589 replies to this topic

[wwiiogre]

Prosperity,

I am like both of you. Did not ever play MW online other than LAN parties which don't count. I was part of a huge Tribes clan but we were family and friends with only a few not local and would get together and then all LAN into our local server and then play online off a T3 line. So I researched the Merc units and found one with people similar to me, older and more interested in the immersion. And then I joined that group. Northwind Highlanders. We have a forum at MekTek, we will get our own voice server I am sure or use the one NoGutsNoGalaxy is offering for free to units or someother. I was hoping for ingame voip because of the immersion. But since it won't make release, hopefully it will be added later. So find friends or make them, or at least find people with similar interests. It really isn't that hard. I did it and I am an ogre.

chris

[Archtus]

I'm sorry, but trying to justify it with that logic seems more along the lines of "It's more work now that we don't want to do" as opposed to "It's not logical to implement this"

I understand this is your game to be developing, but I do plan on paying for things in game.

Technoviking:

Comparing the WoW waste is kind of unrelated. Adding VoIP to a game that has long been around and people were using other options first is kind of backwards to this situation.

Me? I play DDO. I play PUGs. Even when I do play with my group of 8 some guild mates, guess what? we use DDO's in game VoIP. Why? It's easy. It's already there, and it works. I honestly DO NOT WANT to have to download all of the major VoIPs, figure out this particular PUG's server, ALTTAB out, input it, mess up, ALTTAB in, double check, ALTTAB out, get it right, and then make sure I'm in the right damn room.

Seriously, implementing an honest to goodness VoIP in client with all of the features you planned? I've waited a decade for a game like this, what's another month?

[Vexgrave Lars]

Even if they had it, pretty sure we'd still use one of our choice, for features overlays ext..

The only place I see that lacking is this...

It could have been part of Info warfare to listen in on enemy chatter. But as soon as people realized they could get eavesdropped on they'd go to 3rd party anyway.

[Motionless]

Grithis, on 05 April 2012 - 10:49 AM, said:

This means that EVERY SINGLE game I join, I'm going to have to find out whether they're using TS, Vent, or whatever else there is.

More likely you join and no one is using any of that, or they don't want to give it to you. When I've used vent/ts with friends and randoms asked to join, none of us would want to take the time to get the info they need to join, and nor do we want them to join. So generally you just don't respond to those people asking to join you.

I mean, you wont get along with certain strangers, if you want to talk about people harassing eachother with voice -- it's only worse if they decide they don't like you AND they know how to contact you on a reliable basis (specific vent server.) Like those ventrillo harassment videos and stuff are hilarious from a 3rd party perspective (or if you've ever accompanied someone you knew would be trying to cause a ruckus on 3rd party voice comms -- which is gold, pure gold(I've seen this done very effectively on very highly populated comms for WoW raiding guilds and EVE fleets),) but there's a reason you don't invite randoms into your vent.

[Felicitatem Parco]

Vexgrave Lars, on 05 April 2012 - 11:00 AM, said:

Even if they had it, pretty sure we'd still use one of our choice, for features overlays ext..

The only place I see that lacking is this...

It could have been part of Info warfare to listen in on enemy chatter. But as soon as people realized they could get eavesdropped on they'd go to 3rd party anyway.

That's what the devs said.

The disgraceful comm-hopping people you just described can kiss my lower rear torso.

Edited by Prosperity Park, 05 April 2012 - 11:04 AM.

[Kenyon Burguess]

i doubt i would use it. txt wht u want. i can follow coordinates on a map to go to. i dont want to hear your TMI story about your joystick and that one time at mechassault camp..

[Felicitatem Parco]

"Block User: XXXXXX"

... a useful tool to avoid TMI stories about MechAssault camp.



Not wanting to hear your teammates is not a logical reason to nerf in-game VoIP. A logical reason to nerf in-game VoIP would be the lack of a subscribing playerbase, and that is what the Devs fear will happen. I don't like people complaining about an entity when you can easily mend the problems they are describing. Not buying a car because it's dirty? Just wash it, and ytou'll be happy. Someone on your team too chatty? Block them and you'll be happy.

Don't be unhappy for no reason.


If you won't use in-game VoIP because of the gameplay effects it will cause, now THAT is a reason to complain about it.

Edited by Prosperity Park, 05 April 2012 - 11:09 AM.

[CeeKay Boques]

Archtus, on 05 April 2012 - 11:00 AM, said:

Technoviking:

Comparing the WoW waste is kind of unrelated. Adding VoIP to a game that has long been around and people were using other options first is kind of backwards to this situation.

Me? I play DDO. I play PUGs. Even when I do play with my group of 8 some guild mates, guess what? we use DDO's in game VoIP. Why? It's easy. It's already there, and it works. I honestly DO NOT WANT to have to download all of the major VoIPs, figure out this particular PUG's server, ALTTAB out, input it, mess up, ALTTAB in, double check, ALTTAB out, get it right, and then make sure I'm in the right damn room.

