734 replies to this topic

[Dihm]

Meneiupptus, on 03 April 2012 - 09:52 AM, said:

No that is agitating. You pretty much spelled it out. You also missed the part about this being a voluntary thing... not required... not sanctioned by the game developers... which means you are quite literally disrupting other players from working on their in game alliance... on their declared House's forums. Now Azantia has an issue and is part of the House in question which means all rights are his or hers You however have none in this player run alliance.

You don't see an issue with calling the player run alliance the exact same thing as the name of the Faction, which the devs have specifically stated won't be player controlled?

And I will also point out that I have been very civil when I have posted in this thread and done my best to further discussion. No where does it state where members can and cannot post. Additionally, while we plan to work predominantly within the FRR, we are also a merc unit, and have plans to run Davion and Lyran contracts as well. The game is not released yet and these forums are open to all. If you would prefer a restricted space to discuss your alliance, I do see that you have a website and forum already, would that not be a better place if doing it here seems to cause so much agitation?

If you feel my presence here is disruptive, you are free to report me, and if the moderators wish me to stop posting in this thread, I will cease. Just because my allegiance icon says FRR doesn't mean that I don't have an interest in the rest of the community though.

Tha DoggFather, on 03 April 2012 - 09:53 AM, said:

I completely understand what you're saying. And for the record, I don't even have a side in this argument, as I gave up playing the politics game years ago. However, if a group of people and regiments want to ban together to have an organized CoC for their playstyle, I really don't see how it's of any bother or consequence to you or anyone else. You guys are 100% correct in saying that no one has to listen, follow orders, or get involved at all...but I really think you'll be surprised at the amount of people that will want to. I guess we'll see.

I'm glad to see the point I was trying to put forward made sense to someone, that makes me feel better.

I have no doubt that people will be interested in player run alliances within the factions. I think, to play the broken record again, the problem is one group from an older game using the name of the faction as the name of their alliance. Let me try to think of an example to illustrate my point, this will probably be a horrible one since I'm just going to spitball something...

Say I want to start a local political party called the "Democratic Party", with the hope of it going national some day. The problem is, it already exists, and due to some sort of circumstances I have no ability to join and take control of the existing party. However, MY "Democratic Party" grows in size and may or may not follow what other people in the existing Democratic Party may believe or ascribe to. Just like Trademark infringement, you run in to confusion.

Edited by Dihm, 03 April 2012 - 10:07 AM.

[Meneiupptus]

If you are a Merc... be a merc. Declaring FRR tags is misleading at best in my opinion. Your presence is disruptive and I refuse to report you. Good nature and civility as well as respect should have moderated your choices here. If you one day run a Merc mission for Davion I hope that the powers that be remember not to tell you anything... One cannot serve multiple masters and be considered reliable or trusted.

I think we have said our peace though and I wish you well. I will see you one day on the battlefield.

[rollermint]

Them fedrats are already tearing itself apart...
but eh I thought the Federated Civil War mess isn't supposed to happen for at least a decade...

Edited by rollermint, 03 April 2012 - 10:15 AM.

[Dihm]

Meneiupptus, on 03 April 2012 - 10:07 AM, said:

If you are a Merc... be a merc. Declaring FRR tags is misleading at best in my opinion. Your presence is disruptive and I refuse to report you. Good nature and civility as well as respect should have moderated your choices here. If you one day run a Merc mission for Davion I hope that the powers that be remember not to tell you anything... One cannot serve multiple masters and be considered reliable or trusted.

I think we have said our peace though and I wish you well. I will see you one day on the battlefield.

But the "powers that be" will be the game engine. Contracts will be game generated and not computer generated for the foreseeable future. The hope is that player made contracts can come in sometime after launch, but it is not guaranteed.

What is unreliable about a mercenary serving out his contract and then taking another? Heck, I'm not sure how this got turned around on me in a personal manner in the first place. Have I personally insulted you somewhere that you are calling me agitator (essentially a troll) and calling me and my unit unreliable and untrustworthy? Or is that role-play? Because none of what I've been posting is from my "character".

[Meneiupptus]

I don't do roleplay. I see your type and I respond and yes that has been what you are doing.

