32 replies to this topic

[ATao]

CapperDeluxe, on 01 November 2012 - 10:13 AM, said:

What about people who want to have 8 assault versus 8 assault matches? Its rather artificial to limit that when you can just make the matchmaking handle it better.

In WoT this problem is solved via different PRE match queues. Similar system could be implemented here as well. For example you have 1 queue with 800 limit, other with 600, one more with 400 etc. Or there could be just 2 leagues 1 with some balanced limit and 1 without any limits. If MWO will have enough ppl for that that is .

Pando, on 01 November 2012 - 09:50 AM, said:

Limiting it to begin with is a bad idea. Holding a drop group from launching because they are 10 or 20 tons overweight is forcing someone to abandon a 'mech they want to pilot.

The most popular premade setup since closed beta is 2 mechs of each type. You can perfectly get it with 500 tonns limit (2 atlas, 2 catas, 2 hunchies, 2 jenners for example). You can get mechs of all types into the team so there's still choice. Ofc you can't get all heavy or all assault team so this system is not perfect. But you face this problem anyways even without the limit. People will be forced to abandon lighter mechs in favor of heavier ones just to get more firepower if there's no limit at all. With 500 tonns +- limit you still can get mech of ANY type into the team while having reasonable balance and variety of viable team setups.

Edited by Alexander Malthus, 01 November 2012 - 12:07 PM.

[C1nn1K]

Looks like a good idea for me.

[EnErGjAiZeR]

i remember what original mechwarrior always have something like a tonnage system for the ''team'' - u have limit about 100 tonns so u can choose 1 atlas or 3-4 light mechs

[Stripes]

Since with implemention of community warfare Commanders will be playing, well, MechCommander - matchmaking with tonnage limit will be logical choice for premades.

In WoT diversity of tanks in premades achieved, partially, trough extremly time consuming grind neede to unlock high tier tanks - here it is, thank Higher Powers, not a issue - which in turn creates dire need for somekind limit preventing assault fest. Tonnage limit for match - obvious, but i think PGI may have idea about something more interesting. More Clan-like if you will :3

[Alex MSQ]

In addition to Tonnage Limit i suggest Battle Value limit. And get income of mission depending on lower value of your BV. Not tonnage.

Edited by Alex MSQ, 02 November 2012 - 03:02 AM.

[Name115734]

+1 to Alex MSQ

Tonnage limits never worked in Btech TT, it typically led to highly unbalanced games. Battlevalue is a much better system. It would also be very easy to load a pilots stats into the formula and use that on top of Battlevalue to pit appropriate teams against each other.

[Vedm]

No Remorse, on 02 November 2012 - 03:23 AM, said:

+1 to Alex MSQ

Tonnage limits never worked in Btech TT, it typically led to highly unbalanced games. Battlevalue is a much better system. It would also be very easy to load a pilots stats into the formula and use that on top of Battlevalue to pit appropriate teams against each other.

Quite like it, but I see it a bit different. I think that BV is useful when game determine combination of players for both sides in random battle, cause it already tries to equalize weight of the teams in random (well, not always it happens successfully, but that's not the point). In case of corp fights 8v8 there will be no great demand in skill equalizing, much more essential equalizing within certain weight limits. Though it shouldn't be very strict (for ex. floating limit 500-600t). And the closer you get to the lower limit, the more income you get, the more you close to a higher limit, the less c-bill you'll receive for the battle. Also leagues could be great idea. Like "League for 20-55t" and "League for 60-100t mechs" or something.

[Rhalgaln]

Ohh Tonnage limit - thats cool - but wait:
How much fun ist this?

4 commandos vs 1 Atlas ?
8 Commandos vs 2 Atlas ?

It always should be an 8vs8 game. (or 4vs4 or 20vs20 whtatever)
Not Tonnage limit, but category limits as is: some light, medium, heavy and assault mechs vs same setup.

[ATao]

Battle Value system in table top is better than simple tonns of course. But as we all know TT values won't work for MWO. PGI will have to reevaluate every piece of equipment from scratch. If they will make it in future I'll be just as happy as you are but this topic is actual right here right now. Implementing weight limit on PRE-MM queue seems like easy solution which can serve us well untill more complex and balanced system is completed.

[AtomicFrawg]

I think if there is a limit, you will have ungodly que times.

Then everyone will be like

[ATao]

As 8 PRE MM draws near bumping an idea from the void .

As it stands right now we'll see 8v8 matches without any kind of restrictions for mechs. You will be able take a team of 7 d-dc ecm atlases with 1 light scout and your opponent still might be a combination of mediums and heavies. Literally any crazy match-ups are possible. Or so it may seem...

In fact if you are into competitive gaming (and 8v8 PRE is all about that type of gameplay) that means you'll have to choose the most viable mech setups for your team. Of cause this statement is true in any competitive team game. Still when you combine this with "one rule - no rules" MM it pretty much shows us the true colors of MWO mech balance.

Bluntly speaking medium mech class is almost useless from competitive point of view. Both centurion and hunchback are running on same speed levels as heavy mechs but of cause heavies are better armored and carry better\more weapons. And cicada is just an oversized jenner without JJ.

Basically you can divide all mechs into 2 big groups. Line assault mechs and support mechs. 1st are obviously those who go forward, take enemy fire and brawl them. 2nd one provides cover for 1st one so they can better archive their purpose and includes LRMs, scouts and the like. Assault and heavy mechs can easily go to any of those 2 grops being both good LRM\sniping supporters and speed\armor brawlers. Obviously lights are best scouts jenner being the king as it has not only speed and small frame but also JJs.

Now where do we put mediums here? Yes they can brawl but not as good as hvy\assa. Yes they can support but still not as good as heavy\assa. Yes cicada can scout... but it has no JJs to quickly get on hills or to make a quick observation of the battlefield from high jump to determine enemy positions. That brings us to a simple conclusion. Right now medium mechs have no real use in competitive 8v8 battle.


Originally I suggested implementing weight limit for PRE teams so they'll be forced to compromise and think of ways to use battle weight more effectively whicn in turn may lead to using medium mechs too. I do understand that spending some time to run "no limits" ruleset for 8s may have it's uses too. You'll see which mechs\configs are more used and which are underused in more competitive environment and this info can help balance MWO better. Still I believe that PGI will need to upgrade this system to something better to provide us more diversity in PRE team setups. I still can't think of any better way other than weight limit (or some battle value limit system as in TT) or weight class limit (no more than 2 mechs of each class for example) system. I can only hope that this problem is noted but PGI and they are going to solve it. Feel free to share your ideas on it here and make alternative suggestions.

Edited by Alexander Malthus, 30 November 2012 - 09:47 PM.

[Baker74]

UP! UP! UP! WE need to limit the maximum tonnage! And we need training room for every unit!

[Regulos]

+1