A lot of whinging on the forums over the trial 'Mechs and how much they "suck" and turn off new players. Now I have to agree that the new player experience is quite lacking, in fact its pretty much non-existent. However the trial 'Mechs are not the problem, the pilots are.
I have my four founder 'Mechs which are pretty much collecting dust while I play trial 'Mechs. Why? Because trial 'Mechs make money without having to worry about repair costs, which means every match is money in the pocket whether I win or loose. Plus the 'Mechs themselves are fairly well balanced they just aren't as specialized as what you can make in the 'MechLab, and they are missing some of the upgrades that could give them a slight edge. Neither of those factors puts a pilot at a significant disadvantage when driving a trial 'Mech. I know because I pilot trial 'Mechs all the time and I do just fine against all types of 'Mechs.
The thing you have to realize when you look at stock 'Mechs is that they are generally designed to fight at multiple ranges. Most have some sort of long range weapon, LRMs being the most common, then they will have a medium range weapon often a large laser or an AC and they will have some sort of short range weapon, almost always medium lasers. Some 'Mechs are designed for certain roles like the Hunchback which sports all short range weapons, or the Jenner/Commando/Raven which are all light and shouldn't be thrust into heavy combat anyway.
The problem is that new pilots are not understanding the concept of different weapons for different ranges. So you'll have pilots, like the AWS-8T last night, who take their 'Mechs into situations they weren't designed for, like using an AWS-8T to brawl. So one lesson is to learn to use your weapons at the ranges they work best at. If you got LRMs keep the enemy at range and soften them up before you close to use your lasers. If you have SRMs, medium lasers or an AC/20 use terrain to get close and do your absolute best to stay out of the open. Fight using your 'Mechs strengths and avoid situations where its weaknesses will kill you.
The other thing that is getting new players killed is the tendency to run off by themselves, "guard the base" or not focus fire. In MWO the only way to be truly successful is if the team stays together and works as a team. Scouts up just a head lighting targets for the missile boats in the back, assaults drawing fire and dishing it out in front with heavies and mediums watching their backs and helping take down the main target. If you are a new player don't run off by yourself, pick someone and follow them, shoot their target and watch their back.
Guarding the base, worst thing you can do other than charge in alone. If you are sitting back guarding the base you are taking "a gun" out of the fight and leaving your team a 'Mech short. That means their going to take more damage and most likely die faster than the other guys. When that happens the enemy will role down on your lone self and crush you. Instead have a 'Mech with a decent turn of speed be in charge of running back to base and scaring out any scouts trying to cap. This could be a Dragon or a Cicada or one of the scout classes. Remember you don't have to kill the enemy in the base, you just have to get in the square yourself to stop him capping.
Last tip, watch the training video! This game has been in open beta one day with hundreds maybe even thousands of brand new players and yet the new player video only has 305 veiws!?! No wonder the new guys suck! You have to realize this game plays like nothing else out there and you need to be humble and realize that you aren't awesome in this game despite your record in others. Be humble, learn, adapt, play smart and you will succeed.
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Trial 'Mechs, its not them its you!
Started by Kartr, Oct 30 2012 03:04 PM
48 replies to this topic
#2
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- The Seeker
- 515 posts
Member
Posted 30 October 2012 - 03:07 PM
Sorry but trial mech don't compare to custom mechs at all. They can be somewhat good but they can never compete against a skilled opponent with his custom mech.
#3
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- Survivor
- 213 posts
Member
Posted 30 October 2012 - 03:10 PM
Kartr, on 30 October 2012 - 03:04 PM, said:
A lot of whinging on the forums over the trial 'Mechs and how much they "suck" and turn off new players. Now I have to agree that the new player experience is quite lacking, in fact its pretty much non-existent. However the trial 'Mechs are not the problem, the pilots are.
I have my four founder 'Mechs which are pretty much collecting dust while I play trial 'Mechs. Why? Because trial 'Mechs make money without having to worry about repair costs, which means every match is money in the pocket whether I win or loose. Plus the 'Mechs themselves are fairly well balanced they just aren't as specialized as what you can make in the 'MechLab, and they are missing some of the upgrades that could give them a slight edge. Neither of those factors puts a pilot at a significant disadvantage when driving a trial 'Mech. I know because I pilot trial 'Mechs all the time and I do just fine against all types of 'Mechs.
