19 replies to this topic

[Mattressi]

I haven't yet bought a mech and I've almost saved enough for a medium, I'm trying to decide between a Hunchback (probably 4SP) or a Centurion (probably AL). I think I should be fine, gameplay-wise with either - my main question is; which one is the most economical? I'd hate to pick one over the other and realise it's the one which costs the most to keep it running (or makes the least money, if that's possible?).

I was thinking of going with the Centurion so that I can zombie with it if I want to increase my gains vs expenses. But perhaps the Hunchback costs less to repair, so there's not a huge difference? I really have no idea how repairing works in here, since it's not really explained at all (and apparently I can't even experiment with it until I've bought a mech...).

Any insight into the cost effectiveness of each of these mechs would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

[Adridos]

Both cost the same to repair (since they are both 50 tonners). and both can do a zombie build.

However, if you wanted to go completely economical, I'd reccomend you take a Hunchback 4P. The thing is, both AL and 4SP have missile hardpoints and buying ammo for those rocket launcher costs a bit, which contradicts your ideology of going with a mech which makes the most money.

[That Guy]

the base costs are pretty much the same. the hunchie is probably a bit more expensive as it has more armor to get blown off, but other than that the rest of the costs come down to ammo. missiles (both LRM and SRM) are fairly expensive.

economically i would say they are about the same. but the hunchie is tougher and may be the better choice. (cents loose those arms fast)

[Mattressi]

Awesome, thanks both of you. I'm not necessarily looking for the absolute most economical - I just want to make sure that I don't massively slow my progress by getting one over the other. But, it seems they're relatively evenly matched for economy. Now I'm not sure how to choose between them, lol.

[Hex Pallett]

I have some (IMO) really good advice but I gotta take off for now. I'll come back later and update. In short, CN9-A is not bad.


UPDATE:

I'M BACK.

Okay back to topic. First you gotta make sure you have like another 4 million CB to buy a proper XL engine for your Cen/Hunch, because while the stock engine's 64.8 km/h is definitely not enough for a brawel mech, there're heavy mechs that has the same speed (or faster), even with stock engine, but more armor. Even if you find the default speed enough, it's always good to have some extra freedom of weight to install more weapons/ammo/heatsinks (the 3x2 extra slots taken on side bodies barely makes any difference in most cases). IMO a mech is not complete without an XL engine.

With that in mind, next is to determine what role your mech's gonna play in a match: do you wanna be a brawler, a long-range support or a full-spectrum? Based on your choice of mechs I think you're probably gonna be a brawler. Good choice, it's always more fun to be 'brawlin Also those mechs have enough firepower even without an XL engine.

There're not much difference between CN9-AL and HBK4-SP. There're two energy hardpoints on each of HBK4-SP's arms, which means you have more freedom on the angle of aiming, and you may be able to put larger energy weapons on them with the benefit of XL engines. However, you also risk losing arms during combat, leaving you with only the missiles of your choice. The laser hardpoint on the head allows nothing larger than a Medium (Pulse) Laser, which could be beneficial in some cases.

The CN9-AL has two energy hardpoints on the right arm and two in the center body. The limited space on center body means you can either have 1 Large Laser or 2 Medium (or smaller) on it, and the angle of aiming is limited to the degree that your upper body can twist. On the other hand, you won't lose those firepower until your death. Also, the empty left arm means you can strip off all armor on that arm (which should be more than 1 ton) to make space for other equipment if you so desire.

Other that that there aren't much to say. It's not particular expensive to buy missile weapons to play around so you don't have to worry too much what to put on those hardpoints. You'll finally work out what loadout you like the most.



HOWEVER,


If you're interested in other options, I can provide some theoretically very interesting setups on other Cent/Hunches, if you're willing to save up for the XL engine.

One is a CN9-A with 2x ML, 3x Streak SRM2, 1x LBX AC10 and a proper XL engine. This would be a near-perfect brawler mech with adorable speed.

Another is an HBK4-G with 2x AC2 and 3x ML (or even MPL, theoretically you should be able to free that much space with an XL engine). The DPS of double AC2 makes it even more dangerous than the damned Gausspult.

Edited by Helmstif, 31 October 2012 - 05:46 PM.

