84 replies to this topic

[Moogles]

The game is basically done for and busted.

No longer will we have a skill based, tactical shooter. You won't even need to think with 20 heat sinks defaulted in your engine. People are saying "NON-TABLETOP VALUES SOLVE THIS", but they really don't. I've been in the beta for over four months now, and I can safely say that this change will effectively negate heat management, as well as void Single Heat Sinks entirely. There will be literally no reason not to upgrade; which is really sad in a game about customization. Engine DHS makes SHS obsolete in every way, removing that aspect of customization. Also, you think LRMs are powerful now? Wait until they have FOUR LRM15s with 10 tons of ammo. You're going to be REALLY upset.

You think it's difficult to fight a Jenner now? A Hunchback 4P with eight medium lasers seems like a hassle now? After this patch is implemented, those designs are going to be ridiculously strong. You can argue what ever point you want. The fact of the matter is the game is getting more and more casual due to these silly changes that are balance-breaking nightmares. Enjoy it, because I think I'm done.

[Rotaugen]

Bye...

[Marzepans]

Can I have your stuff?

[Tombstoner]

Geesh, DHS take up 3 slots. that's a lot of space and places a cap on how many you can hold.
that means no FF or ES weight savings.

you want game breaking weapons think dual ulta-ac20's on my Clan mech. i give your atlas about 4 seconds to live or better yet 6 x streak6 packs in my cat, yea 72 points of guided damage.

DHS is not the boogy man people think it is.

[Tombstoner]

oh btw i can mod my cat now to hold 4 lrm 20's with 10 tones of ammo. 4 lrm 20 makes for a devastating alpha strike but one lrm 20 can be fired very weapon cycle. they do the same damage just takes longer.

[zhajin]

the problem is large energy really need the double heat sinks to compete with the gauss. however it is obviously going to benefit missiles boats and some other builds that do not really need it. which is why it was a bad idea to wait so long to bring them in, since its already too late to balance them properly.

[Timelordwho]

TBH, they should leave the engine sinks as single, but up the standard rate of heat dissipation from 1 sink dissipating 1 heat in 10 sec to 1 heat dissipated per 8-9s. Forcing you to actually put in the DHS in crit slots would be better at making it an actual design decision instead of having people upgrade to DHS for -1h/s without actually putting any in the body of the mech.

[Krivvan]

Honestly, I sort of agree with OP. I'd prefer the in-engine DHS to have an efficacy of 0.15 rather than 0.2.

[RedHairDave]

Moogles, on 31 October 2012 - 04:41 AM, said:

The game is basically done for and busted.

No longer will we have a skill based, tactical shooter. You won't even need to think with 20 heat sinks defaulted in your engine. People are saying "NON-TABLETOP VALUES SOLVE THIS", but they really don't. I've been in the beta for over four months now, and I can safely say that this change will effectively negate heat management, as well as void Single Heat Sinks entirely. There will be literally no reason not to upgrade; which is really sad in a game about customization. Engine DHS makes SHS obsolete in every way, removing that aspect of customization. Also, you think LRMs are powerful now? Wait until they have FOUR LRM15s with 10 tons of ammo. You're going to be REALLY upset.

You think it's difficult to fight a Jenner now? A Hunchback 4P with eight medium lasers seems like a hassle now? After this patch is implemented, those designs are going to be ridiculously strong. You can argue what ever point you want. The fact of the matter is the game is getting more and more casual due to these silly changes that are balance-breaking nightmares. Enjoy it, because I think I'm done.

all this does is make large energy viable again. right now gauss is owning the battlefield.

i dont fear lrm's at all. in a tight group with ams, you are fine. a little boost to lrm boats might help that, right now that cant hurt a good group.

[Calmon]

Tombstoner, on 31 October 2012 - 04:55 AM, said:

Geesh, DHS take up 3 slots. that's a lot of space and places a cap on how many you can hold.
that means no FF or ES weight savings.

you want game breaking weapons think dual ulta-ac20's on my Clan mech. i give your atlas about 4 seconds to live or better yet 6 x streak6 packs in my cat, yea 72 points of guided damage.

DHS is not the boogy man people think it is.

He is talking about engine DHS. You just have the equal of 20 SHS instead of 10 SHS a SHS engine has.

