23 replies to this topic

[Lefty Lucy]

I can really appreciate where people are coming from when they post "noob advice" on the forums. When you post guides, links to you-tube training videos, info on how to get on TS, or advice, you are definitely helping the portion of the player base that uses the forums. By no means do I want you to stop.

However, when people say "why don't they get on TS3, then they won't get PUGstomped?" or, "why don't they read this guide on the forums then they'd be a better pilot" in support of whatever opinion they happen to hold, then they simply aren't taking into account the *fact* that the large majority of the player base is *never* going to use the forums.

Many players just want to play the game without having to use 3rd party software. Many people avoid forums because of all the silly drama. Many people enjoy the challenge of just figuring things out on their own. These players are still legitimate players, but when you attempt to tell them "why don't you just do X", it is akin to speaking to an empty room. They're gone playing the game.

[Taryys]

True. Things are quite rough for people who are new to the franchise and who "just want to play".

Of course this is BETA and a lot of the things that will help to solve this will be added in the future: tutorials, tooltips, chat lobbies, weapon/equipment info, voice comms for everyone, etc. I am looking forward to that day.

We really need an mechlab encyclopedia/wiki with all of that info in it

[Guide] Playing with Friends, Groups, and Teams

[Dayuhan]

It is not TeamSpeak that makes the game better it is coordination between a team's players. MWO has already built C3 chat support right in to the game (its a checkbox under settings). Albiet the support for C3 is still a work in progress, but since the whole game is still a work in progress that is just another item that needs further development. Many players choose to use their own chat systems - TeamSpeak, Ventrillo, and RaidCall to name a few - rather than the one that comes with MWO, but the C3 chat feature is there for ALL players they just need to take advantage of it.

[Lefty Lucy]

Dayuhan, on 01 November 2012 - 06:31 AM, said:

It is not TeamSpeak that makes the game better it is coordination between a team's players. MWO has already built C3 chat support right in to the game (its a checkbox under settings). Albiet the support for C3 is still a work in progress, but since the whole game is still a work in progress that is just another item that needs further development. Many players choose to use their own chat systems - TeamSpeak, Ventrillo, and RaidCall to name a few - rather than the one that comes with MWO, but the C3 chat feature is there for ALL players they just need to take advantage of it.

You still have to be in a group to use C3, which means you have to know *how* to group, which is not something that the in-game UI really explains even a tiny bit.

[AllGamer]

our team always welcome new totally rookie players

we always invite them during in game to join our team roster, and we even provide training sessions.

this is as friendly as it can get with the broken social in game option before you launch into battle.

if only they added a chat box and a default lounge, then people that are not fond of using TeamSpeak, C3 or other 3rd party VOIP software, newbs could at least still find a better PUG arrangement, and pre-plan before launching into battle

IMO the preferred system would be something like in the old Battle.Net where you had your chat channels and can meet up with people to launch as a PUG team

Edited by AllGamer, 01 November 2012 - 06:40 AM.

[Vlad Ward]

I am torn on this.

I had to spend hours, days even, reading out-of-game manuals and guides (usually written by the community and endorsed by the developers) to really get the hang of X3: Reunion when that launched.

Sure, it was a lot of work. But coming to understand the material and seeing myself improve dramatically because of it was a wonderful feeling. X3 remains one of my favorite games to date.

The trend in modern gaming today isn't necessarily to be "Easy", as a lot of people like to say. Rather, newer games tend to have a high "skill floor". This means that pretty much anyone who picks up the game will be able to perform decently well. Such games can also have a very high "skill ceiling", meaning that someone who completely masters the game will be able to perform significantly better than average, but the assumption is that these players are few and far between.

If MWO suffers for anything, it's that it has a very low skill floor. What this means is that a player with no experience with the game will tend to perform significantly worse than average. This is what tends to bug people, as it's a trend that's long since gone out of style in the gaming world. People are used to being able to hop into a new game as a moderately experienced gamer and do decently well. That just won't happen in MWO.

However, it's important to keep in mind that a low skill floor means a wider gap between the skill floor and the skill ceiling, leading to a much more diverse and interesting demographic of players.

Games with high skill floors and low skill ceilings are awful - generally considered button mashers that anyone with thumbs can master.

Games with low skill floors but similarly low skill ceilings are awful - they tend to be based on luck and random number generators more than player input.

Games with low skill floors and high skill ceilings give the player plenty of room to grow and improve. I think that improvement is far more rewarding in the long run than the ability to walk into a game and instantly be able to kill all but the most elite players.

Edited by Vlad Ward, 01 November 2012 - 06:44 AM.

[Ikarti Danaro]

Please tell me what kind of PC gamer is afraid of 3rd party software in 2012?

[Dayuhan]

Lefty Lucy, on 01 November 2012 - 06:32 AM, said:

You still have to be in a group to use C3, which means you have to know *how* to group, which is not something that the in-game UI really explains even a tiny bit.

I did say it was a work in progress. There are many features of the game that have not been filled out completely, C3 is one of them. The Devs intend to further integrate C3 in to the game but further development of C3 is currently further down in the queue as other in game items take precedence. Since the whole MWO game has a learning curve for new players anyway, learning how C3 (or their chat system of choice) works is just part of that learning process.

As an aside I have found almost all the people I have chatted with extremely helpful in learning how to use both the chat system and in game tactics that work.

Edited by Dayuhan, 01 November 2012 - 06:50 AM.

