734 replies to this topic

[nightsniper]

Looking at more of the posts on other treads related to goals for house Davion I think a frame work can be achieved if we can agree on some goals.

1 Mutual aid amoung all units
2 Common goals
3 Defined foes and allies
4 Time zone consideration
5 establishing clear lines of communication
6 Open format for involving new units and new players in House Davion (no fighting amoung units for the same new player)
7 agreement to abide by all of the above decissions


Just a few ideas to spurr the discussion.

One last observation: we should petition the Devs to limit visitors to only undeclared and House Davion declared players. Not that anyother house has the ability to do what we do but having them clog our discussions with their cheeky comments is just distracting.

[Jack Gallows]

nightsniper, on 15 February 2012 - 05:34 AM, said:

One last observation: we should petition the Devs to limit visitors to only undeclared and House Davion declared players. Not that anyother house has the ability to do what we do but having them clog our discussions with their cheeky comments is just distracting.

And yet, none of us are considered having declared for Davion until the game starts. It's not like you can't easily swap your faction logo in all of 3 seconds. Closing the forum to any specific set of people isn't a good idea, and the dev's aren't going to do it. If you don't like a post, report it and a mod will decide if it's bad or not.

Edited by Jack Gallows, 15 February 2012 - 05:46 AM.

[nightsniper]

Thanks Jack

But I was just tweaking our visitors a bit. Quasi, instigating against a potential foe, all in role-playing fun on the forums.

Besides what Davion would ever consider becoming a low life scum Liao anyway? I mean that’s like putting Mayo on corn flakes Just Yuck!

[Stone GKR]

Azantia, on 04 February 2012 - 11:12 AM, said:

LordRush, I am not taking anything away from anyone you have met, played with or shed vitual blood and sweat with.

You are the one not understanding, so I will make it more clear.

We dont know you or your compadres : So we dont trust you. And no, I dont take your word for it, and no there is no wall of text that can convince me otherwise.

No I am not upset or mad in any way, just trying to make sure both sides clearly understand each others position.

Leadership is about respect. Respect given to his men by the commander, and respect given to the commander by his men. Respect is earned slowly overtime by competence, communication, fairness and consistancy in expectations, reward and punishment. These principles build confidence and loyalty, through confidence and loyalty you get good cohesion. Through cohesion and practice you get a good, solid unit.

Now if you can demonstrate or provide examples of how those parameters have been met by your core group, in regards to either myself, Colonel Gallows or anyone else who was not, for any reason part of the MPBT AFFS crowd, then I will concede the point.

You know you have been playing a game series too long when you see the same conversations happen again and again. Part of this posting mirrors a reply I got from some person named "Qin" back on Solaris in a conversation we had. I guess "what goes around" as they say. You may feel better in knowing that some of the same people that are in the CoC now were saying the same things about who should be in the command back in the late 1990"s era of Solaris.

I think I told you Qin that you "Solaris" folks would face this one day. Said in good humor old friend.

House Command: The key to a House Command post is that the person MUST be able to put the House above any loyalty to his old unit. If they cant, trouble will follow as other units will feel slighted. House Command can be fun, but also tends to be a thankless job. There is always someone who thinks they can do it better.

To the person that posted about leading troops in real life: Man there are some stories I could tell you about "leaders" in MPBT. I mean real drinking and laughing stuff.

Bottom line is this is a GAME. People seem to forget this. Have fun, find a way to work together and cut out the months of endless bickering.

I will tell you Qin is a good guy. Well was a good guy last I talked to him for any stretch, so give him a chance. Now Rush? Well as I am not on "your list" sorry; No Soup for YOU!

Stone

[LordRush]

LOL !! whoops!
Glad to see you finally made it over here man.
Believe me....I did you a favor /grins

[Antador]

Wow seeing some old names here. Played MPBT on aol ages ago. was in 1FSAC played as Warmaker then. Then married kids jobs..lol. Gmaes looks good so far. Hope to see some old friends Ive not seen in ages...Later all

[Qin]

Stone GKR, on 29 February 2012 - 09:59 PM, said:

You know you have been playing a game series too long when you see the same conversations happen again and again. Part of this posting mirrors a reply I got from some person named "Qin" back on Solaris in a conversation we had. I guess "what goes around" as they say. You may feel better in knowing that some of the same people that are in the CoC now were saying the same things about who should be in the command back in the late 1990"s era of Solaris.

