39 replies to this topic

[Twosteps]

MntRunner, on 01 November 2012 - 08:58 AM, said:

You say that everyone should know about the TS server, but you don't list the server information. I've actually been looking for it too. I had it in closed beta, but can't find where it's listed since I started playing the game again.

http://mwomercs.com/...e-chat-servers/

Sorry, I didn't want to show favorites by just listing one TS server.

[Taryys]

Maybe I should make it stand out more. I will have to take a look at that.

MntRunner, on 01 November 2012 - 09:40 AM, said:

Thanks, didn't see it in there when I first looked. However,this guide only links to another thread that has the information so it can be easy to skip over the link if you're doing a quick search.

Here is link the the TS server information thread. UNOFFICIAL & COMMUNITY-RUN VOICE CHAT SERVERS

[Twosteps]

Blakwind, on 01 November 2012 - 09:44 AM, said:

What I AM seeing,

And that's just it, you're only seeing, not hearing. You're not hearing the coordination on team speak of calling out specific targets, warning who is a Streak Cat or a Gauss Cat, or declaring "I'll go back to stall the base cap", or "let's try to draw this guy over the ridge."

[GrimlockONE]

Blakwind, on 01 November 2012 - 09:44 AM, said:

My first 10 matches (and losses) didn't find this game to be complex at all. I keep reading this is a 'complex game', some kind of elitist misconception of people who love the whole 'battle mech' idea. It's nowhere nearly as complex as playing on a coordinated Arma2 team. Here you close with the enemy, fire weapons on the enemy and destroy him. Use a little cover and watch your heat level. What is so damn 'complex' about this?

What I AM seeing, is groups of people playing on teamspeak, concentrating fire on people that are causally attempting the game, (In one match, I literally had 5 mechs concentrating LRM fire on just me, yeah that happened by chance) and pretty much suffering no serious damage or loss. This again, is not some kind of 'complex tactic', it's just communications that aren't available to the casual players blundering into this mess.

Ask any of the Teams who ran in RHOD tourney or apart of the league about the complexities. This game turns into one of chess when two skilled teams are playing each other. Your small sampling of matches and small quantity of posts leads me to believe that you lack the experience to say otherwise. The fundamentals are not complex but working as a team of eight versus another team of eight can be a fun and satisfying affair. It can also be a painful and aggravating affair when you are bested at strategy.

Blakwind, on 01 November 2012 - 09:44 AM, said:

Here you close with the enemy, fire weapons on the enemy and destroy him. Use a little cover and watch your heat level. What is so damn 'complex' about this?

What I AM seeing, is groups of people playing on teamspeak, concentrating fire on people that are causally attempting the game, (In one match, I literally had 5 mechs concentrating LRM fire on just me, yeah that happened by chance) and pretty much suffering no serious damage or loss. This again, is not some kind of 'complex tactic', it's just communications that aren't available to the casual players blundering into this mess.

Your first segment is fundamentals of Mechwarrior that everyone should follow.

Your second segment is erroneous on a few levels. First, PGI is offering free TS servers for any to use. Secondly, they have a VOIP client offered with the game. So for you to come off and use that as an excuse for PuGs is plain wrong. Olive branches have been extended. If you want to ignore them or not use them is up to you.

Grim

Edited by GrimlockONE, 01 November 2012 - 09:58 AM.

[GioAvanti]

Blakwind, on 01 November 2012 - 09:44 AM, said:

My first 10 matches (and losses) didn't find this game to be complex at all. I keep reading this is a 'complex game', some kind of elitist misconception of people who love the whole 'battle mech' idea. It's nowhere nearly as complex as playing on a coordinated Arma2 team. Here you close with the enemy, fire weapons on the enemy and destroy him. Use a little cover and watch your heat level. What is so damn 'complex' about this?

What I AM seeing, is groups of people playing on teamspeak, concentrating fire on people that are causally attempting the game, (In one match, I literally had 5 mechs concentrating LRM fire on just me, yeah that happened by chance) and pretty much suffering no serious damage or loss. This again, is not some kind of 'complex tactic', it's just communications that aren't available to the casual players blundering into this mess.

The mechanics of how to pilot a mech are not hard; really not much harder than a car with lasers. However, the game itself is extremely strategic. This game at some point should have 100+ mechs and each mech brings something different. Each weapon brings something different. Do you go for the center of the mech or go for it's main weapon? Should you close or stay at range? Is an XL engine a smart choice? Why does a 35 jenner give so much trouble to a 100 atlas?

