Today i had to deal again with one of the idiots who like to shoot their teammates in the back just after the start of the match.
Needless to say we had to kill him and i got punished for the killshot.
Why do you allow griefers to damage all teammates without any consequence and if they have to defend themselves they get punished?
I suggest that any team attack deals at least 40 percent of damage to the team attackers mech, 100 percent and insta-death during the first 1 or 2 minutes of the match.
If that's not possible at least don't give any punishments for shooting at people who previously attacked one of their team members so people can deal with them.
4
Don't punish Teamkill, punish Team Attack
Started by Shredder25, Nov 01 2012 01:53 PM
44 replies to this topic
#3
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- Ace Of Spades
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Posted 02 November 2012 - 07:47 PM
I mostly pilot the Jenner. (I love the small size, high speed and high manoeuvrability).
For those who haven't spent much time in a light mech, you might be surprised just how much damage comes from accidental friendly fire. I'm constantly weaving through a battlefield, taking damage intended for others. Mostly it's minor splash damage or laser shots...
...Still, I would not want to see the situation where someone else was penalised because I was getting into the heat of things.
More-over, I would not want to see teammates pulling their punches because they were worried about being penalised for every little piece of damage that hits a teammate.
I agree that there is a definite problem with intentional team-attacking. However, there is likely no way to automate an in-game system to handle this. Better to instead stay with emailing support@mwomercs.com and letting them handle it.
For those who haven't spent much time in a light mech, you might be surprised just how much damage comes from accidental friendly fire. I'm constantly weaving through a battlefield, taking damage intended for others. Mostly it's minor splash damage or laser shots...
...Still, I would not want to see the situation where someone else was penalised because I was getting into the heat of things.
More-over, I would not want to see teammates pulling their punches because they were worried about being penalised for every little piece of damage that hits a teammate.
I agree that there is a definite problem with intentional team-attacking. However, there is likely no way to automate an in-game system to handle this. Better to instead stay with emailing support@mwomercs.com and letting them handle it.
#4
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- 36 posts
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Posted 02 November 2012 - 08:32 PM
Agree with the OP title.
Currently game makes you lose cash when you KILL a friendly.
This should be based on "DAMAGE TO FRIENDLY target" instead.
As for the valus you would pay, well that shouldn't be that high, if let's say a kill (100% damage) to a friendly mech would be 15K then a few shots in the heat of battle wouldn't cost much.
Team harass is more common than what you could thought.
Yesterday some jerks had funs shooting every team memebrs to no armor and then leave them like this...
Currently game makes you lose cash when you KILL a friendly.
This should be based on "DAMAGE TO FRIENDLY target" instead.
As for the valus you would pay, well that shouldn't be that high, if let's say a kill (100% damage) to a friendly mech would be 15K then a few shots in the heat of battle wouldn't cost much.
Team harass is more common than what you could thought.
Yesterday some jerks had funs shooting every team memebrs to no armor and then leave them like this...
Edited by The Velociraptor, 02 November 2012 - 08:34 PM.
#5
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Posted 02 November 2012 - 08:44 PM
How do you strike the balance between heavy enough penalty to dissuade from malicious team-attacking and light enough penalty that friendlies are still willing to risk the occasional accidental hit to help you out in a brawl?
Either the penalty is light enough that few will worry about it, or the penalty is so severe that your teammates constantly pull their punches for fear of lost C-Bills.
I think you'll find that long before you get to a heavy enough penalty to stop the offending behaviour it will have had serious repercussions on battlefield tactics.
Better to take screen-shots and email them to PGI staff. Ask your teammates to do likewise. Get the offending player banned.
Either the penalty is light enough that few will worry about it, or the penalty is so severe that your teammates constantly pull their punches for fear of lost C-Bills.
I think you'll find that long before you get to a heavy enough penalty to stop the offending behaviour it will have had serious repercussions on battlefield tactics.
Better to take screen-shots and email them to PGI staff. Ask your teammates to do likewise. Get the offending player banned.
Edited by ltwally, 02 November 2012 - 08:45 PM.
#6
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- 340 posts
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- LocationKitchener, ON
Posted 02 November 2012 - 09:20 PM
Umm... I disagree 100%.
When you're standing there with a mech in your sights and some noob runs in front of you while you are letting your lasers rip, how is that your fault? If I have position and someone crosses the firing line, why should I get punished?
