734 replies to this topic

[Azantia]

Eagle,
I think you misinterpreted some of the response here.

We are not against the idea of a Chain of Command. We disagree with the people who have put out the clarion call that they should lead because they lead a house CoC in another game. We disagree with them because their entitled attitude sucks and is a huge put-off to anyone with half a shred of dignity. I will not follow a chain of command that is self-entitled and believes they are better than the rest of the community they play with.

Why do you find that so hard to understand / accept?

You say like it or not you cant stop it? Really? I think you are wrong. We will fill our own organized community, with unit leaders who understand humility, respect and fair-play, since we understand very clearly the strength in that.

[Qin]

@Azantlia

You cought us Az, your sharp deductive skills have laid our evil plans bare. I admit its all in the post clevery hidden by code words and double meanings. You singlehandedly twarted our plans for world domination!

*strokes his white cat*

Hey! stop laughing guys... thats was our plan right... we discused it earlier at the secret meeting...

[Jack Gallows]

Eagle_HH, on 01 April 2012 - 10:59 AM, said:

There are obviously people that want to try to shoot down the idea but the fact is try or not you can't stop it. It is a game for the player and it is for the player to decide how they play or choose to lead. I hope you guys grow your leadership and your participation because in the end it means that you are preparing for success. For the people that want nothing of it, they just can't see outside of what they are capable of. It doesn't mean there is no place in the game for them, there is a place for everyone, just don't let the naysayers hold you back from your progress and build something great for those loyal to the house to be a part of.

~S~

Baring a few of the contradictions in your post, as Az said we aren't against a Chain of Command, but how it'd be implemented by various elements who have voiced their opinions on this forum.

These things can be fun indeed, but I'm solely concerned about it remaining fair and fun for all, and that means being wary of how we'd achieve picking the "leadership" of any type of CoC. There are many pitfalls and I don't want to see them happen to this House for any reason.

[nightsniper]

I still have to shake my head. Especially with comments on "how we pick a leader" you guys are really out there if you think a hand full of ego's will dictate a global game. Playing this 24/7 at the pace the Developers are praying occurs is going to take more then just a handful of players to manage. This game is going to be based on Lance play. Yes a House should have a set of goals and an overall stratergy but come on you think your going to outright control the potential of thousands of players. LOL their is not the structure in the game let alone the internet to control global play like that. Even the real time voice systems would not be able to handle that. The structure is going to come from small unit leaders working to a common purpose not a king passing down a do this do that. Not to mention leaders are not annointed they rise to the occassion.

I trust those I know and get to know and I will be loyal to those I know until that changes. Their are likely to be several thousand new players that come into the portal start thinking about how to deal with them and maybe a COC will be born and will grow and ow yes check the ego at the door.

Qin you were not suppose to tell didn't you get the email SHHHHH!

[Qin]

@Jack

Any speculation how you would like to implement a CoC, and abou its duties?

Maybe any good ideas on how we can select people to fill the spots in the CoC?

Edited by Qin, 01 April 2012 - 05:31 PM.

[LordRush]

Qin, on 01 April 2012 - 03:49 PM, said:

Hey! stop laughing guys... thats was our plan right... we discused it earlier at the secret meeting...

nightsniper, on 01 April 2012 - 05:21 PM, said:

Qin you were not suppose to tell didn't you get the email SHHHHH!

See? Damnit...I KNEW we shouldn't have given him that cask of Timbiqui Dark. He drank the whole damn thing and now look!!
Not to mention his playing of "Dirty Deeds Done with Sheep" all night!

[Althix]

First Prince Qin?
i don't think so
many years ago i quit playing on level 2 and focused my attention on level 1 and year 3025, because it's more fun. So i asked Leftenant-Colonel from House Davion's 1st Guards RCT in RBTL (Russian BattleTech League) 'can i enlist in AFFS?'
sure he said, what was your rank in Ghost Bear Clan?
Star Captain - i said
ok - said that AFFS officer, what about if you gonna be leftenant-colonel like i am?
Why? Why can't i have higher rank in AFFS? - i asked him
because all officers in ranks higher than leftenant-colonel are actual personalities in BattleTech universe, you can't be a Prince for example, because we already have one - his name is Victor Ian Steiner-Davion.

it makes sense doesn't it?
if there will be ingame ranks structure that's fine by me, however as officer of AFFS with 12 years of service i refuse to accept any other First Prince rather than Hanse Davion or his son Victor, as example. Same goes with Marshals, General, Admirals etc.

[Qin]

@Nightsniper

I know it sounds out of this world, but i do believe its possible to organize a substatial piece of House Davion.
It is not something thats going to popup overnight all the sudden. Probably more like a handfull of playergroups banding together and growing over time into an organization that can make a difference in game.