The thing you have to realize when you look at stock 'Mechs is that they are generally designed to fight at multiple ranges. Most have some sort of long range weapon, LRMs being the most common, then they will have a medium range weapon often a large laser or an AC and they will have some sort of short range weapon, almost always medium lasers. Some 'Mechs are designed for certain roles like the Hunchback which sports all short range weapons, or the Jenner/Commando/Raven which are all light and shouldn't be thrust into heavy combat anyway.
The problem is that new pilots are not understanding the concept of different weapons for different ranges. So you'll have pilots, like the AWS-8T last night, who take their 'Mechs into situations they weren't designed for, like using an AWS-8T to brawl. So one lesson is to learn to use your weapons at the ranges they work best at. If you got LRMs keep the enemy at range and soften them up before you close to use your lasers. If you have SRMs, medium lasers or an AC/20 use terrain to get close and do your absolute best to stay out of the open. Fight using your 'Mechs strengths and avoid situations where its weaknesses will kill you.
The other thing that is getting new players killed is the tendency to run off by themselves, "guard the base" or not focus fire. In MWO the only way to be truly successful is if the team stays together and works as a team. Scouts up just a head lighting targets for the missile boats in the back, assaults drawing fire and dishing it out in front with heavies and mediums watching their backs and helping take down the main target. If you are a new player don't run off by yourself, pick someone and follow them, shoot their target and watch their back.
Guarding the base, worst thing you can do other than charge in alone. If you are sitting back guarding the base you are taking "a gun" out of the fight and leaving your team a 'Mech short. That means their going to take more damage and most likely die faster than the other guys. When that happens the enemy will role down on your lone self and crush you. Instead have a 'Mech with a decent turn of speed be in charge of running back to base and scaring out any scouts trying to cap. This could be a Dragon or a Cicada or one of the scout classes. Remember you don't have to kill the enemy in the base, you just have to get in the square yourself to stop him capping.
Last tip, watch the training video! This game has been in open beta one day with hundreds maybe even thousands of brand new players and yet the new player video only has 305 veiws!?! No wonder the new guys suck! You have to realize this game plays like nothing else out there and you need to be humble and realize that you aren't awesome in this game despite your record in others. Be humble, learn, adapt, play smart and you will succeed.
I have my four founder 'Mechs which are pretty much collecting dust while I play trial 'Mechs. Why? Because trial 'Mechs make money without having to worry about repair costs, which means every match is money in the pocket whether I win or loose. Plus the 'Mechs themselves are fairly well balanced they just aren't as specialized as what you can make in the 'MechLab, and they are missing some of the upgrades that could give them a slight edge. Neither of those factors puts a pilot at a significant disadvantage when driving a trial 'Mech. I know because I pilot trial 'Mechs all the time and I do just fine against all types of 'Mechs.
The thing you have to realize when you look at stock 'Mechs is that they are generally designed to fight at multiple ranges. Most have some sort of long range weapon, LRMs being the most common, then they will have a medium range weapon often a large laser or an AC and they will have some sort of short range weapon, almost always medium lasers. Some 'Mechs are designed for certain roles like the Hunchback which sports all short range weapons, or the Jenner/Commando/Raven which are all light and shouldn't be thrust into heavy combat anyway.
The problem is that new pilots are not understanding the concept of different weapons for different ranges. So you'll have pilots, like the AWS-8T last night, who take their 'Mechs into situations they weren't designed for, like using an AWS-8T to brawl. So one lesson is to learn to use your weapons at the ranges they work best at. If you got LRMs keep the enemy at range and soften them up before you close to use your lasers. If you have SRMs, medium lasers or an AC/20 use terrain to get close and do your absolute best to stay out of the open. Fight using your 'Mechs strengths and avoid situations where its weaknesses will kill you.
The other thing that is getting new players killed is the tendency to run off by themselves, "guard the base" or not focus fire. In MWO the only way to be truly successful is if the team stays together and works as a team. Scouts up just a head lighting targets for the missile boats in the back, assaults drawing fire and dishing it out in front with heavies and mediums watching their backs and helping take down the main target. If you are a new player don't run off by yourself, pick someone and follow them, shoot their target and watch their back.
Guarding the base, worst thing you can do other than charge in alone. If you are sitting back guarding the base you are taking "a gun" out of the fight and leaving your team a 'Mech short. That means their going to take more damage and most likely die faster than the other guys. When that happens the enemy will role down on your lone self and crush you. Instead have a 'Mech with a decent turn of speed be in charge of running back to base and scaring out any scouts trying to cap. This could be a Dragon or a Cicada or one of the scout classes. Remember you don't have to kill the enemy in the base, you just have to get in the square yourself to stop him capping.
