15 replies to this topic

[Ziogualty]

I'm reading a lot about the endless question pug vs premades.
The most suggested option is: find groups to play with.

I think that (with the actual build of the beta) this point is a little messy.

MWO is not that kind of game that have quests, dungeons or istances for long run mission with bosses and such.

ATM it has no planet to conquer or clans ingame (yet).

The only gameplay is 8vs8 instant battle mode.

More, the trial mechs (as they are plannes by the devs) have a big glowing neon sign with "let's just go and play!" on them.

So everything about gameplay should suggest that it should be "random players friendly".


On the other side, MWO has deep tactical warfare, so to join a premade group could help getting better result (most pf the times).

A lot of founders and BT fans joined the game a long ago, spend some money on it, and they plan to make clans ever before the game allow them to do so.

My concern is that actual gamplay is more like a "training ground" for clans or hardcore fan gamers, leaving no room to a real "occasional" gamer.

No cap on team tonnage, no cap on experienced players vs newbies.

It's hard for an occasional gamer to join a grup of veterans just to make some funny games, first because veterans make thing like pros, and a newbie could feel unconfortable compared to those high experienced players.

More, you feel that just to make a couple of matches it should not lead you to find a group of players that fits you well enough.
You don't wanna rule the galaxy, just wanna have some fun.

Actually, i think the clan wars (or house wars) should be introduced as soon as possible to draw a line between hardcore gamers and occasional ones.

Like it happened in WoT, where big pro clans enjoy the tournaments, clan wars and company battles, while occasional will find room and fun suited for them in random games.

I just hope MWO will hang though untill the arrival of house wars, because that could really chnage the fate of the game for good in my opinion.

What do you think about it?

Edited by Attank, 31 October 2012 - 06:57 AM.

[Shamoo]

My two cents is that far too many come into MWO expecting a FPS game. Mechwarrior is Big stompy machines of death, but none are invincible. Far too many run right up cockpit to cockpit of a opposing MECH in a fight.

The same MECH driven by a new pilot and a veteran player yield highly different results.

1) Heat management is crucial in a fight (can't count how many pilots I kill cause they Overheat in a fight alpha striking every shot).

2) Shot placement is crucial New players rarely think about Head shots, backshots, legging, or weapon crippling.

3) Terrain and placement of your MECH in a fight matters alot (I.E. Tactical movement)

4) Weapons have optimal ranges (See first paragraph)

5) 2 or more v.s. 1 Mech will always win (In a PUG match pick someone and be their wing man, even if they don't know it will matter!)

6) This isn't an XBOX FPS you will never be able to run through a team and kill em all in one shot (You will always die) stick with your team or at least 1 other MECH in a fight!

Edited by Shamoo, 31 October 2012 - 07:14 AM.

[BFalcon]

Shamoo, on 31 October 2012 - 07:14 AM, said:

6) This isn't an XBOX FPS you will never be able to run through a team and kill em all in one shot (You will always die) stick with your team or at least 1 other MECH in a fight!

Did just this in a Hunchie vs an LRM-heavy unit last night - actually survived the battle too - I just caused so much mayhem that my teammates were able to close in and finish them off. Only got the one kill, but it's amazing how an AC/20 in their LRM lines will distract them.

[Enigmos]

Good groups are built one player at a time.

[Shamoo]

BFalcon, on 31 October 2012 - 07:19 AM, said:

Did just this in a Hunchie vs an LRM-heavy unit last night - actually survived the battle too - I just caused so much mayhem that my teammates were able to close in and finish them off. Only got the one kill, but it's amazing how an AC/20 in their LRM lines will distract them.

Nice, But you have to admit that case is the exception to the rule and it takes experience to be able to live through a stunt like that.

[Redshift2k5]

OP, matchmaking changes are comming next week. Stay tuned to see how the phase 1 affects the meta-game! Phase 1 will have a cap of 4 premade players per team, joined with 4 pugs.

Then Nov 20th is Phase 2, which will be a whole new metagame as Phase 2 implements seperate 8-man team queues.