@Althix
Ranks and titles inside any community depend on circumstances, and the wishes of its members.
The community that i am a part off has always use the rank of Prince all the way down to privat.
What a community would use in MWO would depend on what the Devs are going to use for the game, and what the community wants to do.
Makes sense right?

Maybe handy to add the comment that i concider myself one of the community leaders of my little part of the community and not the House Leader in this game.

Edited by Qin, 01 April 2012 - 07:01 PM.

[Eagle HH]

Jack Gallows, on 01 April 2012 - 04:08 PM, said:

Baring a few of the contradictions in your post, as Az said we aren't against a Chain of Command, but how it'd be implemented by various elements who have voiced their opinions on this forum.

These things can be fun indeed, but I'm solely concerned about it remaining fair and fun for all, and that means being wary of how we'd achieve picking the "leadership" of any type of CoC. There are many pitfalls and I don't want to see them happen to this House for any reason.

If you aren't against a Chain of Command then work towards something and see that your concerns get heard. Nonetheless don't let trust barriers and the like keep you from seeing what this community is capable of. There are no set rules in the gaming world that dictate how you run your unit and also nothing really says that you can't create your own alliances or house structure but as Qin stated, there is a community that is already very familiar with working this way and I have no question it will do whatever is best for the AFFS, Azantia, this is what I mean when I say it cannot be stopped. Stop treating it as a bad thing and maybe focus on the improvement aspects and progress opposed to dissolving for the sake of sitting and doing nothing. Who knows, if some are so hell-bent about the way a House should be run then start your own and run with it , since it will not affect the other what does it matter right? (not to start more heated debate just giving a scenario! I am confident it will just take some work to get the majority in agreeance.) Make a choice though and do it for what you believe will represent who you are and how you serve your house..............

Get in the loop, I am betting all the other Houses have something going so do not let yourself be fooled by com infiltrators.

[Dihm]

I know I know, I'm a broken record, but I'll say it again.

Why are people still ignoring the fact that it has been repeatedly stated that players will have no control over the house/faction units? The only units players will have any control over are merc units. It's all fine and dandy to say you have a House CoC, but there will be more players in the faction that ignore it than who willingly accept serving under it. It will have no teeth. There are no restrictions on members joining factions or the units within them (assuming they gain enough loyalty points). Due to the nature of the game, you're going to see a higher population than we ever saw in MPBT or in any of the Planetary Leagues, and I can guarantee you that a majority of them won't be interested in following orders.

Given what we KNOW (you can't control the House without concent of the player, and many players won't concent), how do you see this CoC actually functioning? Wouldn't it be more profitable to work on setting up a Merc CoC/Council, for units that work soley for House Davion, than by trying to herd the 5+ digit amount of cats that will be the House Davion faction players?

If not, then another question. How do you plan on enforcing the authority of the House Davion CoC?

[Meneiupptus]

If there is a Davion CoC it will most likely be voluntary, much like a guild alliance. Those that don't comply with the groups goals will most likely not be part of the group afterwards. The thing about Privately running a CoC is that Gamemasters cannot interfere and players can be dealt with by the players they have wronged.

I expect it will start out small like most alliances do and build momentum with whatever victories it can spear head. ... Same as any other alliance which I expect there will be many.

If you think about it... not having an in game mechanic for it is really downright stupid since the players are going to do it anyways. Inevitably you have your alliances and your loners... Premades are not always the win in battlegrounds but they damn sure have an edge.

[LordRush]

Meneiupptus, on 02 April 2012 - 07:13 AM, said:

If there is a Davion CoC it will most likely be voluntary, much like a guild alliance. Those that don't comply with the groups goals will most likely not be part of the group afterwards. The thing about Privately running a CoC is that Gamemasters cannot interfere and players can be dealt with by the players they have wronged.

I expect it will start out small like most alliances do and build momentum with whatever victories it can spear head. ... Same as any other alliance which I expect there will be many.

If you think about it... not having an in game mechanic for it is really downright stupid since the players are going to do it anyways. Inevitably you have your alliances and your loners... Premades are not always the win in battlegrounds but they damn sure have an edge.

100% agree

The only thing I would say that I find curious in your statement was about this..
"Those that don't comply with the groups goals will most likely not be part of the group afterwards"

In most "alliance" based mpg's this is the case. However, most of the time you ARE in that group for purposes of expanding and benefiting to the group. I dont know to many individuals who are bound to a group due to their lack of choice.

"If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice"

Edited by LordRush, 02 April 2012 - 07:28 AM.

[Qin]

@Dihm

Eeeh, i think there is some misconception here. The whole CoC thing is voluntairy, it is something for all the units that wish to participate in, and individuals who want to join in are welcome too.

