589 replies to this topic

[Giftmacher]

The way I see it, the lack of VOIP is going to be something of a barrier to lone wolves isn't it? Being unguilded means no chat, and therefore less useful as a combatant in such a fast paced game. (Let's not forget keyboard and mouse control means taking your hands off the wheel to talk, most people will not appreciate abandoning control of their mech to type.)

And why really, because it takes a few seconds to mute annoying people (just like /addignore), and people have been put off of VOIP by the mouth breathing denizens of x-box live (not even the same platform.)?

[Trevnor]

Very well said Orzorn. And I couldn't agree more.

[Ghost]

Render, on 06 April 2012 - 06:51 AM, said:

Yeah... Right... Okay... Just keep telling that to yourself... And keep reminding yourself how smart you are... Yes you are... and everyone but you is just a big dummy.

I knew there was a reason I was called to this thread. Personal attacks go against the Code of Conduct, consider this an official warning. Name calling? Really?

pursang, on 06 April 2012 - 06:55 AM, said:

Now see, this is an excellent post that showcases the problems that can arise. I've always been more in favor of communities (like this one) policing themselves. Well, so to speak.

What a coincidence, so do I! Why, just a few months ago this particular community had a certain member that was causing a lot of trouble, but you guys definitely weren't shy about letting him know what you thought about that. Poof, he was gone!

[Orzorn]

Giftmacher, on 06 April 2012 - 07:47 AM, said:

The way I see it, the lack of VOIP is going to be something of a barrier to lone wolves isn't it? Being unguilded means no chat, and therefore less useful as a combatant in such a fast paced game. (Let's not forget keyboard and mouse control means taking your hands off the wheel to talk, most people will not appreciate abandoning control of their mech to type.)

And that's what I'm worried about. Mechwarrior can be a complex game, and not having anyone to talk to would really alienate new players, especially if the rest of their team is together and already on vent/TS/mumble. Are those players going to take their time to tell the one or two pubs whats happening? I think this might just lead to groups shunning pubs and pubs rarely getting a chance to get their foot in the door. How do I know how good a player is if I can't even talk to him/her?

[Aegis Kleais]

In my experience, 97% of Pub "chatter" is inane content that has nothing to do with the game. It's someone screaming into the mic, mic spamming music, talking about their day, discussing game updates or something that has nothing to do with the game being played.

I'd rather have that nixed. When there's freely available in-game comms, it's abused more often than used.

In a TS/Vent server, people are there for a reason. To coordinate with one another. Yeah, it's more work to do, and I'm sure there'll be issues with it, but cest la vie.

[Orzorn]

Aegis Kleais™, on 06 April 2012 - 08:04 AM, said:

In my experience, 97% of Pub "chatter" is inane content that has nothing to do with the game. It's someone screaming into the mic, mic spamming music, talking about their day, discussing game updates or something that has nothing to do with the game being played.

I'd rather have that nixed. When there's freely available in-game comms, it's abused more often than used.

So mute them.

Quote

In a TS/Vent server, people are there for a reason. To coordinate with one another. Yeah, it's more work to do, and I'm sure there'll be issues with it, but cest la vie.

Seriously, as I've said, lots of people in Dota 2 use the voice chat for very legitimate reasons. People never use it for things not directly relating to the game at hand unless they're specifically using it to troll (which is a quick v to open the score board, then click on the mute button. Problem solved, and we didn't even have to remove an entire feature to do it! Wow!). Perhaps its the kind of games you play (I've played games where the voice chat was indeed never used to discuss the game at hand, like call of duty), but games like Dota that require good teamwork rarely, if ever, have people using the voice chat for ANYTHING other than the current game. Pubs WILL work with the team (at least, to the best of their ability, which sometimes is really pathetic).

Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

[Dread Render]

could there be Voice to Text perhaps?
that way some words could be filtered...

[Oderint dum Metuant]

Orzorn, on 06 April 2012 - 07:55 AM, said:

And that's what I'm worried about. Mechwarrior can be a complex game, and not having anyone to talk to would really alienate new players, especially if the rest of their team is together and already on vent/TS/mumble. Are those players going to take their time to tell the one or two pubs whats happening? I think this might just lead to groups shunning pubs and pubs rarely getting a chance to get their foot in the door. How do I know how good a player is if I can't even talk to him/her?

Common sense dictates if your 2 randomers in a game with 10 others from the same clan, you stick with them and follow.