Seriously, implementing an honest to goodness VoIP in client with all of the features you planned? I've waited a decade for a game like this, what's another month?

I used WoW because its the biggest mulitplayer game out there. A game where grandma's and grandpa's play. Where all classes of machines can play the game, even low end. AND still, it is a dead system. DDO is different. That's a whole nother animal. Because of its nature and history, its WAY less likely to draw asshattery in its playerbase. In fact, if I were to get on a PUG VOIP, DDO would be the one place I'd feel safest. Followed by ARMA2, because of its more "sim based" crowd.

However, as I'm sure anyone can attest, Giant robots that blow things up appeal to the masses. And those masses have not washed sir. They have NOT. I don't see the benefit over TS3, and most organized teams will be using that. Its my bet that it will occassionally rarely be used, until that person finds a unit. Then they will join that units comms. I might be wrong.

[HeIIequin]

Throw me in with the "Add in VOIP later" camp. Is it a bit of a letdown? Sure, since I only know 2 people who will be playing this game, and I have yet to try and find a group to play MWO with, meaning I will be in a LOT of pugs to start off with. I hate typing. I especially hate typing when I'm using a hotas joystick, and I have to move my keyboard way off to the side to fit the joystick on my desk.

That said, a keybound communication system is fine by me. I can easily profile in a series of commands onto my joystick and I'm good to go. I just hope I don't have to memorize or program too many commands. I do not want to have to learn a command sheet as long as Arma 2's.

[pesco]

This post is an idea regarding the question of how could (if it were to) in-game voice be realized in such a way as to largely avoid the "screaming 12-year-old" problem but still give the tight-knit small group a way to use it with well-behaved "pubbies".

A thought: If I understand correctly, MWO matches are set up in a pre-game lobby and players do not randomly join/leave during the match. What would happen if lone wolves had to use the lobby to "request" comms from the lance? For example, each player would have their known "buddies" already cleared for comms, i.e. whitelisted. So your casual but tight-knit group would be able to voice-chat happily without doing anything. However, when their lance gets filled with a lone wolf from the Internet, he is muted for them by default. In the match lobby, there is a button he can use to "request comms". Everyone would see the request and click "OK". This is a temporary authorization which disappears at the end of the match. Lone Wolf gets a display showing him when he has been OK'ed. Once some quorum of players (say 50%) have done so, he would be unmuted for all and can say "hi". If he turns out a screaming weirdo, people can simply remute him. Below the quorum he reverts to muted by default.

Note the use of "lance" above. I'm assuming the lobby will allow you to partition players into lances (4 mechs a lance, 3 lances a company). Communication would be most important within the lance.

Could the above go a long way to avoid the problem of annoying people and maybe, by making the request a visible action, even encourage random players to use it?

Edited by pesco, 05 April 2012 - 11:23 AM.

[Nik Van Rhijn]

I didn't use the keyboard much, if at all in previous MW games and don't like typing chat while trying to stay alive. This is coming more and more down to me decuding that unless I can get in a decent merc corps thats got players from all over the world, who speak English, which will fit in with the irregular hours I can play it's just going to be too much hassle. If I'm a pubber, with no easy means of communication. I'm just going to end up playing on my own in a match of 23 other individuals, some of whom are nominally on my side. This was one of the major downsides of MW4 for me as a LW player. I'll probably stick to similar small groups playing outdated games where I know people and can easily join their TS etc.
This is very much going to be a team game and I don't feel like being a LW. This could well be the final straw for me.

[Vexgrave Lars]

Prosperity Park, on 05 April 2012 - 11:03 AM, said:

That's what the devs said.

The disgraceful comm-hopping people you just described can kiss my lower rear torso.

Consider Prosperity, who would willingly disadvantage themselves when reasonable cost effective alternates exist? I love roleplay, but I can't honestly fathom any reason, other than bliss, that anyone would do something like that.

That said, There could be a recon "plug in" that allows their mech transponders to give their positions away (bet it exist already though). May not hear what they're saying but might be able to find them because they're" transmitting, I guess. I know that would be easier to implement.

Edited by Vexgrave Lars, 05 April 2012 - 11:30 AM.

[Felicitatem Parco]

The purpose is roleplay.

Why are you playing a game with gigantic walking tanks? Is it for the realism?

Edited by Prosperity Park, 05 April 2012 - 11:29 AM.

[Nowan123]

pesco, on 05 April 2012 - 11:19 AM, said:

This post is an idea regarding the question of how could (if it were to) in-game voice be realized in such a way as to largely avoid the "screaming 12-year-old" problem but still give the tight-knit small group a way to use it with well-behaved "pubbies".