In a way you could compair it with a sport club. You join the club and join one of its teams. You fight together, win, loose, grow as a team. Boast of your wins, learn from your losses. And there are other teams, with simmilar goals, who all work toward the goal of making House Davion the best club in the competition.

The CoC in this case is the management of the club. It concerns itself with the broader scope. Not with what lance is fighting where or who should be a lance leader or not. But things like plotting the demise of the other Houses

So to make it totaly clear its all voluntairy, and nobody is going to hate you for not signing up for it.

[LordRush]

Qin, on 02 April 2012 - 07:33 AM, said:

@Dihm

Eeeh, i think there is some misconception here. The whole CoC thing is voluntairy, it is something for all the units that wish to participate in, and individuals who want to join in are welcome too.

In a way you could compair it with a sport club. You join the club and join one of its teams. You fight together, win, loose, grow as a team. Boast of your wins, learn from your losses. And there are other teams, with simmilar goals, who all work toward the goal of making House Davion the best club in the competition.

The CoC in this case is the management of the club. It concerns itself with the broader scope. Not with what lance is fighting where or who should be a lance leader or not. But things like plotting the demise of the other Houses

So to make it totaly clear its all voluntairy, and nobody is going to hate you for not signing up for it.

I do believe Sir Qin you have nailed it right there.
It IS a "club"...hell you can say whatever humorous things you want. You can even call it the "Good Ol Boys" club.
We carry a banner that reads "DAVION", We assist DAVION. We have our Leaders and the units abide by the ground rules laid forth by our leaders.
If you desire to achieve the goals of the House? Then join in. We do not discriminate [even exiled snakes] and we surely wont force anything upon anybody.
Granted we strongly believe in the power of numbers and we recruit for such. But again..nothing is forced upon anyone.

[Dihm]

Qin, on 02 April 2012 - 07:33 AM, said:

@Dihm

Eeeh, i think there is some misconception here. The whole CoC thing is voluntairy, it is something for all the units that wish to participate in, and individuals who want to join in are welcome too.

In a way you could compair it with a sport club. You join the club and join one of its teams. You fight together, win, loose, grow as a team. Boast of your wins, learn from your losses. And there are other teams, with simmilar goals, who all work toward the goal of making House Davion the best club in the competition.

The CoC in this case is the management of the club. It concerns itself with the broader scope. Not with what lance is fighting where or who should be a lance leader or not. But things like plotting the demise of the other Houses

So to make it totaly clear its all voluntairy, and nobody is going to hate you for not signing up for it.

In your analogy, it would be the management of A SMALL SECTION OF THE ENTIRE CLUB. You can't manage the entire House Davion, the rules of the game don't allow it. You can manage a small subset who decide they like you and what you're doing. This is why calling it a "House Davion CoC" causes problems, because you are trying to claim authority of people (intentional or not) by calling it that.

You are creating a subgroup to manage, not the entire House.

[Jack Gallows]

LordRush, on 02 April 2012 - 07:51 AM, said:

If you desire to achieve the goals of the House? Then join in.

This looks as if you're trying to say that people can't just play with their own unit and/or friends and make a difference, that joining your group is the only way to affect change or help the House. I foresee many groups being made, not just the one you're advocating. It's going to happen regardless of how many people you end up getting, because this House will be MASSIVE, and no one group will have the numbers or clout to be able to have a greater say then the other.

And as Dihm said, the overall name of the post and idea is what's got most people against the idea (or that have problems with how it works,) shrinking back from it.

Edited by Jack Gallows, 02 April 2012 - 09:16 AM.

[Eagle HH]

Jack Gallows, on 02 April 2012 - 08:25 AM, said:

This looks as if you're trying to say that people can't just play with their own unit and/or friends and make a difference, that joining your group is the only way to affect change or help the House. I foresee many groups being made, not just the one you're advocating. It's going to happen regardless of how many people you end up getting, because this House will be MASSIVE, and no one group will have the numbers or clout to be able to have a greater say then the other.

And as Dihm said, the overall name of the post and idea is what's got most people against the idea (or that have problems with how it works,) shrinking back from it.

Well when you're the only one creating something I guess it stands as the only thing available to ridicule. You're still not understanding the fact that they are doing what they have always done just as a lot of the units that have fought together with them will as well. As for the numbers I guess you just have to see when the battle begins eh?

I am no longer Davion but I will support them in their efforts, who knows for the future though.

[Jack Gallows]

Eagle_HH, on 02 April 2012 - 09:20 AM, said:

Well when you're the only one creating something I guess it stands as the only thing available to ridicule. You're still not understanding the fact that they are doing what they have always done just as a lot of the units that have fought together with them will as well. As for the numbers I guess you just have to see when the battle begins eh?

