589 replies to this topic

[Protection]

Tryg, on 27 May 2012 - 11:39 PM, said:

And removing the ability to communicate with team members who aren't in your specific 'unit' voip server is a sure way to stretch that 70% out a bit more.

I'm all in favor of third party programs. But if I load up a game at 2am, I can promise you most of my unit won't be on. So now my choices are pass out private server info to some random players before a match and hope they can get connected...or forsake any form of voice communication?

For all those folks who don't like it, don't use it. The inclusion of VOIP in-game will not impair your ability to use third party programs of your choice. The exclusion of in-game VOIP WILL impair the ability of players who cannot join a third party voip. And before you say "Everyone can" consider how often you hard core gamers give out access to your private servers?

I've played CS since the early days, then later CS source, and several of the CoD and Battlefield titles. I have to say, in that time, I've found I very much dislike inviting random sorts to my private servers. But at the same time, I do like being able to communicate with random players who are willing to work with the team. This in fact, has led to several players being recruited. Without in-game voice, my gaming group would be less these players and worse for it.

I'd encourage the devs to consider the fact that one decision limits player options, the other places no limits (provided the 'normal' tools to opt-out through options as well as individually apply mutes are included)

Seriously, I'd give the devs my $60 bucks right now if they could guarantee some sort of in game voice. Without it, I just cant see drop in teams being effective. I realize that it would pull resources from somewhere else, but surely the Urbanmech can wait - getting voice in and done right is important.

[Vashts1985]

good ole text chat works

(at least i hope they arent silly like bioware and forget essentials such as this)

Quote

Seriously, I'd give the devs my $60 bucks right now if they could guarantee some sort of in game voice.

they already have my 60 bucks and they dont have to bend over backwards to meet my demands.

Edited by Vashts1985, 27 May 2012 - 11:49 PM.

[Tryg]

Protection, on 27 May 2012 - 11:43 PM, said:

Seriously, I'd give the devs my $60 bucks right now if they could guarantee some sort of in game voice. Without it, I just cant see drop in teams being effective. I realize that it would pull resources from somewhere else, but surely the Urbanmech can wait - getting voice in and done right is important.

They'll have my money with or without. As with battlefield 3 though, it shocked me to hear they hadn't included it by default. Did I still play BF3, yes. At least for a while. But without the community aspect of the game, it got old quick. Games like CS, I still play despite being outdated and downright goofy by modern standards of gaming ballistics and physics. And it isn't cause of the game itself that I still play it, it's the community factor. I play because I found a good group of guys to run with, and we run in several other games now because of that. But without in-game voice, it never would have happened.

And Vashts, Text chat works fine provided you're well away from the danger. But to type, you have to forsake control of your mech, and depending on how much you need to convey, that can be a fatal mistake. A few quick keystrokes are easy. Conveying complex information to someone you do not have a short-hand with? Much more complicated. And the consolation-prize... the commo rose system. I've never seen one of those implemented that worked even a tenth as well as voice. The choices for such a system are deep menus with lots of options, or options so generic you can't easily convey what you need to say (or more importantly) Who you're trying to say it to. If you have a team of 11 other players, a commo-rose option to shout a warning may not be enough information. A crucial piece of info in that situation is WHO needs to be taking heed of the warning. Could the players in a lance/company be coded into a commo-rose? Sure, but that would be yet /another/ menu you'd have to drop into (and have just one more chance of sending the info the wrong way with a fateful misclick)

*edited to nab at least a couple of those pesky spelling errors.

Edited by Tryg, 27 May 2012 - 11:56 PM.

[masterblaster77]

I really think this is a mistake because there are so many portable and cost effective programs to work with games.

The biggest reason for having voip in this game is because it is a combat multiplier. If everyone has voip then you it means more people will be able to communicate fast to each other during combat. This makes pug players better which makes the rest of the communities experience in each match better.

IMHO making the solo, not solo/duo, experience better will result in better reviews and better first experience and prolonged gameplay. This is a must for starting F2P. IMO.