As for Mercenarys they are at best untrustworthy in any reality... trusting what can turn on you in a heart beat is foolish. How much C's does it take to aim again at people you called friend the day before? No... personally I have nothing against you or for you. I just see a lack of respect for other players. If the Developers have a problem with this they will say so and more power to them, but for a Merc bearing FRR tags to come in and say it is nothing short of rabble rousing. I will not go to the FRR page and show disrespect and I won't goto the merc pages and disrespect either. How they play is how they play and I back them 100%. I do not have the power to tell you to stop.. just point out that you should if you have any respect at all.

Edited by Meneiupptus, 03 April 2012 - 10:21 AM.

[Skoll]

Meneiupptus, on 03 April 2012 - 10:20 AM, said:

I don't do roleplay. I see your type and I respond and yes that has been what you are doing.

As for Mercenarys they are at best untrustworthy in any reality... trusting what can turn on you in a heart beat is foolish. How much C's does it take to aim again at people you called friend the day before? No... personally I have nothing against you or for you. I just see a lack of respect for other players. If the Developers have a problem with this they will say so and more power to them, but for a Merc bearing FRR tags to come in and say it is nothing short of rabble rousing. I will not go to the FRR page and show disrespect and I won't goto the merc pages and disrespect either. How they play is how they play and I back them 100%. I do not have the power to tell you to stop.. just point out that you should if you have any respect at all.

So, you're discriminating against us because we're from Rasalhague? We're somehow not allowed to to talk to you over here because our Icons are different?

What Dihm is doing is not rabblerousing, he's simply stating what's been stated a thousand times before in this thread : Just because a group of players band together and claim themselves House Davion, it doesn't mean they ARE House Davion. With your rather elitist and snobby attitude and the obvious way you want us all to be segregated, how can you show such little respect for a guest?

While I personally have nothing against the Davions, up until now I would probably advise against ANYONE taking contracts for this House because of what's been displayed here. It's a symbiotic relationship and you need mercs just as much as we need contracts.

Edited by Skoll-, 03 April 2012 - 10:49 AM.

[Dihm]

Skoll-, on 03 April 2012 - 10:47 AM, said:

While I personally have nothing against the Davions, up until now I would probably advise against ANYONE taking contracts for this House because of what's been displayed here. It's a symbiotic relationship and you need mercs just as much as we need contracts.

Ehhhh, that sort of misses my point though. Mercenary units will be taking contracts from computers.

[Skoll]

Dihm, on 03 April 2012 - 10:52 AM, said:

Ehhhh, that sort of misses my point though. Mercenary units will be taking contracts from computers.

I know the point you're making, but lets say we enter a game with some Davion's who are openly hostile to us because of the aforementioned.. Why should we stay there and take that crap when we're fighting for THEIR worlds?

[xMarshallx]

Skoll-, on 03 April 2012 - 10:54 AM, said:

I know the point you're making, but lets say we enter a game with some Davion's who are openly hostile to us because of the aforementioned.. Why should we stay there and take that crap when we're fighting for THEIR worlds?

I hope the game allows you to monitor the action of specific units within the Inner Sphere because I'm be planning on receiving a huge bounty from Davion for my unit to squash the 3rd Skjaldborg.

[Dihm]

I'm not sure what we'd possible do to earn a bounty on us from Davion in the game (and I doubt they'll be a bounty system anyway), as we'll be taking contracts against the Combine, Liao, and Marik only as far as I can foresee, but we always welcome some friendly competition!

Edited by Dihm, 03 April 2012 - 11:22 AM.

[Listless Nomad]

The Sniper, on 03 April 2012 - 11:03 AM, said:

I hope the game allows you to monitor the action of specific units within the Inner Sphere because I'm be planning on receiving a huge bounty from Davion for my unit to squash the 3rd Skjaldborg.

I don't know what Davion you will get a bounty from, but they damn sure won't represent the interests of all the units. They are a great bunch of guys, and all of these personal attacks over nothing are silly at best.

Edited by Listless Nomad, 03 April 2012 - 11:46 AM.

