60 replies to this topic

[Felicitatem Parco]

AMS and cover... they do wonders.

A couple days ago, I died to LRMs in a match. It was the first time I died to LRMs in 5 weeks.

Edited by Prosperity Park, 31 October 2012 - 11:56 AM.

[Bilbo]

Crazy Eight, on 31 October 2012 - 11:46 AM, said:

I never thought of that. It seemed to me that the missiles would Arc over the hills. ALSO Love the "death's hand brigade" quote.

The cover is from sight and therefore lock. The hills will block some of the missiles if you are sighted though.

Also, thanks, the sig is standard DHB, the quote is my own.

[aphidgod]

I guess the hundreds upon hundreds of complaints throughout beta about LRMs being overpowered went unheard - as did most of the testers' complaints from Beta I'm afraid. Welcome to LRMWarrior Online.

The best part is another bug they've left in the game which causes the whole screen to go black thanks to all of the bright missile exhausts, so once you take LRM spam you can't even figure out where cover is or whether you're headed towards it. And then there's the insane cockpit shake, and the fact that missiles can take a 90-degree turn mid-flight and hit you even though you're behind a skyscraper... AMS is good against 1 boater but if you've got 2+ on you it just adds to the noise while you die.

It's not fun.

[Telthalion]

aphidgod, on 31 October 2012 - 12:17 PM, said:

I guess the hundreds upon hundreds of complaints throughout beta about LRMs being overpowered went unheard - as did most of the testers' complaints from Beta I'm afraid. Welcome to LRMWarrior Online.

The best part is another bug they've left in the game which causes the whole screen to go black thanks to all of the bright missile exhausts, so once you take LRM spam you can't even figure out where cover is or whether you're headed towards it. And then there's the insane cockpit shake, and the fact that missiles can take a 90-degree turn mid-flight and hit you even though you're behind a skyscraper... AMS is good against 1 boater but if you've got 2+ on you it just adds to the noise while you die.

It's not fun.

LRMs can still use a bit of tuning, but they're not as ridiculously overpowered as everyone screams they are if you use the tactics mentioned earlier in the thread.

In the roughly one month I've been playing (accounting for periods of inactivity) I've only been killed by focused LRM fire once - because I was caught up in a firefight a long way from cover and didn't know they were coming until they started to rain down, and didn't have an AMS on me.

In my opinion, they should only need some small tweaks - either drop the damage slightly (somewhere from 0.25 to 0.5 reduction), or increase the spread when fired indirectly without a TAG/NARC.

They do have some glaring issues that need to be dealt with though, such as the exposure compensation (not specific to LRMs, but they are one of the worst offenders) and amazing aerial acrobatics when you reacquire a lock mid-flight. The latter issue is a larger concern because it can be used to completely negate your target's cover or even hit him in the back, as long as you don't lose your ability to gain a lock.

Edited by Telthalion, 31 October 2012 - 12:43 PM.

[aphidgod]

Sure, it's all in the tuning... they need to be a viable weapon. But for a while in beta they'd tuned them down to the point that interesting battles actually occurred, and now we're back to every 3rd match being a group of 5 LRM boaters and a couple scouts.

I just lost a match to a team of 6 boaters and 2 scouts. I was in an Atlas, with AMS, behind cover, and still got dropped in less than 12 seconds in a 4-on-1 LRM-fest. It's a little much. Maybe with collision re-enabled to make the scouts' job harder that will drop off some, but right now that's the name of the game.

[Psykosis]

Quote

I just lost a match to a team of 6 boaters and 2 scouts. I was in an Atlas, with AMS, behind cover, and still got dropped in less than 12 seconds in a 4-on-1 LRM-fest. It's a little much. Maybe with collision re-enabled to make the scouts' job harder that will drop off some, but right now that's the name of the game.

your problem was that you were trying to fight 8 people coordinating fire vs. you in your rambatlas™. I venture you would've died just as fast and probably faster to a group of 2 scouts and 4 trial mechs.

[Crazy Eight]

What if they added Flares into the game? Launch before missiles hit you to Divert them away?

Or more maps with cover at least....

Edited by Crazy Eight, 31 October 2012 - 01:21 PM.

[aphidgod]

I wasn't trying to fight anything, I was trying to hide in cover. Should've worked, too, it was a high, sheer cliff... but those LRMs have some pretty excellent guidance thrusters, I guess.

[Crazy Eight]

It is my belief that a weapon of any kind that is both convenient AND powerful will be abused Viciously by the players. Typically a weapon should be one or the other, the LRMs are so far Both. and thus you get the missile spam.

[Omar Thirds]

The main problem with AMS is that it's not fun. You aren't doing anything, it does everything for you. I'd rather shoot the missiles out of the air with flack, anything to feel like I'm taking an active role in making the missiles not kill me. I also agree that the cockpit shake and blur makes it dumb. But I think it's just like artillery in world of tanks-getting killed by indirect fire isn't fun like getting killed in the face by an atlas is. You never have a chance to strike back, no way to dignify yourself in defeat with one last futile blow. Just an impersonal rain of missiles and the knowledge that all the person shooting them is doing is waiting for the missiles to reload, then clicking again.