Last tip, watch the training video! This game has been in open beta one day with hundreds maybe even thousands of brand new players and yet the new player video only has 305 veiws!?! No wonder the new guys suck! You have to realize this game plays like nothing else out there and you need to be humble and realize that you aren't awesome in this game despite your record in others. Be humble, learn, adapt, play smart and you will succeed.
Sorry but some of us have played in CB and know this is a flat out lie. The trial mechs cannot compete with a customized mech.
#4
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- 606 posts
Member
Posted 30 October 2012 - 03:15 PM
I will spare myself the lengthy rebuttal by offering a lone example: a Light Mech with a top speed of 81kph is going nowhere fast. If you've deluded yourself into thinking otherwise, that is completely on you and your gold-vision.
The only person you're fooling is yourself, Kartr.
The only person you're fooling is yourself, Kartr.
#5
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- Overlord
- 25 posts
Member
Posted 30 October 2012 - 03:27 PM
Not to hate on founders, because I don't, but that's a lot of BS to half read. The guy with four customizable 'mechs is using trial 'mechs? Yeah right. I bet you started using them. Only to get CBills to fit your founders 'mechs. You'd understand the frustration if you had to grind out match after match in them just to earn a mech. You know they are terrible awful builds and this is like a troll joke or something. It's gotta be that.
#6
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- Bad Company
- 3,403 posts
Member
Posted 30 October 2012 - 03:29 PM
Kartr, on 30 October 2012 - 03:04 PM, said:
I have my four founder 'Mechs which are pretty much collecting dust while I play trial 'Mechs. Why? Because trial 'Mechs make money without having to worry about repair costs, which means every match is money in the pocket whether I win or loose. Plus the 'Mechs themselves are fairly well balanced they just aren't as specialized as what you can make in the 'MechLab, and they are missing some of the upgrades that could give them a slight edge. Neither of those factors puts a pilot at a significant disadvantage when driving a trial 'Mech. I know because I pilot trial 'Mechs all the time and I do just fine against all types of 'Mechs.
Trial mech earn ZERO xp. Trial mechs earn less (25%?) C-Bills per match. Trial mechs cannot be modified in any way.
Your founders mechs earn XP (but no bonus). Founder mechs earn +25% C-Bills (double that since you are sacrificing 25%+ for Trial). Founder mechs can be modified to suit your individual play style and tactics. Founder mechs must be repaired and reloaded, which can run 0% - 33% of your contract depending on win/loss and damage sustained.
In short, if you have a founders mech but choose to play a trial mech to gain some sort of cash advantage, you will be disappointed. Of course your Founders mech will be locked in match if you are just attempting to suicide drive. So I guess if you intend to exploit the system Trial may be better.
Edited by Agent 0 Fortune, 30 October 2012 - 03:34 PM.
#7
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- 310 posts
Member
Posted 30 October 2012 - 03:32 PM
Honestly, the trial mechs are pretty bad. I've had the most success with the Awesome and the Centurion - pretend you're a fire-support mech and fire off the LRMs early, then close to engage with your lasers. But I strongly suspect any decently outfitted mech of the same class - perhaps even the same type - would wipe the floor with them, all other things being equal.
#8
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- 247 posts
Member
- LocationSeattle, WA
Posted 30 October 2012 - 03:46 PM
It takes experience to become good. The new guys need to be smart enough to stick through it.
#9
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- Ace Of Spades
- 3,111 posts
Member
- LocationThe North
Posted 30 October 2012 - 04:03 PM
Nah, pretty much everyone that has a clue has agreed (since closed beta) that a Customizable mech that can Outrun, Outgun, take more damage, etc, etc, etc over a trial mech, pretty much has the advantage..
After running both, I can say without a doubt the trial mechs "TRY" to be good at everything, but you cannot be all things at all times, if you can find the true strengths of a Mechs capabilities, then customize it (which trials CANNOT do), then you have a FAR more than equal chance of turning a trial Mech into a heap of smoking newb..
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Don't try to sell me on the old "Trial Mechs are just as good as customized mechs routine", nobody with a clue buys that one, and hasn't since this summer, and closed beta... They aren't, the numbers don't match up.. 2+2=4..