I think I told you Qin that you "Solaris" folks would face this one day. Said in good humor old friend.

House Command: The key to a House Command post is that the person MUST be able to put the House above any loyalty to his old unit. If they cant, trouble will follow as other units will feel slighted. House Command can be fun, but also tends to be a thankless job. There is always someone who thinks they can do it better.

To the person that posted about leading troops in real life: Man there are some stories I could tell you about "leaders" in MPBT. I mean real drinking and laughing stuff.

Bottom line is this is a GAME. People seem to forget this. Have fun, find a way to work together and cut out the months of endless bickering.

I will tell you Qin is a good guy. Well was a good guy last I talked to him for any stretch, so give him a chance. Now Rush? Well as I am not on "your list" sorry; No Soup for YOU!

Stone

*grins* i think Rush did not expect you to escape the crypt that we filled with cement ....eeeeh i mean, sealed off for visitors ...

Yes yes everything moves in circles, where have those days gone where we where young, and railing against the establisment

But im glad to see you found your way to the forum

[Azantia]

Stone,
I will clarify my position as it seems that once again we are missing the point :

Round 2:

If you notice in my original post, i mentioned that "friends" would come out of the shadows to "support" someones self proclaimed "Best leader for the job".

Plain and simple, you are in the same boat as Rush. You can say, hey i have seen this before, it all worked out....I was there when they came along, they are good guys.

Our definition of "good guys" and "good leadership" is probably vastly different. Even if it is close, it is still going to be different. So until individuals can prove their leadership qualities, then nothing ANYONE says will matter.

Some people may place "good faith" in people. I do not. You say you are a leader? Prove it. So far I have not seen good leadership principles from those in question.

There are a few folks on these boards that I have seen good leadership principles from : Pappy and Colonel Gallows comes to the top of my mind. Go take a look at their posts, tone and initiative of action.

In my opinion, based on posts on these boards and my interpretation of the tone and attitude of their posts, Those in question are not in the same league as Pappy or Colonel Gallows, who have never once claimed, asked or even hinted at "how good of a leader" they are, they lead, period.

A personal opinion/observation, and I could be wrong. First impressions are lasting impressions and any good line leader (Who is going to be lead by a higher command) should have a healthy skepticism and "prove it" attitude to those having the attitude of "I have been there done that and I am the best man to lead you".

I've been through 26 months of active combat service in two of the worst areas in Afghanistan, but when it comes time to train, I dont say "Ive already done this, I know what i am doing, I should be teaching this" If I am chosen to teach, I would hope it is because I am the most proficient at the task, because I have proven it in the past. When it comes time to choose a leader I dont say "Ive done it before, therefore It should be me." I let my actions speak for themselves, and IF my peers decide I am the man for the job based on my performance then so be it. I would not expect to walk into a new command or in this case a new community/game and expect people to put any stock or trust in me as a leader when they have not seen me, known me, been in combat with me, etc...I have to EARN my place in that command/community/unit. This is no different. (I will be waiting for the "We have earned it" to come out of someone's mouth before completely tuning them out.)

That is just egomanical, which is counter-productive to good leadership principles. In my opinion. Hope that clears up my position on the subject.

EDIT : There is no difference between House Command and "Regular" command. If you are in Command, your command principles and philosophy will define your leadership style. You either have it and will be a good leader, or you dont. Period.

Edited by Azantia, 01 March 2012 - 06:53 PM.

[Stone GKR]

Azantia, on 01 March 2012 - 06:48 PM, said:

Stone,
I will clarify my position as it seems that once again we are missing the point :
Round 2:
If you notice in my original post, i mentioned that "friends" would come out of the shadows to "support" someones self proclaimed "Best leader for the job".
EDIT : There is no difference between House Command and "Regular" command. If you are in Command, your command principles and philosophy will define your leadership style. You either have it and will be a good leader, or you dont. Period.

I am not sure you read what I typed. Perhaps you did not understand, I am getting old.

1. You did not need to "clarify" anything. I understood what had been written so far, and like I said I have seen it all before. Even now you post nothing new but your handle and service. (congrats on your tours by the way).