The idea might work, but only for the first 15-30 seconds of a match. Otherwise how do you determine whether it was intentional or not?
Don't get me wrong, this drives me as nuts as it does you. Heck, people firing off ammo at nothing at the start of a match clearly tells me they don't care if they win or lose, which doesn't make me happy even without damage. But consider how you'd feel is you got penalized for someone else's stupidity...
When you're standing there with a mech in your sights and some noob runs in front of you while you are letting your lasers rip, how is that your fault? If I have position and someone crosses the firing line, why should I get punished?
The idea might work, but only for the first 15-30 seconds of a match. Otherwise how do you determine whether it was intentional or not?
Don't get me wrong, this drives me as nuts as it does you. Heck, people firing off ammo at nothing at the start of a match clearly tells me they don't care if they win or lose, which doesn't make me happy even without damage. But consider how you'd feel is you got penalized for someone else's stupidity...
#7
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- 7 posts
Rookie
Posted 02 November 2012 - 09:39 PM
It is not about stupidity...some mechs simply cannot fight at the high distance range...onece you get close you are bound to start going around your target..cus if you dont move you ge focused...you die...
You need some vry precise snipers , ppl on medium ranges or you will eat a few shots on the side/back...especialy in urban areas where you may get someone of your team jumping from behind a building right on your line of fire...i didnt get to play the game that much so i dont know if the radar is any help in determening if anyone is about to jump in your line of fire...and im not sure at what distance it will be efffective...
Now about griefing...thats a whole different thing...evryone who has played LoL knows that they implemented reporting mechanics..i think something along those lines would be nice...someone griefs...you report him..he gets banned ^^
You need some vry precise snipers , ppl on medium ranges or you will eat a few shots on the side/back...especialy in urban areas where you may get someone of your team jumping from behind a building right on your line of fire...i didnt get to play the game that much so i dont know if the radar is any help in determening if anyone is about to jump in your line of fire...and im not sure at what distance it will be efffective...
Now about griefing...thats a whole different thing...evryone who has played LoL knows that they implemented reporting mechanics..i think something along those lines would be nice...someone griefs...you report him..he gets banned ^^
#8
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- 340 posts
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- LocationKitchener, ON
Posted 02 November 2012 - 09:50 PM
This happened to me just tonight. It was an Awesome. Walked in front of me, torso twisted to the target, literally so close if he was any closer he would have hit me. He must have been just inches outside of my view range when I hit fire. I'm sure he took at least 16 points from my 2 LLs to his back. And not a thing I could have done to stop it.
I'm all for stopping griefing, just not sure that penalizing friendly fire during the whole match is the way to do it. (Besides, chances are, if they are griefing, they don't care about the money. They're probably just interested in griefing until they get booted.)
I'm all for stopping griefing, just not sure that penalizing friendly fire during the whole match is the way to do it. (Besides, chances are, if they are griefing, they don't care about the money. They're probably just interested in griefing until they get booted.)
#9
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- 206 posts
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- LocationNevada, USA
Posted 02 November 2012 - 10:46 PM
ltwally, on 02 November 2012 - 07:47 PM, said:
...
For those who haven't spent much time in a light mech, you might be surprised just how much damage comes from accidental friendly fire. I'm constantly weaving through a battlefield, taking damage intended for others. Mostly it's minor splash damage or laser shots...
...Still, I would not want to see the situation where someone else was penalised because I was getting into the heat of things.
More-over, I would not want to see teammates pulling their punches because they were worried about being penalised for every little piece of damage that hits a teammate.
...
For those who haven't spent much time in a light mech, you might be surprised just how much damage comes from accidental friendly fire. I'm constantly weaving through a battlefield, taking damage intended for others. Mostly it's minor splash damage or laser shots...
...Still, I would not want to see the situation where someone else was penalised because I was getting into the heat of things.
More-over, I would not want to see teammates pulling their punches because they were worried about being penalised for every little piece of damage that hits a teammate.
...
Very true. In my Raven I've been killed by incidental friendly fire a number of times due to no real fault of anyone involved, just unlucky timing in running around a corner while badly damaged.
I've been scratched up by friendly lasers while dodging around in a clusterf*ck purely because everyone was shooting into the same area that I happened to be in. It happens, all the time. But the person who did it doesn't deserve to be punished for accidental little nicks and grazes.
The problem is that there's really no way for the system to determine if it was intentional or not.
