the game is 20 0-8 games against up-engineed jenners spotting for LRM atlas lances.

[HammerForge]

Personally, I think there should be an option for PUGs to go against groups. WHY? Because I know there are plenty of really good players out there that if they were just put together could give a premade a run for their money and would love the challenge. I think that is a better fix than the ones that have been brought up, but we'll have to wait and see how it works.

[Vila deVere]

GeneralArmchair, on 30 October 2012 - 05:07 PM, said:

If you would read the patchnotes and community e-mails, you would see that phase 1 of the matchmaker is segregating pugs and pre-mades. It is phase 1 because it is the easiest solution to implement and will have the greatest immediate impact.

Phase 2 is allowing 8man pre-mades to fight against other 8-man pre-mades.

Further phases will involve finer grade matchmaking based on tonnage and skill.


I'd love to have that fine grain matchmaker that sorts by tonnage and skill, but in the mean-time we need to segregate pugs and pre-mades yesterday. It is impossible to attract new playeres when their first introduction to the game is 20 0-8 games against up-engineed jenners spotting for LRM atlas lances.

2 things:

1) In order for the Pug vs Premade problem to be as bad as perception, Premades would have to make up a lrge percentage of the population. They don't. Lots of times when a Pug gets his butt handed to it, it's not a pre-made, it's just a better Pug group.

2) According to Bryans latest post, Phase two will have pre-mades of of 5-8 dropping against each other (yeah!), and the teams can be uneven (uhh.... OK.... HOW uneven?) and there will be no matching of weight classes (what? why?)

[Yokaiko]

Vila deVere, on 30 October 2012 - 05:13 PM, said:

2) According to Bryans latest post, Phase two will have pre-mades of of 5-8 dropping against each other (yeah!), and the teams can be uneven (uhh.... OK.... HOW uneven?) and there will be no matching of weight classes (what? why?)

This is fantastic. It means you have to THINK building your crew. All atlases is the easiest thing in the world to counter, as are extremely have LRM teams.

They ARE hard to counter when you have to do it with the same weight class mechs.

[Weiland]

Yokaiko, on 30 October 2012 - 05:19 PM, said:

This is fantastic. It means you have to THINK building your crew. All atlases is the easiest thing in the world to counter, as are extremely have LRM teams.

They ARE hard to counter when you have to do it with the same weight class mechs.

Kinda more worried about finding matches, myself. What happens when you try to drop with a certain setup of mechs and no one is dropping at that precise moment with the same weight class array? Failed to find match? Or, worse, will it drop you with a potentially uneven weight class array?

[Ace Kaller]

Ok, my last 5 matches were ALL 0-8 losses. There is no way that I randomly just always get put in a crap team that scatters against a team of 8 other pugs who are just sooooooooo insanely good. Random chance says that's not the case

[PaintedWolf]

They just need to let you stay with the same group. Have a "Stay with Current Players" option. Those who do not click in time are considered DC/AFK. There, you can start a PUG and end with an evolved group. Slots can be filled by those who enter Solo/"PUG". In effect, PUGing will actually mean picking up an actual 'group' (persistent team of players) instead of playing Solo/Random like what PUG means now. It is absurd that almost half a team can be AFK sometimes.

[Odins Fist]

It will "WORK" for the time being.... That will be all... Case CLOSED

[Weiland]

Ace Kaller, on 30 October 2012 - 05:23 PM, said:

Ok, my last 5 matches were ALL 0-8 losses. There is no way that I randomly just always get put in a crap team that scatters against a team of 8 other pugs who are just sooooooooo insanely good. Random chance says that's not the case

It's not that hard to fall into a 0-8 sweep. All you have to do is have a few weak links. Sometimes it's circumstance, sometimes it's a crappy team. No, I think most of the time it's a crappy team, because I see most PUGs doing some *really* dumb stuff out there. Perhaps one of your drops was versus premade, if you were unlucky, but not all 5 by far.

[Salient]

itll work, duh.

[BoldarBlood]

one of the reasons is the trial mech system. they just cannot competite against custom mechs.

[Imagine Dragons]

/Lazy comments in spoiler

Spoiler

: Put down your guns
; Starts off by saying PUGs are Crying...

: !Skill
; thats not the issue

:PUGs will still be stomped
; by other PUGs, and honestly it will not be much as a steam roll as before

We could just have little group indicators next to people's names ala WoT-platoon-markers-style on the scoreboard...

that would indicate if you're facing a premade or not quite clearly...

[Yokaiko]

Weiland, on 30 October 2012 - 05:22 PM, said:

Kinda more worried about finding matches, myself. What happens when you try to drop with a certain setup of mechs and no one is dropping at that precise moment with the same weight class array? Failed to find match? Or, worse, will it drop you with a potentially uneven weight class array?

Likely why it is getting changed. If I have to wait a game to find a game, meh, see you when that gets fixed.