[Mattressi]

Helmstif, on 31 October 2012 - 02:58 PM, said:

I have some (IMO) really good advice but I gotta take off for now. I'll come back later and update. In short, CN9-A is not bad.

Thanks, any advice is appreciated. I won't be able to play again for a day, so I've got a while to work out what I want.

[Orion Leftwind]

Adridos, on 31 October 2012 - 02:37 PM, said:

Both cost the same to repair (since they are both 50 tonners). and both can do a zombie build.

However, if you wanted to go completely economical, I'd reccomend you take a Hunchback 4P. The thing is, both AL and 4SP have missile hardpoints and buying ammo for those rocket launcher costs a bit, which contradicts your ideology of going with a mech which makes the most money.

My only dislike of the HBK-4P is the massive concentration of firepower onto the right side, 7 of 9 hard points are in the RT or RA.  On seeing a 4P laserboat a seasoned mechwarrior is going to destroy the RT first.  Once the RT is gone the 4P has less firepower than even light mechs. Every HBK variant, save the 4SP, has the same problem, weapons concentrated in the RT.The 4P RT can have a max of 48 armor, that not a whole lot for how important the RT is to the damage output of the mech.
Since there are 6 hard points in that torso you are going to have to continually expose it to attack in order to get the lasers on target.A good CN9 pilot can use the LA/LT as a shield and effectively return fire with the RA while minimizing the exposure of the RA, even when licked in a circle strafe with an opponent.  Yes the CN9 arms have less armor than the torso of the HBK.The HBK and the CN9 are both good mechs IMO.  The CN9 fits my play style better and has a more dispersed weapons load out.
One of my favorite CN9-A load outs forgoes arm mounted weapons completely.  Props to Scrapiron Prime who was the first I saw to post it.  it does make use of all 3 missile hard points so it is not the most efficient build for farming c-bills.Here is my take on the design.Chassis Name: Centurion
Model Name: CN9-A
Variant Name: CN9-A No Arm Weapons
Engine: 200 Reg Engine
Internal Type: Std Internals
Armor Type: Std Armor
Heat Sinks: 13 (8) Standard Heat Sinks
Tonnage: 50.00
Speed: 64.8 kph
Armor Total: 320
Alpha Strike Damage: 54.00
Alpha Strike Heat: 19.00
Firepower: 13.37 dps
Heat Efficiency: 27.97%
Effective Range of Loadout: 270m
Head: 18/18
Right Torso: 36/48
Right Rear Torso: 12/48
Center Torso: 50/64
Center Rear Torso: 14/64
Left Torso: 36/48
Left Rear Torso: 12/48
Right Arm: 32/32
Left Arm: 32/32
Right Leg: 39/48
Left Leg: 39/48
Right Arm:
Left Arm:
Right Torso: (CASE not shown for some reason)
    SRM Ammo
    SRM Ammo
    SRM Ammo
    SRM Ammo
Left Torso:
    SRM6
    SRM6
    SRM6
Center Torso:
    Large Laser
Head:
    Heat Sink
Right Leg:
    Heat Sink
    Heat Sink
Left Leg:
    Heat Sink
    Heat Sink

File created using MWO Mechbay

Edited by Orion Leftwind, 31 October 2012 - 06:29 PM.

[Mattressi]

Thanks heaps Orion Leftwind and Helmstif! I've been heavily considering the CN9-A instead of an AL or HBK-4SP, since ballistics seem really fun. I'm thinking now that I will go with the CN9, because I've read that when you get a mech, you need to buy the other variants as you level it in order to level it...better? More? I don't really know, but apparently getting the other variants is important. I don't know if I really want to play with the different HBK variants - I don't like that they have most of their weapons on one big shoulder. So, I'll probably go with the CH9-AL for now, since I don't plan on saving heaps of money before buying my first mech (which I would need to to make the most of the CN9-A, from what you guys have said and from what I've read elsewhere).

Thanks very much to everyone for helping me decide and for the great builds posted

[Vechs]

If you go with any kind of ammunition-consuming build, remember you can choose not to pay for ammo, and you'll launch with 75% of max.