#10
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- Bad Company
- 34 posts
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Posted 03 November 2012 - 12:03 AM
Same issue for us again tonight. Since nobody on the other side saw this flaming d**che-waffle stripping our own guys' arms off, and taking out their back armor, everyone QQ'd about me giving him the much needed punch in the face he deserved.
My suggestion - triangle changes color - bonus to both sides to kill the person, if they put out xxxxxx amount of damage to friendlies. Put the punishment where it belongs.
My suggestion - triangle changes color - bonus to both sides to kill the person, if they put out xxxxxx amount of damage to friendlies. Put the punishment where it belongs.
#11
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- 18 posts
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Posted 03 November 2012 - 02:48 AM
maybe a voting system could help?
after a tk or if someone took a % amount of friendly fire a vote for penalty pops up (yes / no). ff happens and i think its wrong to lower the dmg or anything else because it would take out the advantage to keep 2 enemys in a line to you, so only one can shoot at you.
please excuse my excellent english, but i think you know what i mean
after a tk or if someone took a % amount of friendly fire a vote for penalty pops up (yes / no). ff happens and i think its wrong to lower the dmg or anything else because it would take out the advantage to keep 2 enemys in a line to you, so only one can shoot at you.
please excuse my excellent english, but i think you know what i mean
#12
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- Bridesmaid
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- LocationTerra
Posted 03 November 2012 - 06:17 AM
I see no problem with handing out credit/xp penalties for damage to teammates at half up to twice the rate of credits/xp for damage to enemies. Same w/component destruction and team kills. Ok, maybe, to account for acidental team damage, make team damage penalty a little smaller and increase the penalties for comp. destruction and TKs. Also, higher penalties for the first seconds of the game sounds good to.
Piloting a Commando mostly, I'd appreaciate it if people would be more carefull when firing into an ongoing circle [redacted]. Then again, with the way hit detection is off currently, accidents are bound to happen.
Piloting a Commando mostly, I'd appreaciate it if people would be more carefull when firing into an ongoing circle [redacted]. Then again, with the way hit detection is off currently, accidents are bound to happen.
#13
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- Bad Company
- 2,687 posts
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- LocationPetal, MS
Posted 03 November 2012 - 06:21 AM
John Shirley, on 01 November 2012 - 01:53 PM, said:
Today i had to deal again with one of the idiots who like to shoot their teammates in the back just after the start of the match.
Needless to say we had to kill him and i got punished for the killshot.
Why do you allow griefers to damage all teammates without any consequence and if they have to defend themselves they get punished?
I suggest that any team attack deals at least 40 percent of damage to the team attackers mech, 100 percent and insta-death during the first 1 or 2 minutes of the match.
If that's not possible at least don't give any punishments for shooting at people who previously attacked one of their team members so people can deal with them.
Needless to say we had to kill him and i got punished for the killshot.
Why do you allow griefers to damage all teammates without any consequence and if they have to defend themselves they get punished?
I suggest that any team attack deals at least 40 percent of damage to the team attackers mech, 100 percent and insta-death during the first 1 or 2 minutes of the match.
If that's not possible at least don't give any punishments for shooting at people who previously attacked one of their team members so people can deal with them.
How do you know it wasn't a new player, unsure of controls who accidentaly shot you... ?? Now, if he continued to shoot, different story... but still...
#14
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- 735 posts
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- Locationwarrington Cheshire UK
Posted 03 November 2012 - 06:34 AM
im not sure how this would be implemented. but it would be nice. just today i took a laser in the back by a raven he had shot at a few other mechs right at the start so i turned round in my gausspult two shots to the cockpit and he went down and he never said a word to in the entire game but did not disconnect
but i got the team kill penalty. there should be a report button in the heads up map section
he did this twice today once the whole team took him out and the other one just me. he knew what he was doing
but i got the team kill penalty. there should be a report button in the heads up map section
he did this twice today once the whole team took him out and the other one just me. he knew what he was doing
Edited by bloodnor, 03 November 2012 - 06:36 AM.
#15
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- Bad Company
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- LocationPetal, MS
Posted 03 November 2012 - 06:48 AM
In a case like that bloodnor... email support@mwomercs.com and file a ticket about the player for griefing...
I typically don't retaliate when I get shot by friendly fire no if I'm getting TK'd (hasn't happen'd to me yet...)... typically... few months back, I did TK a friendly Commando... start of the match he opens up with everything he had (lol... ) on the back of our teams K2... K2 kept trying to move and the Commando kept shooting him...