2. Such a wise person, you caught me coming from the shadows. You fail in that I came out in support of your side. I "agree" with your argument though the percentage is dropping after this last post. I just said Qin was a good guy last I had to deal with him, and that was about a decade ago. Hell, he could be a child molester now as far as I know. But many of the old Solaris kids were real pain in the butts to have to deal with. Now that I dont work to support a game, I dont have to be nice to them anymore. hehe

Lets just say I am on the side of House Davion and not a specific "group".

3. I am not sure how to take the "Command" comment. Leadership style is a personal thing that is influenced by our experiences. It is never set in stone (no pun intended) unless we are dead or refuse to learn.

But you cannot mean there is no difference between uncoded House Command in an online game, and "regular" command on active duty. I know I am retired now, but I would be surprised if the Army has start voting leaders into command positions.

4. My point which seems to have alluded us is that this is a GAME. Rather than turn this into a peeing contest on "new coke vs old coke", find a way to work together now and avoid the months of endless fighting and bad feelings that will happen if you continue down this path.

Besides, House Command sucks. I would find some good intentioned ***** to bust their butt to set it up while I enjoy the game (just me thinking).
But think of each other as members of House Davion and treat each other as such. Stop acting like a collection of different gamers eras.


Stone

[LordRush]

Azantia, on 01 March 2012 - 06:48 PM, said:

Some people may place "good faith" in people. I do not. You say you are a leader? Prove it. So far I have not seen good leadership principles from those in question.

lol really Azantia, the only ones questioning are you and Jack. Dood..lol you haven't proven anything. If anything...I see only more and more people who actually know each other coming out of the woodwork. I said it once...Im still saying it now. You cant comprehend the scope of the old guard/community. You probably never will.
Im sorry that you were unable to see the community back then. These are all really good people. Hell, Im a hell of a good guy and always up for a laugh. Just give em a chance. Its experience what we are needing right now.Take advantage man. These guys have been there.

Btw, didnt know you were military. I speak for alot here I am sure. Yours and other serviceman/service woman are truly appreciated!! <<S>>

Edited by LordRush, 01 March 2012 - 11:59 PM.

[LordRush]

O...and just for the record.

A.I.
[who wants to make the odds? My money is waiting to be put down]

Edited by LordRush, 01 March 2012 - 11:57 PM.

[Jack Gallows]

After continuing to read more responses handed out in this thread, I dearly hope the higher up chain of command is NPC based. I don't have much faith in many of those that post here (not everyone,) and wouldn't want most of you leading anything based on how you conduct yourselves in this thread.

Not saying that cannot change, but that's where I stand at this moment.

[Maris]

The only thing that you old vets can hope for is to form your own sort of "alliance" with the rest of your "old guard", the same like any other MMO alliance of guilds and do your usual thing. You can pretend that it is an independent AFFS military command or something something...that certainly is doable.

But if you think that when the game launches and the thousands of players who will start playing MWO would actually accept you outright as house leaders, then you are setting yourself up for a major disappointment. You may be "veterans" of some niche MW community in the past but there are many other groups of players out there coming into MWO with their own hierarchy and order. Many are actually going to be larger, stronger and more organised than even yours with vast experiences regarding administrating and planning. So I dunno how you think they are simply going to move aside and let you dictate their communities...even on a macro level.

Edited by Maris, 02 March 2012 - 08:44 PM.

[LordRush]

Man...you guys are paranoid or something.

[L zard]

Or something.........

[Iron]

Maris, on 02 March 2012 - 08:41 PM, said:

The only thing that you old vets can hope for is to form your own sort of "alliance" with the rest of your "old guard", the same like any other MMO alliance of guilds and do your usual thing. You can pretend that it is an independent AFFS military command or something something...that certainly is doable.

But if you think that when the game launches and the thousands of players who will start playing MWO would actually accept you outright as house leaders, then you are setting yourself up for a major disappointment. You may be "veterans" of some niche MW community in the past but there are many other groups of players out there coming into MWO with their own hierarchy and order. Many are actually going to be larger, stronger and more organised than even yours with vast experiences regarding administrating and planning. So I dunno how you think they are simply going to move aside and let you dictate their communities...even on a macro level.