[Orzorn]

DV^McKenna, on 06 April 2012 - 08:26 AM, said:

Common sense dictates if your 2 randomers in a game with 10 others from the same clan, you stick with them and follow.

It would, but the number of times I beaten absolutely awful 5 man teams in Dota says otherwise. Some groups are truly awful. Most duo players are pretty awful as well, usually two kids playing together or something. It happens pretty often. I don't know how to explain the phenomenon, but it does.

Regardless, don't the pub players deserve the same level of communication as us? And that's just assuming that its like 10 players together. I expect most games will have 4 or 5 people together, so you'll get a game with 2 groups of 4 or 5, and then 2-3 pubs. There is also plenty of chance that the team could have a majority of pubs, with a minority of groups. The most common group of players in Dota is usually 2, a person and his/her friend playing together. The point is, contrary to what many folks here might think (most likely because they're used to Mechwarrior 4 and MWLL), pubs will be in every game, and there are going to be a lot of them. Having the capability to communicate is not only fair to them, its also helpful to them AND TO US. If people are so adamant about being a team, why are so many people here acting like the pubs aren't important?

Edited by Orzorn, 06 April 2012 - 08:35 AM.

[Aegis Kleais]

Orzorn, on 06 April 2012 - 08:12 AM, said:

So mute them.

You're assuming the game offers per-user muting. Oddly in many of the games I've played, you can usually only disable ALL voice completely rather that per-user muting.

[Orzorn]

Aegis Kleais™, on 06 April 2012 - 08:30 AM, said:

You're assuming the game offers per-user muting. Oddly in many of the games I've played, you can usually only disable ALL voice completely rather that per-user muting.

I have no idea what games you've been playing, but the vast majority of games I play (usually, of course, from Valve) over muting of individuals.

We should all stop basing our ideas of VOIP upon misconceptions or how certain games have done it. That is bad logic (game X did it this way, so game Y must too). The obvious choice, of course, is for VOIP to be done as well as it can, and that is to have the voice aspect, and individual mutes. Anything else is ridiculous.

[Aegis Kleais]

Orzorn, on 06 April 2012 - 08:46 AM, said:

I have no idea what games you've been playing, but the vast majority of games I play (usually, of course, from Valve) over muting of individuals.

We should all stop basing our ideas of VOIP upon misconceptions or how certain games have done it. That is bad logic (game X did it this way, so game Y must too). The obvious choice, of course, is for VOIP to be done as well as it can, and that is to have the voice aspect, and individual mutes. Anything else is ridiculous.

Agreed. I was just surprised you thought the solution for my problem was to implement a feature (muting) that wasn't supported in the game. (Of course I'd be smart enough to mute if the game offered it)

But this is why we NEED server renting! I miss the days where we had like 500 people on our server's blacklist from people ignoring the MOTD (which stated all the rules) and then mic spamming/griefing/TKing/etc. and getting insta-banned. My belief is you don't punish children with slaps on the wrist. YOU BUST OUT THE WHOMPIN STICK!

[plodder]

Bryan Ekman, on 05 April 2012 - 09:51 AM, said:

My personal experience with VOIP has been as follows:

EverQuest - tried, failed, much easier to use chat.
EVE - IPO (initial public offering), horribly executed by CCP, everyone used their own Vent or TS.
BF2 - Private server (clans usually play multiple games, and a single room based Vent/TS server is much easier for them to manage)
COD 1-7 (xbox) - I have to mute it because of people dropping ignorant, racist, and other awful crap.

I've hear people are using Skype for coordinating games in WoT!

In short, my personal assessment of VOIP is those players that actually use it, and use it well, are well organized and prefer to have their own setup. People playing casual matches generally don't use VOIP.

Not being an avid gamer, or ever used a team voice system, this thread has been as confusing as helpful. But I think the Staff fella speaks reason (no insult meant). I myself had (eons ago) a hard time typing to my team in Mechwarrior 3 when i played online, my typing skills are nil. I look forward to using a voice system, and assume, that as a Lone Wolf, or a noob, that guys will do what guys do, and fanatics always do, they figure a way for it to work. Links, Topics, whatever. Let's face it, the reason this thread is so hot, it is because you care. Concerned for the poor pitiful new guy most of us were at one time, too ignorant, slow, or weak, to figure it out. Wanting to adopt the funny looking puppy with the floppy ear, but worry about it getting your team waxed by the pup walking under your legs at the wrong time. Thanks uncle danno

[Nik Van Rhijn]

At the moment it looks like I will be playing mainly as a PUB, well to be honest when I want a quick blast. Without built in comms I can see no point in trying to play very often, so I'll leave it to the teams - hopefully there are enough of you to keep the game going 6 months in when the newcomers have come in, been ignored and roflstomped by the teams.