Edited by masterblaster77, 28 May 2012 - 12:14 AM.

[Jonneh]

Lets face it.

Xbox live teaches us one thing. VOIP included at the game level is largely used to yell abuse at one another rather than to ever organise a team properly. When a game has VOIP included, the first thing I do is turn it off. The list of team games that *have* VOIP built in but find it completely unused is pretty long. Wow, HoN, Starcraft 2, Counter Strike (unless you like music being played at you) etc etc etc

If you want VOIP organised game play, get a vent server and up to 11 friends. Even if only 2-5 of you (or whatever) are organised, you can still play a huge part in a 12v12 team game by working together.

[tynaiden]

I would like to add another vote of confidence in a system like the Tribes: Ascend VGS for shortcut callouts, it's ALT key enemy quick mark, and Team Fortress 2's integrated chat.

Previously up-thread a dev stated they would try to check out the VGS so hopefully we may see a system at least inspired it.

Also mentioned up-thread is how integrated chats like TF2's helps with pub matches. For what it's negatives are, there are options available to deal with them. Besides, would anyone care to team up with someone that spouts off so verbally anyhow? Most of them leave, get banned, or even shunned from future play after awhile.

While it is not comforting to knowingly lower playerbase, a detractor as great as any mic, quick-comm, or text chat abuser could cause even more harm over the long haul. Best they leave earlier while they are hopefully not so dead set on trying to dissuade future players.

[Khorneholio]

Jonneh, on 28 May 2012 - 12:51 AM, said:

Lets face it.

Xbox live teaches us one thing. VOIP included at the game level is largely used to yell abuse at one another rather than to ever organise a team properly. When a game has VOIP included, the first thing I do is turn it off. The list of team games that *have* VOIP built in but find it completely unused is pretty long. Wow, HoN, Starcraft 2, Counter Strike (unless you like music being played at you) etc etc etc

If you want VOIP organised game play, get a vent server and up to 11 friends. Even if only 2-5 of you (or whatever) are organised, you can still play a huge part in a 12v12 team game by working together.

Xbox live teaches us that VOIP is largely used to yell abuse in XBOX LIVE GAMES. This has no bearing on MWO whatsoever. Just because you find other PC games VOIP to be useless doesn't mean that the rest of us do. You yourself said that you immediately turn off VOIP... but then you say that nobody uses it. How the heck would you know?

You say that if we want VOIP organised gameplay we should get a vent server. No... YOU should get a vent server, shut off your integrated VOIP and play in your own little world with your cliche. I'd prefer a plan that includes everyone equally instead of dividing them up.

So you're organised with your 3 or 4 friends and who cares what the other 8 people on your team are doing, right? So instead of 12 on 12 we have 4 and 1 and 1 and 1 and 3 and 2 vs 5 and 1 and 1 and 2 and 2 and 3?

Why even have 12 man sides if this is how it's going to end up? I'd much rather have 8 on 8 with integral VOIP than the virtual free for all you'd see MWO degenerate into.

Edited by Khorneholio, 28 May 2012 - 02:53 AM.

[FrostPaw]

Here's the thing, when I'm in a pug, I don't know you, I don't care to hear you and I certainly won't be rushing to follow your orders.

Command is something that you should earn through respect and experience, not because you just have a mic and put a command mod on your mech.

Battlefield 2 taught me commanders in pugs mostly just mess things up and shout a lot that nobody is paying attention to their magnificent and brilliant plan of glorius success. It's far more likiely you will lose a match because of your commander than you will win one because of them in random pugs.

The difference between using mics in pugs and using mics in organised teams is generaly discipline on what gets aired. I don't want to hear you belching, farting, chomping food, shouting at your dog or answering mommies dinner call. I also don't like your taste in music and you aren't as funny or cool as you think you are.

People who should be on mics > people who often use mics.

Edited by FrostPaw, 28 May 2012 - 02:57 AM.