Even 1 on 1 the game can get complicated with just these questions (and there's a lot more).

But in a team match... 12 on 12 + it's a massive chess match. For instance.. mechs that have no place 8 on 8 now have a place 36 on 36....

People also joke about the urbanmech or urbie, but the Urbie is meant for close range city fights... its rather hilarious when upgraded.

[Blakwind]

Khobai, on 01 November 2012 - 09:50 AM, said:

Theres two main things that makes this game more complex than arma2:
1) you can face a different direction than you move
2) your arm and torso weapons have seperate reticles

You apparently haven't played Arma2. This is not complexity. It's just different game mechanics. Complexity is changing the radio frequency on your in game radio so you can talk to a different group. Complexity is putting down smoke to indicate where you want your teammate to do an airstrike. Complexity is pinning down an enemy while flanking with another force.

Complexity in MWO. "Everyone fire on the Atlas by the building!"

[GrimlockONE]

Blakwind, on 01 November 2012 - 10:21 AM, said:

You apparently haven't played Arma2. This is not complexity. It's just different game mechanics. Complexity is changing the radio frequency on your in game radio so you can talk to a different group. Complexity is putting down smoke to indicate where you want your teammate to do an airstrike. Complexity is pinning down an enemy while flanking with another force.

Complexity in MWO. "Everyone fire on the Atlas by the building!"

Apparently you haven't played MWO. Complexity is having your two scouts go left and right to see which way the enemy advances. Complexity is having your assaults move to face the enemy unit while having your mediums flank them. Complexity is having your scouts break off and harass LRM and Sniper builds to let your brawlers breathe. Complexity is having a scout scamper into enemy base to pull some of the opposition back to protect.

I Win.

[Ravensol]

This op is exactly why i purposed the 90second pregame timer idea. you got 90 seconds to make a plan as soon as 5/8 of the team hits ready the team is ready if both teams hit there ready at 5 second or 80 seconds won't matter as long as both are shown ready it starts the match. I mention this idea simply for the fact not everyone will use a voice chat all the time even if it was ingame and easy to use. Recomending that plp use it is a very good idea that will help the success rate of your team is good. But saying to all the plp that don't use ts we dont want to put anything ingame to help battle plans for you because you choose not to use a voice chat is wrong and will drive off some plp that would spend money on this game that is just bad for the bank account.

[Blakwind]

GrimlockONE, on 01 November 2012 - 10:31 AM, said:

Apparently you haven't played MWO. Complexity is having your two scouts go left and right to see which way the enemy advances. Complexity is having your assaults move to face the enemy unit while having your mediums flank them. Complexity is having your scouts break off and harass LRM and Sniper builds to let your brawlers breathe. Complexity is having a scout scamper into enemy base to pull some of the opposition back to protect.

I Win.

That's not complexity either. That's tactics. Tactics can be done with communications. Team Fortress 2 has tactics. There's nothing complex about scouting your enemy and applying your assets to deal with them. Of course, unless you've joined a group with communications, this isn't possible. I watch videos of people fighting, there is nothing complex about this game. Circle strafe and watch your heat, use your jump jets to dart around landing shots OR stand off and lob in LRM's. Nothing that isn't done in any other FPS. Again, this whole 'game is complex' concept is bull.

@GioAvanti Now I don't disagree with you. The meta-game is important, especially if you play in a regular group as you can tailor your mechs to fulfill specific roles. Still, there is the danger that an 'optimal' design will be found and will become common in the game. It's like the meta game leading up to playing Warhammer Fantasy Battle. People spend more time designing their armies than they do actually playing the game!

[MCXL]

MWO doesn't compare to ARMA when it comes to complexity, because of just about everything.

Everything about ARMA is significantly more involved: MUCH larger forces (8v8 vs 64 players or more), less forgiving engagements, archaic mechanics, multiple role coordination (and I don't mean light tanks and heavy tanks, which is what MWO is, I mean infantry and air support) not to mention the fact that ARMA maps are something like 300 times bigger than a MWO map, (and you traverse them on foot which enhances scale as well)

Some people just don't get it.

[GioAvanti]

Blakwind, on 01 November 2012 - 10:21 AM, said:

You apparently haven't played Arma2. This is not complexity. It's just different game mechanics. Complexity is changing the radio frequency on your in game radio so you can talk to a different group. Complexity is putting down smoke to indicate where you want your teammate to do an airstrike. Complexity is pinning down an enemy while flanking with another force.