A thought: If I understand correctly, MWO matches are set up in a pre-game lobby and players do not randomly join/leave during the match. What would happen if lone wolves had to use the lobby to "request" comms from the lance? For example, each player would have their known "buddies" already cleared for comms, i.e. whitelisted. So your casual but tight-knit group would be able to voice-chat happily without doing anything. However, when their lance gets filled with a lone wolf from the Internet, he is muted for them by default. In the match lobby, there is a button he can use to "request comms". Everyone would see the request and click "OK". This is a temporary authorization which disappears at the end of the match. Lone Wolf gets a display showing him when he has been OK'ed. Once some quorum of players (say 50%) have done so, he would be unmuted for all and can say "hi". If he turns out a screaming weirdo, people can simply remute him. Below the quorum he reverts to muted by default.

Note the use of "lance" above. I'm assuming the lobby will allow you to partition players into lances (4 mechs a lance, 3 lances a company). Communication would be most important within the lance.

Could the above go a long way to avoid the problem of annoying people and maybe, by making the request a visible action, even encourage random players to use it?

This guy got it right.
More ideas in this direction!

[Silent]

I can see adding a general VoIP system to the game so lone wolves and other people that don't have a dedicated group can still communicate effectively. I just don't see the point in making it a robust system where you have scramblers and eavesdropping and all that, because you're not going to have everyone using the in-game voice and it'd be a waste of resources.

If people want eavesdropping and scrambling maybe build it into the contextual command/order menus? If someone has equipment that lets them scramble communications then when the other team tries to give out a command/order through the menu it appears scrambled. Similarly if they have equipment that lets them eavesdrop on communications, the other teams commands/orders can be read.

[Peiper]

Lyon, on 05 April 2012 - 09:27 AM, said:

Sorta speaking for the already-organized crowd (House Steiner has its own TS3 server ), I do not care if MWO has VOIP. My own personal opinion is simple: the more code that Piranha has to shoehorn into this game, the longer it will take to release the game. I love the K.I.S.S. rule, because it applies everywhere, but especially here.

Make a good game. Make it with as little kludge-code as possible. We'll figure out the rest, and once it's released and obviously works well, THEN consider putting VOIP in.

/2 cents

What he said.

[Orzorn]

This is a major mistake.

Take a look at the most recent heavily team based game with matches: Dota 2.

Guess what, it has VOIP.

And guess what?

EVERYBODY USES IT. If you don't have a team talking, you know something is probably wrong. Almost everybody uses it and it helps to really increase teamwork and team solidarity. I don't have to type while I get destroyed by a gank that just came in, I can press one button and say something.

3rd party VOIP programs are dandy and all, but who is going to pay for the server? How, if at all, are we going to get the pubs on it? We probably wont. Not everyone has the big 3 installed (Teamspeak, Ventrillo, Mumble).

This just really busts my balls, it really does. It isn't just an inconvenience, though. It really hurts team strength to not be able to easily and quickly communicate with people. And don't give me that "barking orders" excuse. Any good built in VOIP includes mute functions.

[malik the mad]

Both EVE Online and WoW (World of Warcraft) have built in Voice; which was technically inferior to Vent. Useless for pubs due to poor quality/volume issues. Used Vent for Guild/Corp.

Played Call of Duty, frequently the players were technically inferior to humans (Racist rants, swearing, lots of immature crap), and it was rarely used to relay relevant game information. Will not play those games, because of this and other reasons.

Tribes does not have built in voice. It uses a system where a couple of keystrokes like 'vsrg' which will cause an audio indicating that I will repair the generator. It was created when dialup was the norm, and can be fairly efficient, though it is currently lacking some commands which would be appropriate to the current incarnation of tribes.

Tribes is a fast pace game, and unfortunately this means trying to coordinate flag runs and other actions is impossible without actual voice. No-one will do the typing necessary, and there is a lot of text spam besides that. So people who group up outside of the game and collude using voice are extremely effective.

Now the unfortunate aspect of Tribes currently, the amount of voice command taunts spamming is easy to do, cuts down the amount of friendly voice commands paid attention to (they only have a few voices based on armour size i believe). I believe the constant derision, and the ability to constantly deride leads to the follow-up of constant taunting through normal typing which spams the text channel to the point of making it annoying to look at, and useless for relaying information. (For some reason the Euro servers are lot less acidic).

I hope if MWO were to include a Voice command system, it would be for intra-team only.

[Morashtak]

Now which of those third party options listed are the least overhead as well as best audio quality while playing MW:O?

Another box to check off during public beta.

[LaorDeLove]

Paul Inouye, on 05 April 2012 - 09:21 AM, said:

FIIIINNNNEEEEE!!!

Light the torches... grab the pitchforks!

I agree with Paul. It would be good practice for crowd control in a fire starter. Besides they probably has there reasons. If I had to guess why, I would say it probably is cheaper to not have an extra server running VOIP even if it is virtual. They would have to have increased bandwidth, electricity, cooling, licensing fees for the server. Besides playing Halo Reach and hearing every Tom, Dick and Harry swear in my ear is kind of annoying. I am sure they will think of something to help people communicate efficiently with each other. Maybe the lance commander will be able to send directions to the pubbie Merc.