[Azantia]

"If it is about Ego that automatically disqualifies you in my book, their is no room for ego running around making my world suck So check it at the door or move on and lastly you have a problem with others in the game then hey that is your problem and certainly is a problem for a leader in an MMO that will see all kinds come through the door."

Quoted from Nightsniper here....and this is exactly what I have been saying the WHOLE time...how is it that you agree now?

In my personal opinion, Qin and LordRush + company have huge Ego problems and therefore I have no faith in their leadership, nor do I want to follow them. I worked with enough poor leaders and non-commissioned officers in the military with ego problems to spot this one a mile away. I didnt have a choice then, I have a choice now. I agree wholeheartedly with your statement there Nightsniper, its a shame that you dont see your leadership the way myself and several other members of this community do. Loyalty is a good thing though, so I will give you that. I suppose it is good to be close friends with the leaders of a community, its only natural as humans to give favorable treatment to those we like. Im sure that will work out well for you.

As for the Chain of Command, I think we havent been clear, we are not against it. We are against being involved in the SAME chain of command where Qin / LordRush are part of upper management.

Edited by Azantia, 03 April 2012 - 11:49 AM.

[Azantia]

Listless Nomad, on 03 April 2012 - 11:45 AM, said:

I don't know what Davion you will get a bounty from, but they damn sure won't represent the interests of all the units. They are a great bunch of guys, and all of these personal attacks over nothing are silly at best.

Indeed. Well spoken Nomad. We will be right there with you shoulder to shoulder, just give us a call.

[LordRush]

ok..lol personally feel it is time for a little clarity shed on this conversation. And yes, some of the original meanings have been lost from the original post.
Dihm - First and foremost I feel the need to explain to you about my position. If you look back to the very first page and the number 2 post,I clearly state my position. I myself am NOT looking for a House position. I feel I have stated this multiple times. This isnt a thread tooting my own horn. I am merely attempting to give those that I respect, in a former community, support.
My campaign, if you will, has been to reinforce a 15+ year "club" that had shown exemplary service to the fictional House which was created and upheld by MANY members of previous Battletech games.
As I stated in another posting...
"ok...I admit it. I have been overzealous. I wont deny it. When this game
was announced, the sense of nostalgia, that still has yet to leave, has
overcome me. I dont think I need to portray my emotions any further as I
feel that it is perfectly known"

This stands true...I wont deny it, however seeing the indifference in opinions stated on this thread I feel even more passionate about it.
I stand firm in my opinion and feel that it is the "others" who are cutting themselves off and literally shooting themselves in the foot by not taking advantage of having these people involved. However, if this is what they choose...so be it.
It is cause and effect. I say this because in no way will this diminish the mentality that all of us old community vets have.
If you werent around for that...I wish you could have been. But dont even try to take away OUR traditions [and I speak for ALL houses of old] because it wont ever leave. In a nutshell...I guess we have to do things like we did it before on our own and without the support of many.

Edited by LordRush, 03 April 2012 - 11:53 AM.

[xMarshallx]

Listless Nomad, on 03 April 2012 - 11:45 AM, said:

I don't know what Davion you will get a bounty from, but they damn sure won't represent the interests of all the units. They are a great bunch of guys, and all of these personal attacks over nothing are silly at best.

My friend, that was not a personal attack in which I posted and I am sorry you feel that way. Just an honest observation of how the unit I'm with may receive some extra c-bills thrown our way.. think of us as exterminators. Personal attack? No. Egotistical warning of things to come? Absolutely!

[Listless Nomad]

The Sniper, on 03 April 2012 - 12:02 PM, said:

My friend, that was not a personal attack in which I posted and I am sorry you feel that way. Just an honest observation of how the unit I'm with may receive some extra c-bills thrown our way.. think of us as exterminators. Personal attack? No. Egotistical warning of things to come? Absolutely!

The "personal attack" comment was directed more towards the others who were denigrating Dihm, and his merc buddies merely for being house affiliated mercenaries...exactly like the Rangers are. I respect unattached mercs, and look forward to squaring off against you in the future. No hard feelings - just amazed at this thread and what's being said.