2+2 (does not) = popcorn
After running both, I can say without a doubt the trial mechs "TRY" to be good at everything, but you cannot be all things at all times, if you can find the true strengths of a Mechs capabilities, then customize it (which trials CANNOT do), then you have a FAR more than equal chance of turning a trial Mech into a heap of smoking newb..
.
Don't try to sell me on the old "Trial Mechs are just as good as customized mechs routine", nobody with a clue buys that one, and hasn't since this summer, and closed beta... They aren't, the numbers don't match up.. 2+2=4..
2+2 (does not) = popcorn
#10
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- Survivor
- 134 posts
Member
Posted 30 October 2012 - 04:07 PM
Trials are bad. On paper, or rather TT they would work...sort of. But their weapon mix in most cases (not all) are poorly configured with no focus on any role.
In some cases they have too many weapons and not enough HS and most can't be sorted proper within effective weapon groups with ranges and types of weapons being spread out across torso and arm slots. Part of a good build is being able to group your weapons for example two lasers in the arms don't function the same as one in an arm and one in the torso
None of them have AMS which is a must in MWO especially when you're new and clueless and run up over a ridge.
Ammo allocation is slim for most trials.
Armour on some stocks is down right laughable.
Now combine those factors with no documentation on controls or weapon behavior/stats, a vast majority of much more experienced pilots from Closed Beta. The result is four punching bags.
Under armed under armoured and poorly configured for MWO.
In some cases they have too many weapons and not enough HS and most can't be sorted proper within effective weapon groups with ranges and types of weapons being spread out across torso and arm slots. Part of a good build is being able to group your weapons for example two lasers in the arms don't function the same as one in an arm and one in the torso
None of them have AMS which is a must in MWO especially when you're new and clueless and run up over a ridge.
Ammo allocation is slim for most trials.
Armour on some stocks is down right laughable.
Now combine those factors with no documentation on controls or weapon behavior/stats, a vast majority of much more experienced pilots from Closed Beta. The result is four punching bags.
Under armed under armoured and poorly configured for MWO.
#11
Posted 30 October 2012 - 04:10 PM
Frosted, on 30 October 2012 - 03:07 PM, said:
Sorry but trial mech don't compare to custom mechs at all. They can be somewhat good but they can never compete against a skilled opponent with his custom mech.
And a custom mech and poor pilot isn't going to compete with a trial mech and a skilled pilot.
#12
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- 359 posts
Member
- LocationLos Angeles, El Dorado, Crucis March
Posted 30 October 2012 - 04:10 PM
Yeah this OP is complete bunk. Taking a new player that doesn't know anything about anything and forcing them to play with an incredibly heat ineffecient design is just asinine. Sure this game will always have a learning cliff, but taking new players and shoving them off of it is not the right way to go about it.
#13
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- Ace Of Spades
- 3,585 posts
Member
Posted 30 October 2012 - 04:12 PM
Ive done well in trial mechs of course, but to claim that they aren't garbage is just delusional.
The raven goes 80kph and the dragon can't even fire its 2 mediums and ac5 without overheating.
The awesome is ok but very short on ammo.
The raven goes 80kph and the dragon can't even fire its 2 mediums and ac5 without overheating.
The awesome is ok but very short on ammo.
#14
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- 238 posts
Member
Posted 30 October 2012 - 04:12 PM
Ever wondered why your trial awsome gets popped after 2 hits down its broad center torso? It's because it has half armor there, of all places. Also, where do you think they put that ammo that goes all sparkly like fireworks? Then there's the split weapon ranges that ensure it hits like a pinprick at any range. Yeah, not so awsome.
And it's arguably the best among trial mechs, competitive with the 80km Raven...
And it's arguably the best among trial mechs, competitive with the 80km Raven...
Edited by Dagger906, 30 October 2012 - 04:14 PM.
#15
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- 378 posts
Member
- LocationWashington State
Posted 30 October 2012 - 04:17 PM
Frosted, on 30 October 2012 - 03:07 PM, said:
Sorry but trial mech don't compare to custom mechs at all. They can be somewhat good but they can never compete against a skilled opponent with his custom mech.
Why do you suppose that is? (I'm taking the assumption that this premise is true...)
Is it a better mech that makes the player better?
Or is it a player that makes the Mech better?
Or is it a symbisosis of both?
Well, I happen to have an opinion on the matter:
A Trial Mech is what it is - you can't tweak it at all. That simply means you have to adjust your play-style to match the hardware offered; often times, it's not a very good fit, and it takes a while to become proficient enough to get the Trial Mech to work as best as it can.