Complexity in MWO. "Everyone fire on the Atlas by the building!"

MWO has those things also....C3 > radio frequencies though because it translates into almost a HUD of battle (C3 if done like its description instead of just VOIP) C3 allows mechs to share targetting information; obviously this is huge when you lose LOS.

Putting down smoke = Narc, Tag
And pinning down and flanking an opponent can happen in most games....happens in MWO currently....

So what were you saying? I mean a bunch of idiots can scream shoot that guy, but that doesn't remove the complexity of any game.




PS- I think everyone wants bigger maps and bigger fights... if 8 on 8 is where MWO maxes out; it'll be a sad day.

Edited by GioAvanti, 01 November 2012 - 10:51 AM.

[GrimlockONE]

Blakwind, on 01 November 2012 - 10:39 AM, said:

That's not complexity either. That's tactics. Tactics can be done with communications. Team Fortress 2 has tactics. There's nothing complex about scouting your enemy and applying your assets to deal with them. Of course, unless you've joined a group with communications, this isn't possible. I watch videos of people fighting, there is nothing complex about this game. Circle strafe and watch your heat, use your jump jets to dart around landing shots OR stand off and lob in LRM's. Nothing that isn't done in any other FPS. Again, this whole 'game is complex' concept is bull.

@GioAvanti Now I don't disagree with you. The meta-game is important, especially if you play in a regular group as you can tailor your mechs to fulfill specific roles. Still, there is the danger that an 'optimal' design will be found and will become common in the game. It's like the meta game leading up to playing Warhammer Fantasy Battle. People spend more time designing their armies than they do actually playing the game!

Blakwind, on 01 November 2012 - 10:21 AM, said:

Complexity is pinning down an enemy while flanking with another force.

Then nothing in your post is complexity either. That is tactics as you have described my post as.

Edited by GrimlockONE, 01 November 2012 - 10:51 AM.

[Xantha]

This really should have been addressed before going Open Beta. The system needs a solo drop component with an actual tutorial.

[Taryys]

Unfortunately it is not really up to PGI. IGP has as lot of say and so do other investors.
If PGI had the say and had a crap load of money backing them, then they would have waited, but they do not, so they could not.
It sucks. It really does. I wish they could have waited to, but it was not possible due to external requirements.

Stormfury, on 01 November 2012 - 10:51 AM, said:

This really should have been addressed before going Open Beta. The system needs a solo drop component with an actual tutorial.

[GrimlockONE]

[Lyoto Machida]

GrimlockONE, on 01 November 2012 - 10:49 AM, said:

Then nothing in your post is complexity either. That is tactics as you have described my post as.

He probably won't listen to whatever argument you make, whether it's good or not. He's probabaly never played in a premade against another premade. Some will figure it out, some won't...

[GrimlockONE]

My only suggestion would be for him to go back to trolling the ARMA forums. I wont tolerate it here.

[Paul Boudreaux]

Thing is I've played ARMA and ARMA II. Neither MWO nor ARMA are more complex. Both are sim games that are heavily based on the use of tactics. Some of ARMA II's mods may make things more difficult in the sense of having to take more stuff into account on an individual level (ie. windage/distance for snipers, increased complexity for ingame comms, more buttons need pushed on keyboard to do stuff, etc) but as far as group/tactical complexity they are about the same.

[Treehugger]

Twosteps, on 01 November 2012 - 06:01 AM, said:

New Players to the game are hitting substantial learning curve, and I'm sure the game is very frustrating for them.

We've all seen them. They tend to:

1. Rock out the biggest trial mech they can get (Awesome)

2. Charg in solo like John Rambo.

3. Get softened up by the opposing teams LRM focus fire.

4. Firing their own LRMs at point blank range doint no damage.

5. Get mopped up by the opposing team.

I'm completely new to the game, and it's actually the first time I've been involved in anything to do with Battletech.
Truly, I tend to use the bigger mechs (Dragon & Awesome), but after a couple of games I'd say I'm doing fairly well. I got invited to the game by two friends who seem to be Battletech veterans, and they taught me all the basics too.

I think that should I have discovered the game on my own, I would have dropped out pretty much instantly. Using Teamspeak and playing with more experienced people who can give you tips is great.

[Coolant]

then the next game they dont charge in, and avoid LRM fire better, they realize they can actually survive for a few minutes....they stay...