[Shamoo]

Redshift2k5, on 31 October 2012 - 07:29 AM, said:

OP, matchmaking changes are comming next week. Stay tuned to see how the phase 1 affects the meta-game! Phase 1 will have a cap of 4 premade players per team, joined with 4 pugs.

Then Nov 20th is Phase 2, which will be a whole new metagame as Phase 2 implements seperate 8-man team queues.

This will be interesting to see in effect. I still think their will be many cries of "Premades need to be nerfed" even though the limit will be 4 players. I have seen personally that 4 players who know each other habits and MECH's and play together often can turn the tide of any match.

But time will tell if the screams of "PUG stomping" die out with phase 1 or not.

[Balsover]

Shamoo, on 31 October 2012 - 07:33 AM, said:

This will be interesting to see in effect. I still think their will be many cries of "Premades need to be nerfed" even though the limit will be 4 players. I have seen personally that 4 players who know each other habits and MECH's and play together often can turn the tide of any match.

But time will tell if the screams of "PUG stomping" die out with phase 1 or not.

For sure, a 4 man group is still devastating on an 8 man team.

[Zakie Chan]

The reason everyone says to join a TS group:

- Great place to get advice from more knowledgeable players

- Easiest way to coordinate group tactics



As mentioned this game is not a twitch, low health shooter. You must play as a team to succede. All it takes is two players to not follow the group and its almost impossible to come out victorious. TS is the fastest and easiest ways to get all the cod leets under control and form them into an asset rather than a liability.

[Darwins Dog]

PGI is well aware of this and is working on the issue. They have already announced their three phase plan that will eventually have a rating system in place to match players based on skill level.

In the mean time, there is a steep learning curve, but you can still play as a solo player. Most of my games are not in groups, but I still do alright. I've found that the key is a little initial communication.

When the match is waiting for players and counting down, just come up with a simple plan like "lets wait for them in d4/d5", or "advance in a group along the 3 line". Once the fighting starts try to coordinate your fire, maybe call out "shoot C" or something like that. That's the majority of what goes on in a premade group. Granted, the voice comms make it a little easier, but you can work around it.

Remember that when you read all of these threads, that no one actually knows if they are against a premade, or just a random group that's working together, and following one person's lead.

[Shamoo]

Darwins Dog, on 31 October 2012 - 07:41 AM, said:

PGI is well aware of this and is working on the issue. They have already announced their three phase plan that will eventually have a rating system in place to match players based on skill level.

In the mean time, there is a steep learning curve, but you can still play as a solo player. Most of my games are not in groups, but I still do alright. I've found that the key is a little initial communication.

When the match is waiting for players and counting down, just come up with a simple plan like "lets wait for them in d4/d5", or "advance in a group along the 3 line". Once the fighting starts try to coordinate your fire, maybe call out "shoot C" or something like that. That's the majority of what goes on in a premade group. Granted, the voice comms make it a little easier, but you can work around it.

Remember that when you read all of these threads, that no one actually knows if they are against a premade, or just a random group that's working together, and following one person's lead.

I often in a PUG match will take command and start laying out progressive WP's and communicate instructions, 95% of the time when I do this the match is a win. As you say communication goes a long way towards victory!.

[BFalcon]

Shamoo, on 31 October 2012 - 07:25 AM, said:

Nice, But you have to admit that case is the exception to the rule and it takes experience to be able to live through a stunt like that.

Damned right!! I was the most surprised that I managed to survive it! Had to use the terrain a LOT to live through it. If I'd been any slower, it'd just be a pair of Hunchie legs out there about 1 mins after I tried it.

[Ziogualty]

Zakie Chan, on 31 October 2012 - 07:41 AM, said:

The reason everyone says to join a TS group:

- Great place to get advice from more knowledgeable players

- Easiest way to coordinate group tactics



As mentioned this game is not a twitch, low health shooter. You must play as a team to succede. All it takes is two players to not follow the group and its almost impossible to come out victorious. TS is the fastest and easiest ways to get all the cod leets under control and form them into an asset rather than a liability.