Asked the commando in chat "WTF..." and told him to knock it off... he didn't so I move up behind him and let him have 4xSRM6's to the back... entire team thanked me then reported the player I had just killed...
Funny... haven't seen him around any since then either...
I typically don't retaliate when I get shot by friendly fire no if I'm getting TK'd (hasn't happen'd to me yet...)... typically... few months back, I did TK a friendly Commando... start of the match he opens up with everything he had (lol... ) on the back of our teams K2... K2 kept trying to move and the Commando kept shooting him...
Asked the commando in chat "WTF..." and told him to knock it off... he didn't so I move up behind him and let him have 4xSRM6's to the back... entire team thanked me then reported the player I had just killed...
Funny... haven't seen him around any since then either...
#16
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- 238 posts
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Posted 03 November 2012 - 07:28 AM
Simple solution: Disable friendly fire.
No game to date has had friendly fire enabled, and not have griefing. MWO won't be the first.
All previous MW games had option to disable friendly fire. MWO is the first that doesn't.
No game to date has had friendly fire enabled, and not have griefing. MWO won't be the first.
All previous MW games had option to disable friendly fire. MWO is the first that doesn't.
Edited by Dagger906, 03 November 2012 - 07:29 AM.
#17
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- 7 posts
Rookie
Posted 03 November 2012 - 07:45 AM
Dagger906, on 03 November 2012 - 07:28 AM, said:
Simple solution: Disable friendly fire.
No game to date has had friendly fire enabled, and not have griefing. MWO won't be the first.
All previous MW games had option to disable friendly fire. MWO is the first that doesn't.
No game to date has had friendly fire enabled, and not have griefing. MWO won't be the first.
All previous MW games had option to disable friendly fire. MWO is the first that doesn't.
Most ppl like the friendly fire...it brings a drop of realism...and the better ppl become in the game the less they will hit friendry targets...
...griefers will always be a problem...they will find another way to grief...like killing themselfs without fireing a single bullet...bumping ito you on full speed...
best way to deal with them is with reports and bans...
#18
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- 145 posts
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- LocationQuebec
Posted 03 November 2012 - 07:49 AM
I agree with OP for different reason but still I agree people would think before firing (LRM for instance) if they got malus for damaging enemies.
#19
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- 238 posts
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Posted 03 November 2012 - 08:38 AM
Dorkselot, on 03 November 2012 - 07:45 AM, said:
Most ppl like the friendly fire...it brings a drop of realism...and the better ppl become in the game the less they will hit friendry targets...
...griefers will always be a problem...they will find another way to grief...like killing themselfs without fireing a single bullet...bumping ito you on full speed...
best way to deal with them is with reports and bans...
...griefers will always be a problem...they will find another way to grief...like killing themselfs without fireing a single bullet...bumping ito you on full speed...
best way to deal with them is with reports and bans...
No game has ever managed to have friendly fire but not griefing.
Pick your poison... or maybe you don't have to. Like friendly fire? Turn it on. Don't like griefing? Turn it off. That's what "optional" means, and that's what overwhelming majority of games go for - giving you the choice.
#20
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- Ace Of Spades
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Posted 03 November 2012 - 09:20 AM
Telthalion, on 02 November 2012 - 10:46 PM, said:
Very true. In my Raven I've been killed by incidental friendly fire a number of times due to no real fault of anyone involved, just unlucky timing in running around a corner while badly damaged.
I've been scratched up by friendly lasers while dodging around in a clusterf*ck purely because everyone was shooting into the same area that I happened to be in. It happens, all the time. But the person who did it doesn't deserve to be punished for accidental little nicks and grazes.
The problem is that there's really no way for the system to determine if it was intentional or not.
I've been scratched up by friendly lasers while dodging around in a clusterf*ck purely because everyone was shooting into the same area that I happened to be in. It happens, all the time. But the person who did it doesn't deserve to be punished for accidental little nicks and grazes.
The problem is that there's really no way for the system to determine if it was intentional or not.
And it's bad enough when it's blue-on-blue that gets you killed... but that is relatively uncommon.
Blue-on-blue hits are not. They happen frequently, for various reasons.
Adding an in-system punishment for blue-on-blue fire is unlikely to stop those purposefully doing it. Long before that point is reached, it will have had a substantial and negative impact on legitimate gameplay.
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