[Khorneholio]

FrostPaw, on 28 May 2012 - 02:50 AM, said:

Here's the thing, when I'm in a pug, I don't know you, I don't care to hear you and I certainly won't be rushing to follow your orders.

Command is something that you should earn through respect and experience, not because you just have a mic and put a command mod on your mech.

Battlefield 2 taught me commanders in pugs mostly just mess things up and shout a lot that nobody is paying attention to their magnificent and brilliant plan of glorius success. It's far more likiely you will lose a match because of your commander than you will win one because of them in random pugs.

The difference between using mics in pugs and using mics in organised teams is generaly discipline on what gets aired. I don't want to hear you belching, farting, chomping food, shouting at your dog or answering mommies dinner call. I also don't like your taste in music and you aren't as funny or cool as you think you are.

People who should be on mics > people who often use mics.

There is a lot of what you say that I agree with. The thing you have to remember is the fact that VOIP is optional and the almighty power of the mute function (Which I have to assume would be part of any VOIP solution).

***** #1 yelling at his dog *mute* now we have 11 players in com.
***** #2 arguing with his mom about what kind of combos she bought *mute* now we have 10 players in com.
***** #3 trying to play little napoleon and annoying everyone *mute* now we have 9 players in com...

Ok... good. Now we have 9 decent guys in communication and I add 3 names to my ignore list. Over time this is how you start to form a micro community around yourself. You friend the cool folks, mute and ignore the smacktards, and like types end up playing with like types.

[Silverfang22]

MechWarrior Online should have VOIP, You won't always be playing with friends and it would be a huge hassle to connect to the people you're playing with's vent, TS, whatever, especially if you're not playing with the same people each round (and they also might not even have one).

Oh, to solve "squeaker" problems and the likes, there could be a feature that if the system notes a vast amount of players muting somebody (lets say, 10%, keep in mind there will be thousands of players) some people can have the option to not hear the "shunned" players that have been muted by a lot of people. (this "shunning" could wear off after a week or longer if it happens more after that ... or something, I'm just making up arbitrary numbers)

Edited by Silverfang22, 28 May 2012 - 03:32 AM.

[Aelos03]

I think its wrong not to include it in game because its useful and optional i really don't see reason why not to include system like that in game
i know it will help me communicate and thats good in my book.

[GrizzlyViking]

Bryan Ekman, on 05 April 2012 - 09:41 AM, said:

We always weigh what is of the most value to the consumer. While VOIP is a reasonable value, a high quality MWO VOIP solution was not feasible for launch. We have a backlog of features, VOIP being one of them. Post launch, we plan to revisit VOIP and see what we can come up with.

In the mean time you can get your own VOIP.

Go here: https://clients.shra...=69&product=636 and you can rent a 20 person server for about $60/year ($5/month) Most groups will not likely need more than 20 person capable, but if you need more you can get them.

Then, go here: http://www.ventrilo.com/index.php

Ventrillo is a good quality VOIP and it is pretty user friendly for folks with gamer level computer skills.

This is really a cheap and easy solution to solve these issues and there are several payment options available. I expect that every group will have at least one person that can handle $60 a year. It's not really a problem.

[Funbags]

Why people pay for ventrilo is beyond me, there are plenty of free / better options like hosting your own mumble or teamspeak server.

Anyways, Team based voice comm should be included in the game, there are far to many people that will not install the voice client and ruin the game for those that prefer a more organized drop.

This WILL cause people to only run in groups they know / play with on a consistent basis.

Edited by Funbags, 28 May 2012 - 03:43 AM.

[HellJumper]

Paul Inouye, on 05 April 2012 - 09:21 AM, said:

FIIIINNNNEEEEE!!!

Light the torches... grab the pitchforks!

Lolz ...i am not with them or against them

Edited by HellJumper, 28 May 2012 - 04:12 AM.

[Xenodraken]

Bleh.. come up with an API that can be offered to third party VOIP devs to integrate their clients into MWO Matchs. So if you arent with your normal group you can still use your prefered coms. Talk local or just team or what ever. Hell maybe a match option for 'realistic coms' where a pilot with a badly damaged mech will come out garbled or the incoming the same. If players dont like the option they dont have to enable it in a match.