I get it.
I join this game quite a long ago, and i have only pc (no x-box, just to clarify it).

My concern is what actually happened in some other "team rewarding" games, like ArmA.

Newcomers just need time to put their hands on a mech and understand how they work.
And they should have the right to "do things wrong" just to learn the basis (as someone else stated: weapons range, heat management and so on).

If you join a premade, the first task for a newcomer is "follow orders", like go there, fire at that target and so on.
You are so deep in trying not to make mistakes, that you don't really "try" stuff.

In my (limited) experience, the best way for a newcomer to step into a premade is a LRM boat: you stay covered (as newbie you don't know the maps), waiting for target, and check if they are within 1000 meters once the team-leader calls for it.

You did your job then, but you "learn" nothing, just to not let down your teammates.

And indeed this way you get a lot: wins, exp, credits.
So you just "replay" this, without daring to try different roles like scouts, close range assaults and so on.
Running the risk to get "boring, cautios attitude".
Premades does not like suicide scouts, or careless assaults, but on the other hand, it's the best way to learn stuff.

Anyway, getting a mic, enjoy your team, find a place in the group, and play, is not really "occasional". I was wondering what kind of fun or satisfaction you can get if you have just 15 mins and want to make a fast paced round.
I know it's not very "mechwarrior", but free to play games are made of this: to "grab" the occasional player even with few battles.

Probably you underestimate your love, knowledge and dedication to Battletech, but i can assure you that it's not easy to "become" a Mechwarrior actually, while actual gameplay could be already "more than sweet" for veterans.

Edited by Attank, 31 October 2012 - 08:34 AM.

[Faithsfall]

BFalcon, on 31 October 2012 - 07:19 AM, said:

Did just this in a Hunchie vs an LRM-heavy unit last night - actually survived the battle too - I just caused so much mayhem that my teammates were able to close in and finish them off. Only got the one kill, but it's amazing how an AC/20 in their LRM lines will distract them.

Manged to do something similar had my cicada in amoungst 2 awesome on frozen city and had them so turned around when an enemy cat came to help he was fired apon by his own teammates, one of the funniest games i have played in a while

[Shamoo]

Attank, on 31 October 2012 - 08:28 AM, said:

Anyway, getting a mic, enjoy your team, find a place in the group, and play, is not really "occasional". I was wondering what kind of fun or satisfaction you can get if you have just 15 mins and want to make a fast paced round.
I know it's not very "mechwarrior", but free to play games are made of this: to "grab" the occasional player even with few battles.

It depends on your personality, but the truth of the matter is that in order to have fun you must master a few items: Range, Heat Management, Shot placement, Mech placement, Co-operation, tactical awareness.

Your absolutely right that a casual gamer dropping in with a trial MECH expecting to have a great match and get easy kills probably won't happen. It has been suggested many times that new players need a Test / Training area in which they can learn these things in a "in cockpit" experience against a controlled environment.

Unfortunately at this time a training ground does not exist, this is open beta and the development effort has been on netcode, weapons balance, Client stability, and a host of other items that are more important to the game.

Stay tuned we may have the training ground before you know it, in the meantime there are plenty of web resources which give background for learning the premise this game is based on and the guidelines of weapons and usage. In regards to learning a map well that just takes time.

Edited by Shamoo, 31 October 2012 - 08:50 AM.

[Tasorin]

Mechwarrior Online isn't an easy mode twitch-FPS and that causes the casuals a lot of A$$ chapping.

I don't disagree that this game isn't for the casual 10-20 matches a week player. I told most of the Legacy Clan I belong too to pack a lunch and put on there big boy pants because this game wasn't for the feint of heart or the casual players. MWO has a steep learning curve that is exasperated by a C-Bill sync to climb out of the trial meks into your fist custom mek. Those two factors when combined with Vet-Mades equate to a metric $hyt Ton of QQ by players who want a Solo twitch FPS MWO.