So if you never want to pay for ammo, you can basically put 4 tons of ammo on your mech, and you'll be able to have 3 tons of ammo during the match.

If you launch with 1 ton of SRM ammo, and don't pay, you'll have 75 missiles instead of 100.

[Frenchtoastman]

Mattressi, on 31 October 2012 - 10:11 PM, said:

... I'm thinking now that I will go with the CN9, because I've read that when you get a mech, you need to buy the other variants as you level it in order to level it...better? More? I don't really know, but apparently getting the other variants is important. ...

In the gamescreen, clicking the middle tab on the top, "PILOT LAB" will show 8 blue "basic" upgrades that you can buy using experience points that you'll earn playing your new mech (won't work with trial mechs though).

The experience points you use to buy these upgrades are individual per mech, a.k.a. if you play your centurion-A a ton, but hardly ever play your hunchback-4P, you'll have a ton of experience points to upgrade your centurion-A but very few experience points allowing you to upgrade your HBK-4P. So you need to play that specific version, HBK-4P, to earn experience points for that specific version. The forgiving part of this is if you earned some experience, sold the mech, then bought it back again later..you'll still have the experience waiting for you.

Below those 8 "basic" upgrades, are 4 "ELITE" upgrades. You'll have to have bought all 8 basic upgrades for your mech before you can start buying the elite upgrades. BUT, the final upgrade level "MASTER", can only be bought once you've bought all 8basics and all 4elites on THREE DIFFERENT VARIENTS of a mech. So you'll need to have all ELITE upgrades on your centurion-A, centurion-AL, AND centurion-D in order to gain access to the MASTER upgrade.
Remember, you DON'T have to keep a mech after it's fully upgraded in basic and elite in order for it to count as one of the three. It will still count for you whether you still own it or not.

[Adridos]

Helmstif, on 31 October 2012 - 02:58 PM, said:

Okay back to topic. First you gotta make sure you have like another 4 million CB to buy a proper XL engine for your Cen/Hunch, because while the stock engine's 64.8 km/h is definitely not enough for a brawler mech.

UNless you go against terrible opposition, XL brawlers die in miliseconds.

[Frenchtoastman]

^^^That. Their repair bills are a fortune too.

[Mattressi]

Frenchtoastman, on 31 October 2012 - 11:15 PM, said:

So you'll need to have all ELITE upgrades on your centurion-A, centurion-AL, AND centurion-D in order to gain access to the MASTER upgrade.

Remember, you DON'T have to keep a mech after it's fully upgraded in basic and elite in order for it to count as one of the three. It will still count for you whether you still own it or not.

Thanks for all the information - it's really helpful. The only thing I'm confused about is the Centurion-D. I can't see that in the mechlab store thingy. Is it unreleased, locked until a certain level or is my mechlab bugged?

Adridos, on 31 October 2012 - 11:40 PM, said:

UNless you go against terrible opposition, XL brawlers die in miliseconds.

Ah yes, I just read then that the XL engines make you easier to kill. Also, I want to try to keep the costs small for now and later I can consider more expensive upgrades.
In his defense, probably most of the people playing right now are as terrible as me. There's so many guides, FAQs and training videos around and it's very difficult to just get a solid source of information. I've read through a lot of guides and FAQs and watched the training videos, but I still don't feel like I really know what I'm doing. From what I can tell, I'm meant to shoot the torso (or shoulder?) of a guy who has an XL engine, but I don't even know how to tell if he has one or not. I really hope they release much more in-depth training videos or one giant written newbie guide. It's too time consuming (at least, for me) to read through so many different player-made guides which overlap hugely in most areas, but will each have a few small new pieces of information. Maybe I've missed something though?

[Pekiti]

Basically, if you have an XL engine, you trade risk for reward.

Reward: You gain more tonnage available for weapons/armor/goodies (or more speed for the same space as a standard eninge). You do sacrifice some critical slots, though, while you gain available tonnage.

Risk: If you get any critical engine damage in your Left or Right Torso, you die, immediately. In a standard engine mech, the engine critical spaces are all Center Torso only - the hardest part of the mech to penetrate.

It's a trade off, and your call. I use XL engines on certain builds, and Standard only on others.