[Dread Render]

Sorry... what is a PUB?

[Orzorn]

Render, on 06 April 2012 - 09:09 AM, said:

Sorry... what is a PUB?

Public player. It used to mean player who plays public, instead of private, matches, usually meaning not-organized, but has come to represent any player not playing in a group.

[geck0 icaza]

This is really a simple thing to deal with. "Anyone got Vent/TS3/Skype?". "Yeah, here it is [blah blah]".

Play a game, make friends, be an adult about it.

/2 cents

[Victor Morson]

Aegis Kleais™, on 06 April 2012 - 08:04 AM, said:

In my experience, 97% of Pub "chatter" is inane content that has nothing to do with the game. It's someone screaming into the mic, mic spamming music, talking about their day, discussing game updates or something that has nothing to do with the game being played.

I'd rather have that nixed. When there's freely available in-game comms, it's abused more often than used.

That is anecdotal experience that's disconnected with my own experiences. Sure, I've seen that before, but the bottom line is it depends on the game. In games that are very laid back towards tight teamwork, you'll see this more. You'll see some annoying people in all games.

But I've also seen VoIP be absolutely vital to games where tight teamwork is key. MechWarrior has always been one of those games.

I mentioned Left 4 Dead before, but it's the most easy example of this. People without microphones are considered a hindrance - people who mute the team are a disaster. Voice communication is so extremely important, I don't even know how to explain; in particular in realism modes. I play a lot of Versus, where you need to call out who's attacking, where and in what order to have any chance of winning infected - and clearly call out what's going on when you are survivor and it his the fan. Sometimes you need a timed countdown - you want to hit, or jump a one-way location, EXACTLY at the same time - you do a 3.. 2.. 1. That won't work with typing, not without having your hand off the mouse. Someone not listening to a warning or cry for help - just once - can sink the entire game in seconds.

Again, in my experience, MechWarrior is a lot like this. Failing to listen to target calls and information (not just the target, but the location on their 'mech to hit) alone is a game breaker. There is a reason that we've waded onto MWLL servers with 6:1 kill ratios at a minimum. That was even higher in MW4 pub games.

Plus, we're talking command support abilities here. You going to warn the guys in grid B4 you're dropping artillery there in 30 seconds? You going to type that to them while the enemy is running around, instead of being able to shout "Get outta there!" at 'em? It just gets more problematic from there. If VoIP isn't included it'll handicap the majority of the player base even further than they already were - by a big, big margin.

geck0 icaza, on 06 April 2012 - 09:17 AM, said:

This is really a simple thing to deal with. "Anyone got Vent/TS3/Skype?". "Yeah, here it is [blah blah]".

Play a game, make friends, be an adult about it.

/2 cents

"Anyone got Vent?"

"No I have Skype"
"no"
"no whats that"
"I use mumble"
"whats the IP let me write it down?" -idle-
"ok ill connect" -crash-
"I'm already on TS with my team I don't wanna join the pub one"

etc.

Edited by Victor Morson, 06 April 2012 - 09:35 AM.

[TheRulesLawyer]

I've enjoyed in game voip on PC games that have it. Consoles not so much. The biggest problem seems to be getting people to set it up, even if they only can listen. Most of the time its is muted by default, so you have to convince them to turn it on and walk them through it. If its on be default you get people whining about trolls on comms. In game voip increases my enjoyment playing with pubs considerably. It goes from random uncoordinated match after uncoordinated match to having an organized team at least once in awhile. However the sad fact is that not many people bother to turn it on, and its open to easy abuse.

I'll live with a well implemented comm rose.

[Dread Render]

Victor Morson, on 06 April 2012 - 09:29 AM, said:

"Anyone got Vent?"

"No I have Skype"
"no"
"no whats that"
"I use mumble"
"whats the IP let me write it down?" -idle-
"ok ill connect" -crash-
"I'm already on TS with my team I don't wanna join the pub one"
etc.

Yes... this is exactly what will happen. It will happen over and over.
the result... The teams where each player has the same Voice system will win again and again.
The people, PUB, will be SOL and may eventually just give up in frustration.