All we really need is for all these groups to work together for the common good of the house.If we have to start out with 4 to 6 different groups fine.Lets just get all the leader together and make sure they are talking and in the long run they will start to get to know and understand where they stand.After a bit they will integrate in to one house command
LftCol.Iron
HeadHunters of Davion

[Maris]

LordRush, on 02 March 2012 - 11:25 PM, said:

Man...you guys are paranoid or something.

Your post and general conduct in this thread doesn't do you nor your fellows any favour.

Others have apparently said the same so it is unfortunate you still fail to see it.

[BLoodman]

Come on children[ages10-60] i have been sitting here for weeks now just reading and trying to ignore all the bickering and bad mouthing. Can`t we all just get along! Eventually we will find out more of whats to come and as Stone put it "House Command sucks. I would find some good intentioned ***** to bust their butt to set it up while I enjoy the game" and as Rygat comented "I hereby nominate myself for Subaltern! I know... it may be a bit presumptuous.
For any of you who know what that rank is without looking it up you may be
officer material
I'm going to wait until there is an actual running game before I worry about any
of this"
These are 2 people who should really know about how to run a House becasue they have done it!!(I sat behind Rygat and shook my head a lot as his XO but he did a grate job) Stone and Donnie(AKA Knightwing) Did a even better job.

I am here reading a lot of jiberish and nonsence and chest pounding. A few of you have good ideas and a few of you are just friging NUTS. So please just wait till we really have something confirmed then we can all sit down and work something out!


BLoodman <AFFS>

PS If you dont know who i am look it up. LOL

[Meneiupptus]

In EGA MPBT we had an alert roster of hundreds... and we came when called. When Stone calls I'll jump to as I did before.

[Azantia]

I get it. You had a community. You were organized and you guys were ELITE. Doesnt mean a D*mn thing and gives you no rights or claims to house leadership, unit leadership, command positions and/or your previous places in any future established master chain of command, is that black and white enough? That is our message to you MPBT players. There are more communities that have played battletech (some longer than you) outside of the MPBT game.

How is that concept so hard to grasp?

To me, the only reason someone would be :
A. Unwilling
B. Unable

To grasp a concept is because of an Ego problem.

Ego problems go hand and hand with poor leadership.

From what I have seen, the MPBT players are by far the most ENTITLED of the mesh of communities / community leaders I have seen on these boards. Other community leaders from other game/community bases are mostly trying to see where everyone is at, and are trying to promote good lines of communication. You MPBT players are all about yourselves and touting your "previous" community and your perceived superiority to other gaming communities. You believe that because you played MPBT that you are somehow "more" fanatical about battletech, or are "better" or "more suited" than others. I just dont understand it.

Take a minute and think about it, review the post history. Please find a post where any of the other gaming communities, weather from Mektek Leagues, Megamek Leagues (or older NBT Leagues), other outside megamek leagues or games or the like have a similar attitude, or have used the basic concept even remotely similar to the " well we come from MPBT and we had an established community / chain of command, we have done it before , we know what we are doing, this is the way it should be."

Its borderline demeaning to other player groups and definitely does the OPPOSITE to what you guys claim to want in the meshing of communities for the betterment of the house.

Hell I didnt even want to go this deep into it, but you MPBT players just push and push and push. I was under the impression that the MPBT crowd was mostly older ADULT gamers, but from where I sit it seems to be one of two things

An Ego problem or an inability to understand the adult concept of "Others"

So now that we have come full circle, what did I miss? You guys seem to be unable to let it go. So explain it to me again if you would be so kind. Cause its not making sense to me, and several others. You guys want to keep re-hashing it, so lets restart the discussion from square one.

I think you mis-understand my posts as being combative. Quite the opposite, I am saying that myself and several other players whom play under established communities and units will not participate in a greater chain of command or with others if this is the type of attitude / personalities we can expect. We are more than capable of managing and administering our own units. If there is to be some sort of league someday, if this thread is any indication of the leadership philosophies and personalities you are bringing to the table, rest assured, there will be no "unified" house Davion as not alot of people I know from prior gaming communities, battletech through NBT leagues and other included, will follow you.

I will be waiting for the MPBT community reply

Edited by Azantia, 05 March 2012 - 04:07 AM.