So going DHS is a must for nearly every mech because the 10-bonus in your engine is so incredible good.

Edited by Calmon, 31 October 2012 - 05:27 AM.

[Congzilla]

The sky is falling! The sky is falling!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[DeeSaster]

Doom and gloom...so refreshing...

[Lane]

They are going to cut heat dissapation on all heat sinks, so hold up on singing of double heat sinks ruining the game.

Lane

[Devils Advocate]

Hey guess what it's a game still undergoing development and they'll adjust it as the numbers start reflecting imbalances down the line.

Also shut the hell up. Add your comment to an existing thread stop making your own. You're entitled as all hell and you have no tact. You are the reason this game is going to die, not DHS.

[Sicarus]

I find it interesting that everyone centers their complaints about how powerful Gauss is on its high damage and incredibly low heat values, pointing out that heat dissipation is broken for large energy weapons (like the ERPPC) and they produce way too much heat to be viable against a weapon like the Gauss. But, as soon as PGI institutes the (likely) long-planned (cannon) upgrade to mechs to make large energy weapons viable, everyone starts complaining that it's going to destroy the game.

Color me confused.

[Lane]

Hopefully they will buff gauss damage, or increase the rate of fire. Gauss needs to stay on top.

Lane

[Lootee]

Small and medium laser boats are already viable. WTF do you think a vast number of ppl have been running for the past 3 months ? Because that's all that we can use because ER lasers and PPCs were completely unusable.

You could already stick 6 medium lasers on an AWS and jam 35 single heatsinks on it. DHS does nothing but make the high heat large energy weapons viable for smaller builds.

Know how many DHS a HBK-4P jammed completely full of them can have? 18. That's all it can take with 3 slot DHS filling every nook and cranny plus the engine ones. Like I said before you've already seen that with AWS boating lasers and SHS and they didn't break the game.

Edited by PanchoTortilla, 31 October 2012 - 05:42 AM.

[Tickdoff Tank]

Adding +10 heat dissipation to all engines mounting DHS is not going to break the game. Our ROF will still out pace our heat dissipation, we will just be laying off the trigger for less time to drop heat before firing again.

All mechs will be on equal footing once the change goes live. High heat weapons will be more manageable, low heat builds will find ways to add in higher heat (and higher damage) weapons. Batletech has always been a brutal game, now MWO will be a little more brutal. The player base will adapt.

[Vermaxx]

If DHS don't go into the engine, there is no reason to buy the upgrade.

The upgrade costs 1.5 mil CB, and the larger heatsinks with higher cost almost guarantee your average repair costs will go up. It's the gift that keeps on TAKING.

On my pretty-standard Hunch 4G (It has three medium lasers instead of 2/small OHMYBOATING), I would get an extra five sinks for 1.5 mil and higher repair fees. I can't get more weapons, the thing DHS usually let you do in tabletop, due to hardpoints. So, I'm just getting better heat efficiency. Even then, not by much; certainly not enough to validate the costs.

Yes, TT STYLE DHS DOUBLES my heat dissipation, which is what they were designed to do. 23 sinks on a mech spamming AC20 and heat-boosted medlas still isn't very impressive.

On a lightly equipped mech, you can get in about 10 doubles, maybe a bit more. In other words, a mech with more than 30 sinks is going to be rare. You can do 30+ standard sinks in any mech of size without trying, and on lighter mechs with a bit of hard choosing.

Edited by Vermaxx, 31 October 2012 - 05:51 AM.

[Kraven Kor]

We shall see.

Keep in mind the following:

With SHS, an assault mech can fit 35 to 40 on a mostly energy build (plenty of crit spaces, plenty of tonnage.)

With DHS, an assault mech can fit 18 to 20 on a mostly energy build (only 2 or 3 DHS in each arm or torso due to crit space limits.)

---

All that is really going to change is for mechs that currently have less than 20 SHS will be better, and we'll see more varied builds.

I do, however, think they need to give SHS something as a reason to use instead of DHS. More hit points maybe, or the idea that SHS increase heat cap, while DHS only increase dissipation.

Again: We shall see.

Edited by Kraven Kor, 31 October 2012 - 06:04 AM.