I am no longer Davion but I will support them in their efforts, who knows for the future though.

So, you're assuming I don't understand what they're doing? I can't obviously see that they're getting their friends together in their group and trying to have fun in the way they choose, by making their own little rank structures?

Never said they couldn't, that's fine and dandy because it's how they want to play. More power to them. That's basically what I've said, friendly units/players getting together to play how they want to play, not dictated by others (except, if you look at the early posts of this forum, this group thinks it should lead everyone else, which was the original problem.) As for numbers, considering that MW:O has close to 80k registered users, and I'm going to assume quite a LOT more after we have an actual release, I can't see any one group having the membership to budge the size of the House they are a part of.

I support Davion, but I don't have to do it in their group. I'll probably end up in my own little group, and we'll have fun how we want. We'll be just as important as any other group out there, and as I said I foresee MANY such groups. We may even work with different groups including the one here trying to make a CoC, but it won't always be so.

And this will be my last post on the matter. The 1st Blackburn's Raiders will take no part in the creation of a supposed "House CoC." We're going to find our friends and have fun, but there will not be ranks involved, we're just going to play for fun (our choice of fun, as that's subjective,) and enjoy the times we have with various members of the House. We will do what's best for our unit, and what we feel is best for Davion. We will take outside advice, and as said make friends, but we will not recognize a House Chain of Command implemented by players. I reserve the right to alter this at a later date should I find the need to, but that's the basic idea.

Edited by Jack Gallows, 02 April 2012 - 09:33 AM.

[Eagle HH]

Jack Gallows, on 02 April 2012 - 09:26 AM, said:

So, you're assuming I don't understand what they're doing? I can't obviously see that they're getting their friends together in their group and trying to have fun in the way they choose, by making their own little rank structures?

Never said they couldn't, that's fine and dandy because it's how they want to play. More power to them. That's basically what I've said, friendly units/players getting together to play how they want to play, not dictated by others (except, if you look at the early posts of this forum, this group thinks it should lead everyone else, which was the original problem.) As for numbers, considering that MW:O has close to 80k registered users, and I'm going to assume quite a LOT more after we have an actual release, I can't see any one group having the membership to budge the size of the House they are a part of.

I support Davion, but I don't have to do it in their group. I'll probably end up in my own little group, and we'll have fun how we want. We'll be just as important as any other group out there, and as I said I foresee MANY such groups. We may even work with different groups including the one here trying to make a CoC, but it won't always be so.

And this will be my last post on the matter. The 1st Blackburn's Raiders will take no part in the creation of a supposed "House CoC." We're going to find our friends and have fun, but there will not be ranks involved, we're just going to play for fun (our choice of fun, as that's subjective,) and enjoy the times we have with various members of the House. We will do what's best for our unit, and what we feel is best for Davion. We will take outside advice, and as said make friends, but we will not recognize a House Chain of Command implemented by players. I reserve the right to alter this at a later date should I find the need to, but that's the basic idea.

Actually you and many implied that they can't and that it is wrong and you make it very clear to speak against their creation which is now completely opposite of what you are mentioning now. What is it? Is it wrong and they can't or is it right and they can and you are now stepping away? Get the story straight.

If you look to bring only positive aspects to the game you will avoid all the other garbage and make many friends and allies.

Best to you.

[Jack Gallows]

Eagle_HH, on 02 April 2012 - 09:42 AM, said:

Actually you and many implied that they can't and that it is wrong and you make it very clear to speak against their creation which is now completely opposite of what you are mentioning now. What is it? Is it wrong and they can't or is it right and they can and you are now stepping away? Get the story straight.

Point out exactly where I said this? Where have I said they can't have their own group? I've only ever said that if there was going to be a House CoC, meaning the ENTIRE House, that people shouldn't get their positions grandfathered in. If they don't like it, I (or others) don't have to be a part of their group. I've voiced my opinion on equality and not getting something based on previous experience or a sense of entitlement. I have NOT once said they can't have what they wish, I was merely advocating caution and showing my viewpoint on some of the issues.

Don't put words into my mouth, and try to read the entire post. Don't prescribe that I'm trying to do one thing when it isn't the case, they can do as they please, but no one has to follow their rules/ideas. Same with how I'm choosing to handle the situation, some may like it, some may like the idea of making a CoC, and others may pick another route. All I know is that people better not knock on my door assuming some kind of cohesion because someone else pinned a rank/position on them and expects anyone outside their own group to acknowledge it without first questioning it or getting to know said individuals.

So, no, I think you're the one who needs to get their story straight, because apparently you don't grasp the concept of my position in this discussion.