[Seth]

Taryys, on 01 November 2012 - 06:22 AM, said:

We really need an mechlab encyclopedia/wiki with all of that info in it

I've been working on the MWO-wiki for a year now and the whole point behind it is to provide up to date information on this game. I can understand someone's frustration with trying to compete with someone who uses third party resources, but show me a game where a casual player can be competitive with someone who uses all resources and information available to them.

[Taryys]

Yup, I have seen that and It is great to have it.
Can I add my guide to this?

[Guide] Playing with Friends, Groups, and Teams

Seth, on 01 November 2012 - 06:48 AM, said:

I've been working on the MWO-wiki for a year now and the whole point behind it is to provide up to date information on this game. I can understand someone's frustration with trying to compete with someone who uses third party resources, but show me a game where a casual player can be competitive with someone who uses all resources and information available to them.

...but there needs to be an ingame resource, especially since the devs have all of the data handy.

[Aware]

They aren't expected to but holy hell some of the PUG players could at least make some attempt to communicate. Some are all right but most don't say a thing. MWO is a team based game. If more people understood that working together in a team actually makes you more C-Bills and Exp the whole game would be better.

Edited by Aware, 01 November 2012 - 06:55 AM.

[Matist]

I don't think it's a skill floor issue. It's more of a games should aim for "easy to learn, difficult to master". Using ELO to rank players and put randoms up against similar randoms would improve the new player experience without changing the game core.

Also in the mech lab, simply having popups of data when I mouse over systems would improve the new user experience. Or how about better feedback on why certain weapons and systems can't be mounted?

Or in game tutorials. A mech piloting course that teaches maneuvers. Some of these tutorials could also be used as gateways for unlocking tiers of trial mechs.

[AlexEss]

I think that if thos was a done and complete game then i might have agreed with you.. but i am a grumpy old man and somewhat old-school when it comes to betas... So yes i actually expect people to go that extra mile like getting familiar with the posted guides and learning how to use stuff like TS or at least the C3... I also fully expect that this will change and that more in-game help will be made for new players and less tech savy individuals.

[TLBFestus]

The pie chart from the game Battlefield Heroes, which reflects what the OP was talking about;





It's hard to find any other data about forum usage for games, but I would think that this is representative of most games.

I basically agreed with what he is saying in this post;

http://mwomercs.com/...to-think-about/


It does irk me that a game that is so dependent of good teamwork doesn't have an elegant, automatic VOIP comm for teams like they used in Battlefield 2 (probably the 100th time I've mentioned this in the forums).

[RumRunner151]

http://mwomercs.com/...nd-trial-mechs/
http://mwomercs.com/...raining-grounds

They are working on it. Its improving.

Please beat more dead horses.

Edited by RumRunner151, 01 November 2012 - 07:13 AM.

[wanderer]

Dayuhan, on 01 November 2012 - 06:31 AM, said:

It is not TeamSpeak that makes the game better it is coordination between a team's players. MWO has already built C3 chat support right in to the game (its a checkbox under settings). Albiet the support for C3 is still a work in progress, but since the whole game is still a work in progress that is just another item that needs further development. Many players choose to use their own chat systems - TeamSpeak, Ventrillo, and RaidCall to name a few - rather than the one that comes with MWO, but the C3 chat feature is there for ALL players they just need to take advantage of it.

The advantage they have over C3 is that there is an actual "lobby"- that is, players can hang out in a common space, an LFG channel, or even "Hey, I need advice" sorts of things. Honestly, a bare-bones page or two would do wonders on the website, but I get the feeling that someone in publicity is scared out of their wits at the idea of making a page on the MWO site that does not involve fancy graphics or other "site makeup".

[Aware]

TLBFestus, on 01 November 2012 - 07:11 AM, said:

The pie chart from the game Battlefield Heroes, which reflects what the OP was talking about;





It's hard to find any other data about forum usage for games, but I would think that this is representative of most games.

I basically agreed with what he is saying in this post;

http://mwomercs.com/...to-think-about/


It does irk me that a game that is so dependent of good teamwork doesn't have an elegant, automatic VOIP comm for teams like they used in Battlefield 2 (probably the 100th time I've mentioned this in the forums).

I don't think that it requires VOIP to work effectively. Teams just have to be open to communication.

[SteelPaladin]

RumRunner151, on 01 November 2012 - 07:11 AM, said:

http://mwomercs.com/...nd-trial-mechs/
http://mwomercs.com/...raining-grounds

They are working on it. Its improving.

Please beat more dead horses.

A video and the most vague of promises. Really? We're just supposed to silently trust that 'they got this' based off of that? I've been in so many betas w/so many devs going "just trust us, we got this." Surprise, surprise, they didn't got this.

Yeah, this horse isn't going to the glue factory until they have solid and fleshed out design elements along w/evidence that they're actually implementing them before the heat death of the universe.

Edited by SteelPaladin, 01 November 2012 - 08:48 AM.

[Lefty Lucy]

Aware, on 01 November 2012 - 08:26 AM, said:

I don't think that it requires VOIP to work effectively. Teams just have to be open to communication.

One of the problems is that typing reduces reaction time to enemy movement and requires that you stop fighting for a few seconds. So if two teams are making an attempt at coordination, the voice advantage is a large one.

[Thirdrail]

I agree completely. Everytime someone says "Just get on teamspeak!" I think, wow, you're really missing the point. There is no reason this game shouldn't have voice chat comparable to Crimson Skies 2, which was on the original Xbox in 2003.

I'd also really like it if you could see all the details about weapons and stuff when you're in mechlab, instead of having to go wander around the internet looking stuff up.

I think both these things will happen, in time. The game is very playable, but it's still a long way from finished.