[Dihm]

LordRush, on 03 April 2012 - 11:51 AM, said:

Dihm - First and foremost I feel the need to explain to you about my position. If you look back to the very first page and the number 2 post,I clearly state my position. I myself am NOT looking for a House position. I feel I have stated this multiple times. This isnt a thread tooting my own horn. I am merely attempting to give those that I respect, in a former community, support.

My campaign, if you will, has been to reinforce a 15+ year "club" that had shown exemplary service to the fictional House which was created and upheld by MANY members of previous Battletech games.

Hm, maybe I'm not being clear. I have no issue with you or a Davion player unit alliance. Again, I'm just trying to bring up the facts of the game and the issues with calling that Davion player unit alliance "House Davion."

LordRush, on 03 April 2012 - 11:51 AM, said:

I stand firm in my opinion and feel that it is the "others" who are cutting themselves off and literally shooting themselves in the foot by not taking advantage of having these people involved. However, if this is what they choose...so be it.
It is cause and effect. I say this because in no way will this diminish the mentality that all of us old community vets have.
If you werent around for that...I wish you could have been. But dont even try to take away OUR traditions [and I speak for ALL houses of old] because it wont ever leave. In a nutshell...I guess we have to do things like we did it before on our own and without the support of many.

I certainly wouldn't presume to "take away your traditions". I'm just trying to point out that the scale of this game will be much more grand than anything you've seen in the 15 year history of your "club". There will be way more people playing this game which the developers are setting up intentially to not have player control of the factions. When you, as you just stated yourself, will be doing it "without the support of many", it seems strange to call it the "House Davion CoC" or for members of this "club" to claim to be the "Prince of House Davion" and the like. Can you see where I, and others as well, are coming from?

I don't know how this turned in to personal attacks against me.

The Sniper, on 03 April 2012 - 12:02 PM, said:

My friend, that was not a personal attack in which I posted and I am sorry you feel that way. Just an honest observation of how the unit I'm with may receive some extra c-bills thrown our way.. think of us as exterminators. Personal attack? No. Egotistical warning of things to come? Absolutely!

What is your unit any way, it's always fun to have a rivalry.

Edited by Dihm, 03 April 2012 - 12:11 PM.

[xMarshallx]

Listless Nomad, on 03 April 2012 - 12:06 PM, said:

The "personal attack" comment was directed more towards the others who were denigrating Dihm, and his merc buddies merely for being house affiliated mercenaries...exactly like the Rangers are. I respect unattached mercs, and look forward to squaring off against you in the future. No hard feelings - just amazed at this thread and what's being said.

What is going on in this thread is the main reason I'm pushing for the group of players which I played with in MPBT to detach ourselves from any house affiliation and run strictly merc. Unfortunately, if the entire player base feels the way I do the end result will make houses glorified merc units with no command structure. Who will be in charge of coordinating troops? Who will have the authority to pay merc units to work for a particular house? These questions may have been answered in Dev posts which I have missed, the issue remains that I keep hearing that house structure will not be player controlled. In my opinion the decision to take that approach removes a critical element of this game, both tactical and political, that one can argue is essential for the success of the persistent universe and community.

[LordRush]

No Dihm...I perfectly understand and validate your point. It is a very sharp edged catch 22.
BOTH groups will have to come to an agreement or it will be divided. Plain and simple.

O and TSA {The Scorps for short} are my unit. Love to tango on the field as well!

Edited by LordRush, 03 April 2012 - 12:25 PM.

[xMarshallx]

Dihm, on 03 April 2012 - 12:10 PM, said:

What is your unit any way, it's always fun to have a rivalry.

We are a mixture of DRAAGUN and Crescent Hawks (from Solaris) but I am assuming we will continue with the DRAAGUN name here. Home of 4 of 5 player run league tournaments in MPBT: Solaris, winner of the only game sponsored team tournament (with prizes in value of I think roughly $800 distributed to each lance member) in MPBT: Solaris, we have on board the winner of the 1v1 game sponsored tournament with a grand prize of a brand new Dell Computer (Pentium 2.. back in the day. Oh, that was me btw) in MPBT:Solaris, and home of Vengeance League champions in MW:4. This explains, in a nutshell, who we are.