[Crazy Eight]

Omar Thirds, on 31 October 2012 - 03:48 PM, said:

The main problem with AMS is that it's not fun. You aren't doing anything, it does everything for you. I'd rather shoot the missiles out of the air with flack, anything to feel like I'm taking an active role in making the missiles not kill me. I also agree that the cockpit shake and blur makes it dumb. But I think it's just like artillery in world of tanks-getting killed by indirect fire isn't fun like getting killed in the face by an atlas is. You never have a chance to strike back, no way to dignify yourself in defeat with one last futile blow. Just an impersonal rain of missiles and the knowledge that all the person shooting them is doing is waiting for the missiles to reload, then clicking again.

True but Unlike WOT where I have no idea where the artillery is coming from, Im Mechwarrior Online you can fallow it back to the source. The problem in my opinion isn't that I got killed from long range, Its that I got killed by 3 or 4 people firing missiles non-stop from different angles. Making it to where I cant move or fight back against anyone on the battle field with out getting riddled by missiles.

some of the ways I can think to fix this would be

A: Make LRMs have a shorter range. So players with LRMs have to get closer into the battlefield thus increasing the risk.

B: Make maps with more Cover. so missiles can't reach players so easily.

C: Make Larger maps so players have more room to maneuver and flank one another more easily. and thus missile spammers would have to watch there surroundings more.

[Omar Thirds]

How about fix the draw distance so you can kill them right back with direct fire.

[Solis Obscuri]

hessian, on 31 October 2012 - 11:50 AM, said:

The problem as stands currently is mostly that it is way to easy to get a lock for LRMs. They need to change them so you cannot lock onto other peoples targeting systems and instead require narc beacons or tags for indirect fire. LRMs are just a mindless spam weapon at the moment and are excessively effective in mass because of it

hessian, on 31 October 2012 - 11:50 AM, said:

SRMs also suffer from some of the same problems when used in large numbers. Huge amount of damage that is practically unavoidable and requires absolutely no skill to use effectively.

You don't even play the game, do you?.

[hanitora]

Quote

Does this really work after they have a lock? Or even when you see the a volley already heading in your direction? Breaking LOS does seem to work but does the radar lock drop as soon as you power down your mech? I've often thought the lock lingers a second or two even after powering down.

The way it works is the missiles become dumbfire when lock is lost on you. So if you're being locked by a scout and you go behind a house causing the scout to lose lock on you - you'll disappear as a targetable entity for the enemy - safe from the missile volleys sent after you. They will harmlessly hit the ground where you were last reported by the scout. It's relatively easy to lose lock, it only persists about 2 seconds after losing LoS. Caustic valley is all about doing that. Get locked? Run over the edge of the middle crater to LoS (or kill) the scout before the missiles hit. If you lose LoS even for a short time, all the volleys sent during you being lit up will be useless.

[Sarevos]

Blackfire1, on 31 October 2012 - 11:32 AM, said:

There are:

-Soft counters-
* AMS
* Piloting/Positioning
* Torso mitigation
* Light Cover
* Speed

-Hard Counters-
* Getting closer then 200m.
* ECM (THIS IS THE BIG ONE)
* Proper cover for incoming fire.

Possible Later Updates
*PPC discharge forcing loss of lock

Just wait. You'll be happy with ECM.

Hard counter number 1 is my favorite by far on the perched or hidden lrm boats. Though, funny story, tried that hard counter on the source of metal rain no one had LoS on. Came up round the corner and Atlas AC20 to the face (I was in a Boom Box Cat 6-Srm6s) we killed each other he got me on the second ac20 round i got him with the first shot though to be fair i think he had an ammo explosion while i had a canopy collapse....

Solis Obscuri, on 31 October 2012 - 04:28 PM, said:

You don't even play the game, do you?.

I'm hoping he meant Ssrms Srms take alot of timing and footwork tyvm

[Aversin]

One thing that might help would be a lock on warning of some kind.... right now, I don't think there are any indicators that you've been locked with missiles or what direction they're coming from, which, if you're in the middle of a firefight, you often can't stop and look so you know where to take cover.

[Kiiyor]

Before some of the LRM changes made in closed beta, they were utterly overpowered. As it stands now, they're easier to deal with, but are still a stupendous pain if the opposing team has enough of them.

You can deal with them if you co-ordinate and try to stay in cover, or rush them with lights, but that requires... coordination, which NO PUG ON THE PLANET has.

AMS bubbles can also be surprisingly effective, but everyone has to have one and you need to bunch up, which again requires coordination.

[Solis Obscuri]

Sarevos, on 31 October 2012 - 04:45 PM, said:

I'm hoping he meant Ssrms Srms take alot of timing and footwork tyvm

Over the last two weeks these forums have eroded what little hope I had for human nature.

[Sarevos]

Aversin, on 31 October 2012 - 04:48 PM, said:

One thing that might help would be a lock on warning of some kind.... right now, I don't think there are any indicators that you've been locked with missiles or what direction they're coming from, which, if you're in the middle of a firefight, you often can't stop and look so you know where to take cover.

you can tell... if you look in the general direction of the enemy base and are not actively behind something those white lights go up like the fourth of july that should be your first indication that somethings amiss

[Sarevos]

Solis Obscuri, on 31 October 2012 - 04:54 PM, said:

Over the last two weeks these forums have eroded what little hope I had for human nature.

Rum helps