To kill an XL equipped opponent, left or right torso hits are the primary targets. This is bad for most Hunchbacks, with their already highly visible main weapon system in the Right Torso that everyone shoots at anyway.

[Methel]

Pekiti, on 01 November 2012 - 01:25 AM, said:

Basically, if you have an XL engine, you trade risk for reward.

Reward: You gain more tonnage available for weapons/armor/goodies (or more speed for the same space as a standard eninge). You do sacrifice some critical slots, though, while you gain available tonnage.

Risk: If you get any critical engine damage in your Left or Right Torso, you die, immediately. In a standard engine mech, the engine critical spaces are all Center Torso only - the hardest part of the mech to penetrate.

It's a trade off, and your call. I use XL engines on certain builds, and Standard only on others.

To kill an XL equipped opponent, left or right torso hits are the primary targets. This is bad for most Hunchbacks, with their already highly visible main weapon system in the Right Torso that everyone shoots at anyway.

The thing about Hunchbacks though, is if they blow off your hump, you're more or less useless anyways. SO a lot of us go for more speed/firepower to keep that hunch safe.

[Pekiti]

Methel, on 01 November 2012 - 05:12 AM, said:

The thing about Hunchbacks though, is if they blow off your hump, you're more or less useless anyways. SO a lot of us go for more speed/firepower to keep that hunch safe.

True, I was just pointing out one example of the risk involved in using an XL engine. As always, it's the pilot's choice if he wants to trade one for the other.

[qki]

I myself lean heavily towards a 2 Medium Laser, Gauss Rifle, 3 Streak SRM2 CN9-A with endo-steel.

No XL engine makes for a great hunter-killer, but if you want to take a 250XL, you can downgrade the gauss to an LB-10X with 3 tons of ammo, and take medium pulse lasers. You'll still need the endo-steel structure though.

[Jonas]

I have started designing ( or redesigning ) my CN9-A today. I switched over to endo steel. replaced the LRM 10 with 3 LRM 5 added C.A.S.E. for both ammo bins which. I also upped the armor by about a half ton. I am planning to switch to an XL engine when I get the C-bills for it. I want to add AMS to but I have to wait till I shave off a few more tons.

In way I am planing on building a baby Highlander ( minus the JJ ) I not sure if I will replace the AC/10 with the LBX or a GR yet

I tested it out in 2 matches it worked okay for the most part It would have gone better if I was a better Keyboard and mouse player but I plan to have a thrust master in a few days. For those that will check No I have no kills yet with it but I hope to change that soon. If anyone has any advice or ideas or want to work with me on further testing and building send me a PM.

Edited by Jonas, 03 November 2012 - 07:25 PM.

[slayerkdm]

Run 3-4MPLAS in any Hunch you pick. Use a standard 260engine. Run DHS's and Endo.

You can run these mechs and never overheat or stop shooting. I used to think my 4SP was the best, but honestly, Im running my G now and doing better. Harder to drive, but if you are a good pilot and enjoy staing locked on, instead of shooting and scooting, then its a good mech.

Super cheap to run, repair and pay for.

The sad part I have found is, that now Im making all this money (yes founders helps) and I run the cheapest mech, and no desire to buy anything else.

I run 3Mplas/3MG's. Doesnt alpha worth a damn, so you have to be quick. Almost need the speed tweek, and the 260. I started it out running the 200, then the 245 (sweet spot for tonnage), now the 260.

You can fight down to the laser in the head since you wont blow from having an XL. Its a back shooting mech, but MG's rattle even premade fighters, so you get a lot of backs to shoot.

[Stormscion]

This is what i use for my main mech atm. It is not pure money maker but still makes ok earning while being fairly effective!

Centurion-AL
RA-1xLL
RT-AMS.1t ammo
CT-STD engine 215, 2xML
LT-2xSRM4.2t ammo
18xHS

all slots used
Speed-69.6
Armor-338/338 Fiberous
Structure-EndoSteel
Firepower-39

Durable with full armor and true shield left arm, a bit faster then regular cent, has ams and solid close to mid range firepower and not all of its firepower is located in the right arm so even if they chop it off you still have 2xsrm4 to bite back.

Edited by Stormscion, 04 November 2012 - 12:36 PM.