Let the voice guys to the legwork and come up with their 'plugin' that works with MWO. *shrugs*

Car makers dont worry about making tires for the cars they sell.. they let the tire people do that for them

Edited by Xenodraken, 28 May 2012 - 04:13 AM.

[Naduk]

i would like to add my 2cents here
my clan comes from the BattleField community, in game voip has been a major feature of the BF series
BF3 was supposed to be the true successor to BF2 in all its glory, yet DICE decided to leave voip out of it
they included some rag tag friend list only thing that only works(a very lose term in any DICE game) when you make a party within your friends list (talk about exclusive)
this essentially forces everyone in the server to communicate via txt chat

when your in a real time combat simulation, there is NO time to use text chat to call or help,orders,air support or anything else
so most players in BF3 simply dont bother, or worse tell people who are trying to coordinate with their team to shut up because the chat box annoys people
this one small feature missing from the newer game practically kills it and most dont even realize it,
they just cant put a finger on why it feels like it has less team play, if my clan did not have our own voip we would of all quit BF3 a few weeks after launch

BF2 had it perfect, join game, join squad , voip to squad, squad leader voip to commander , commander voip to squad leaders/own squad
it only needed two buttons. it never mattered if players didnt have a mic as they could hear you

not being able to do cool things like scramble voice coms or eves drop on enemy radio chatter is NO reason to ignore the feature

my battlefield clan was formed by pubs, we were a few random guys who helped each other out in a battle game a few times
now we have an extraordinary set of online friends and a whole clan running that plays a huge slew of games
none of that would of happened if BF2 / BF2142 did not have inbuilt voip

many people are concerned about abusive kiddy's from cod coming in
i really do not see this as a threat, sure there are people who are abusive, true for any community
however being part of the Mechwarrior fan base a long time i know we are more akin to the battlefield community rather than cod
sure we have some 14 year olds but most of us are mentally mature enough to use a voip system for its intended purpose
and for when there isnt, mute works fine

oh and please when/if you do add voip PGI please make it push to talk ONLY!!!!
open mics are so horrid

[Strum Wealh]

Funbags, on 28 May 2012 - 03:41 AM, said:

Anyways, Team based voice comm should be included in the game, there are far to many people that will not install the voice client and ruin the game for those that prefer a more organized drop.

However, the point was made earlier that many of the people who would be on VOIP... shouldn't be.

Personally, I would prefer to use VOIP if and only if it were

• integrated into MWO itself
  
• selectively mutable
  
• usable at no extra cost
  
• provided with sufficient (not necessarily "good"; "sufficient" would suffice) audio fidelity to actually make it worthwhile

I'd even be okay with integrated VOIP being susceptible to certain in-game effects (e.g. jamming by GECM).

I also hope that there is a text-based communication window (with the same capabilities and limitations as above)...

[Skult]

I can say this only from my own personal perspective. I have played fps and strategy games that included VOIP and every time I have turned it off and used skype. So if MWO did have a VOIP system I wouldn't use it.

[Hagan]

I for one am divided on the VoIP issue because:
A) My guilds server can get stretched when everyone is pilled on over multiple games.
and
There is nothing worse than having someone jump into your channel and start chatting endlessly when your trying to co-ordinate a battle.

Don't get me wrong, I like t chat, just not when I'm getting competitive and trying to ruin someones night by being better than they are at directing small to large scale wars.

In game VoIP would be a boon to Mechwarrior, but it does come with problems. Bandwidth, codec compatibility, quick join/leave functionality, and all whilst trying to play the client anyway can be tricky to keep running smoothly. And not to pick at this but, the game IS free to play... just how many resources do you think Piranha have to throw at this?

But I'm sure that point hasn't occurred to many people.

[Flux Reversal]

Even if they had in-game VOIP they better make a way to disable it easily. And I'm not going to read 18 pages of discussion about it to see if some on else said it already, lol!