A customizable mech benefits from repetitions of trial and error: Each match the pilot can re-evaluate their success / failure and find ways to edit their own mech to accomodate for their play style. At the same time, their play style adapts to what the basic chasis demands. So you reach "optimum" faster and the optimum is more flexible.
Back to Trial Mechs, "optimum" is dependant on unchangeable hardware.
#16
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- 832 posts
Member
- LocationBritanny, France
Posted 30 October 2012 - 04:20 PM
they would probably be fairly decent 'mechs if they weren't hovens.
srsly, i think i can cook a pizza on the nose of that trial Dragon.
srsly, i think i can cook a pizza on the nose of that trial Dragon.
#17
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- Knight Errant
- 41 posts
Member
Posted 30 October 2012 - 04:22 PM
I have been playing trial mechs rather than spending my founders mc till some fixes and new mechs are in place, also I currently mostly run in pugs at the moment which is pretty much futile even in my atlas-f and I make more in a trial most times.
As such I can safely say that they're all pretty poor with not enough hs and highly inefficent weapon loadouts, however I have found the best of a bad bunch to be the cent as long as theres some scouts for the lrm's.
Basically combining the trial mechs with all the pugstomping and the realisation of the horrific grind to come if you want a decent mech, gives you have one of the worst new player experiences I have ever seen which is saying somthing since I play EvE from beta.
As such I can safely say that they're all pretty poor with not enough hs and highly inefficent weapon loadouts, however I have found the best of a bad bunch to be the cent as long as theres some scouts for the lrm's.
Basically combining the trial mechs with all the pugstomping and the realisation of the horrific grind to come if you want a decent mech, gives you have one of the worst new player experiences I have ever seen which is saying somthing since I play EvE from beta.
#18
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- 238 posts
Member
Posted 30 October 2012 - 04:25 PM
EtherDragon, on 30 October 2012 - 04:17 PM, said:
Why do you suppose that is? (I'm taking the assumption that this premise is true...)
Is it a better mech that makes the player better?
Or is it a player that makes the Mech better?
Or is it a symbisosis of both?
Well, I happen to have an opinion on the matter:
A Trial Mech is what it is - you can't tweak it at all. That simply means you have to adjust your play-style to match the hardware offered; often times, it's not a very good fit, and it takes a while to become proficient enough to get the Trial Mech to work as best as it can.
A customizable mech benefits from repetitions of trial and error: Each match the pilot can re-evaluate their success / failure and find ways to edit their own mech to accomodate for their play style. At the same time, their play style adapts to what the basic chasis demands. So you reach "optimum" faster and the optimum is more flexible.
Back to Trial Mechs, "optimum" is dependant on unchangeable hardware.
There are certain factory defaults that you will always fix no matter what. Half armor center torso is one of them. Even if you strip armor for glasscannon cata, center torso is the last thing to strip. Then there's the 80km/h Raven for scout. Assault has to have armor center torso, and scout has to be fast, there's no choice in the matter. Trial mechs are not just uncustomized, they're bad, there's no other way to put it.
#19
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- Ace Of Spades
- 5,434 posts
Member
Posted 30 October 2012 - 04:55 PM
Apex Predat0r, on 30 October 2012 - 03:27 PM, said:
Not to hate on founders, because I don't, but that's a lot of BS to half read. The guy with four customizable 'mechs is using trial 'mechs? Yeah right. I bet you started using them. Only to get CBills to fit your founders 'mechs. You'd understand the frustration if you had to grind out match after match in them just to earn a mech. You know they are terrible awful builds and this is like a troll joke or something. It's gotta be that.
When they first nerfed the economy, I ran only trial mechs until I could afford a commando.
I did so with the thought in mind of "I'm a new player, how long will it take to get to my first mech?"
It really wasn't so bad, but it was rough, and it was even a touch slower at the time. Granted, I had my premium bonus, but not the founder mech bonus, and was already accustomed to weapon groups and such.
Again; I think it is just compounded by the lack of any real matchmaker - new players in trial mechs up against experienced players in custom mechs. Premade or not.
#20
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- Philanthropist
- 1,516 posts
Member
Posted 30 October 2012 - 04:57 PM
Ah yeah its totally fun to play an 81 kph raven that damn near melts down if you fire any of its weapons against a 140 kph jenner. It stotally not the mech its your piloting *scoff*
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