105 replies to this topic

[LarryDaBird]

Blackfire1, on 04 November 2012 - 08:54 PM, said:

Firepower is just an alpha strike. There is more to this game then that. You would be smart to remember then when you getting your **** shot off by large lasers and Streaks.

Not really trying to be mean or anything but alpha strikes are the only thing that matter on direct fire mechs, Find a mech and figure out how to get the alpha as high as possible without overheating it at the highest range and you have a winner, sure you can break up some weapons groups for heat management to cool off but to be competitive you should be able to 2-3 shot any mech including the CT of an Atlas. The good Atlas drivers are going to kill an atlas in no more than 3 shots at 500m and not overheat.

I guess thats why I'm ok with overcooling, I'm already running an atlas with a 51 point direct fire pinpoint alpha that is sustainable heat-wise for the three shots I need to kill something, what is the harm in boosting it up to 55 dmg or 60 damage alphas and letting everyone run it a little cooler. I don't understand the point of limiting direct fire alpha when you still have to be able to hit what your aiming at. Everything will increase in alpha potential including light mechs and we might actually start seeing some of the big weapons being used on stuff other than trials regularly.

Part of the reason the Gauss and LRM are such a popular weapon is that 5 heatsinks can keep an LRM 20 cool almost forever and the gauss doesn't heat up period. Either make every weapon, LRMs streaks and gauss included so hot that I have to think very hard about which individual weapon or two I want to use or just make everything heat you up a lot slower so the alpha is king. Right now the alpha is king, but there are only a couple of ways to do it. LRMing and gauss are the two that stick out as the poor mans alpha boats for most people, the high alphas take a while to think about and design but are just superior to any other build I've fought as or against.

Edited by LarryDaBird, 04 November 2012 - 09:42 PM.

[Aaron DeChavilier]

LarryDaBird, on 04 November 2012 - 09:31 PM, said:

Not really trying to be mean or anything but alpha strikes are the only thing that matter on direct fire mechs, Find a mech and figure out how to get the alpha as high as possible without overheating it at the highest range and you have a winner, sure you can break up some weapons groups for heat management to cool off but to be competitive you should be able to 2-3 shot any mech including the CT of an Atlas. The good Atlas drivers are going to kill an atlas in no more than 3 shots at 500m and not overheat.

I guess thats why I'm ok with overcooling, I'm already running an atlas with a 51 point direct fire pinpoint alpha that is sustainable heat-wise, what is the harm in boosting it up to 55 dmg or 60 damage alphas and letting everyone run it a little cooler. I don't understand the point of limiting direct fire alpha when you still have to be able to hit what your aiming at. Everything will increase in alpha potential including light mechs and we might actually start seeing some of the big weapons being used on stuff other than trials regularly.

Part of the reason the LRM is such a popular weapon is that 5 heatsinks can keep an LRM 20 cool almost forever. Either make every weapon, LRMs streaks and gauss included so hot that I have to think very hard about which individual weapon or two I want to use or just make everything heat you up a lot slower so the alpha is king. Right now the alpha is king, but there are only a couple of ways to do it.

then maybe MWO should have...I dunno...some sort of sliding scale of effects that hinder a mech that gets too hot; if only we had some knowledge about what these effects would be and when they would be added.

[LarryDaBird]

Aaron DeChavilier, on 04 November 2012 - 09:37 PM, said:

then maybe MWO should have...I dunno...some sort of sliding scale of effects that hinder a mech that gets too hot; if only we had some knowledge about what these effects would be and when they would be added.

I agree with you that it would be a fix but heat is still the issue. With lowered performance at high heat added then the dual gauss and LRMs are the king again because they run so cool and there is NO reason to try to build a mech that gets anywhere near redline, just use small weapons as supplemental damage for your gauss or LRM packages and pack as many of the big boys on a mech as you can. There is not a reason to push your mech if there is a drawback and some new alpha build will retain a 35-40 point alpha while staying cool at long range. It doesn't change the way the game plays, it just changes the overall damage that each mech is going to put out at once. Also, unless I'm soloing it doesn't change my alpha mech either, I only heat to around 35-40% per shot and when I run in a premade we usually have 3 atlases with at least 50 pt alphas running together that can one shot alpha core whatever sticks it head out first.

Also, I personally don't take anything much off the planned list and count it as something that is going to be included. Since August, other than the new mechs, tag, being a little less laggy and c bill tweaks the gameplay is still the exact same. The engine tweaks slowed matches down a little but didn't change a thing as far as game play was concerned, just limited the current system. Matchmaker has been in the works since early September as the great balancing tweak that will fix this game and it isn't planned to be fully implemented for another 2-3 weeks (The jury is still out as to how effective that will be or when it will actually happen). This whole topic is about what double heat sinks were supposed to do because they were going to be the savior of the PPC and big laser boat (Looks like we were wrong they aren't really changing a thing).

I don't know if its promised or not but I don't expect a lot of new features like that, if its the case that it actually happens, well I'll believe it when I see it. And then we'll see how much it actually effects the game other than possibly being a minor inconvenience like your ret becoming more see through or something that "works to perform the desired effect" without affecting a thing.

Edited by LarryDaBird, 04 November 2012 - 10:09 PM.

[shortpainter]

here is the solution

1.4 DHS for Light and Medium mechs

2.0 DHS for Heavy and Assault mechs

[Onyx Rain]

shortpainter, on 04 November 2012 - 10:13 PM, said:

here is the solution

1.4 DHS for Light and Medium mechs

2.0 DHS for Heavy and Assault mechs

I like Iceman's solution that he posted somewhere...
1.6 for the engines...2 for the free slots in the engines, 2 for the ones on the chassis. Better then the current broke system, better then the fix that will be overall be functionally equivalent to the broke system...or even worse because of the pulse/small laser changes...It doesn't gimp any builds currently using DHS, and it is a compromise between what we have, what we are getting and true DHS....thus limiting the potential for Op builds.

Oh and since the ones in the free slots, and chassis will be doubles of a 2 rating...We can still reasonably call them Doubles, and don't have to go with some silly "improved" or "advanced" Heat sink name.

[Armageddon]

C'Mon.... Double means DOUBLE! Two times! I wish I could say this was the last straw but from double armor to the way heat is managed, this double heat sink issue wasn't the last straw for me. So disappointed that PGI has take every opportunity they could to slow down the game-play and make things boring. MWO lacks all the intensity of the past games while simultaneously distancing itself from almost every TT rule in the book. I am not angry, I'm just disappointed (and sad)