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Dont spam the forum, send PGI & IGP email if u want DHS 2.0


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Poll: Dont spam the forum, send PGI & IGP email if u want DHS 2.0 (52 member(s) have cast votes)

Have you sent an email to PGI and/or IGP over the DHS issue?

  1. Yes I have (12 votes [23.08%])

    Percentage of vote: 23.08%

  2. No I haven't (24 votes [46.15%])

    Percentage of vote: 46.15%

  3. Why would you want a third option? Either you have or you haven't. (16 votes [30.77%])

    Percentage of vote: 30.77%

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#1 Academus

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Posted 02 November 2012 - 01:09 PM

tldr: Voice your concern to PGI through support@mwomercs.com and IGP through http://infinitegamep....com/contact-us

There's no meaning in making dozens of threads on the forum; not because exactly the same thing had been mentioned before, but because the forum is for discussion, for educating yourself of the issue, not demonstration of your determination.

If you want PGI to listen to you and to think again about the DHS thing, dont start another thread on the forum. Instead, send a mail to their mailbox. That way, they can easily count the number of people that actually think the move is bad. Plus you dont need to deal with fanboys either. Better still, send a mail to IGP, the publisher as well.

The following is what I sent to both PGI and IGP. Feel free to reuse and edit it as you like. Let your voice be heard properly.

Quote

Title: Re: MWO, please reconsider DHS 1.4 efficiency

To whom it may concern,

I am a player of Mechwarrior Online (MWO), and I am writing to you to request Piranha Games Inc. (PGI) to rethink the proposed implementation of double heat sink (DHS) being 1.4 times more effective in heat dispersion than single heat sink (SHS), thus not actually being "double".

There has been abundant mathematical and empirical evidences on the MWO forum that point out the current heat system already made high heat weapons underpowered and consequently unpopular, which in my opinion hurts the game's diversity and players' ability to customerise which is a cruical selling point of MWO with its mechlab. DHS are viewed by a sizeable portion of the community, including me, as a feasible temporary fix to the broken heat system and will lessen the imbalance until a proper in-depth analysis of all weapons' parameter and subsequent rebalancing could be done. Such a view is established under the assumption that DHS will indeed enjoy double efficiency over SHS, not only due to it being so in the source material, but also because the maths indicate that such an arrangement is best for game balance as well.

Therefore it comes as a shocking surprise that PGI do not act as I imagine a reasonable developing team would and set DHS efficiency at 2.0, but instead arbitrarily set it at 1.4 which makes DHS 30% less effective than it should, under the pretense of "balance issues". First, the community had provide mathematical evidence that proves with DHS set at such level, DHS will become inferior to SHS in many if not most cases, and incapable of giving any help to high heat weapons. If the new parameter is used, players are, in most cases, better off with SHS heat wise, thus make DHS' introduction moot.

In addition, the decision to drop DHS efficiency down to 1.4 came after PGI run a build with 2.0 and discovered "balancing issues". As PGI have confessed previously, they dont have an internal QA/test team, which means one of the following two things. One, the developers run the build by themselves with what little time they hadafter they done fixing bugs, or far more likely, two, the "balancing issues" were discovered by a contracted external teams. I would have to point out that the community do not have much confidence in the external testers after the recent patch where the entire external testing team failed to find out a bug community's member caught within ten minutes. I would like to ask PGI to not rely solely on the external testing teams on balancing issues. Not only that their competence is in question, but also for the fact that they are not the players who actually play the game.

Finally, I would like to point out that not giving DHS their supposed parameters will mean a lot of trouble down the road. PGI have decided to keep stock mechs that come straight out of the source materials around and act as training ground for new players. Even as of now, these SHS-using mechs overheat too easily, as in MWO heat builds up much quicker than in source materials. Once DHS-using stock mechs are introduced, which is inevitable as they exist in great numbers, these stock mechs will fare much worse than the SHS counterparts as in addition to having not enough heatsinks to cope with increased heat production in MWO, their DHS also suffer from reduced effectiveness, making DHS-equipped stock mechs doubly handicapped. Forcing new players to use hideously inferior mechs and as a result suffer extremely poor player experience is a sure recipe for diseaster for a F2P game.

Reducing DHS's efficiency from 2 to 1.4 is a exceedingly poor move. It's
1, mathematically unsound;
2, empirically unproven
3, diverge hugely from customers' expectation
4, leads to multiple foreseenable troubles in the future
It's bad for the community and also bad for business. I cannot overstress the importance of DHS to me, to the community, and to both short term and long term success of the game. I urge PGI to reconsider the action, for the direction MWO is going makes me difficult to introduce and suggest my friends to try the game out.

Yours faithfully,
MWO account: Academus

Edited by Academus, 02 November 2012 - 01:17 PM.


#2 ReD3y3

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Posted 02 November 2012 - 01:11 PM

I agree with alot of your response.

I wanted to send a ticket to them.

it seems their ticket system has been erased or not implemented with the website remodel.

#3 Redshift2k5

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Posted 02 November 2012 - 01:13 PM

Can you.. Try it with 1.4 and see for yourself how it works before sharpening your pitchforks?

Have you no testing spirit?

#4 anonymous175

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Posted 02 November 2012 - 01:19 PM

I was wondering what the "Topic of the Week" was.

Found it!

#5 Rifter

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Posted 02 November 2012 - 01:22 PM

I agree

#6 Siestrion

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Posted 02 November 2012 - 01:28 PM

View PostRedshift2k5, on 02 November 2012 - 01:13 PM, said:

Can you.. Try it with 1.4 and see for yourself how it works before sharpening your pitchforks?

Have you no testing spirit?


LoL Nope. I have no testing spirit. I paid money and there are no more resets. Anything I buy with MC now is permanent.

Side note: I'd be okay, if they called it Improved Heat Sink or something, instead of Double Heat Sink. Calling it Double Heat Sink feels like a slap in the face.

Edit: I did send an email.

Edited by Siestrion, 02 November 2012 - 01:28 PM.


#7 Rifter

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Posted 02 November 2012 - 01:36 PM

View PostRedshift2k5, on 02 November 2012 - 01:13 PM, said:

Can you.. Try it with 1.4 and see for yourself how it works before sharpening your pitchforks?

Have you no testing spirit?


This is not a reasonable thing to ask people when there is no more resets, just saving up to get DHS plus go back if you decide they are useless for your build is over 2 million cbills, thats well over a hour proabably 2 of playing at least just to try it out.

We are not in beta anymore as far as im concerened, game is launched, everything you do from now on counts.

#8 Alfred VonGunn

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Posted 02 November 2012 - 01:40 PM

Or you could just read the other threads and realize they already have the fix planned for either next patch or trh one after....

#9 Lightfoot

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Posted 02 November 2012 - 01:41 PM

I am not sure why emailing them is better than using the venue they request we use, the Forums.

As for the 1.4 DHS, well that's just goofy. If I currently run configs with 20 DHS and 10 of them are really singles in the engine that equals 30 heatsinks. If PGI makes them all 1.4 that equals 28 heatsinks. That means that all the 'mechs that don't need many heatsinks are getting a buff, while 'mechs that require heatsinking, like the AWS-9M which doesn't even run with 30 heatsinks, are getting a nerf.

I am sorry, but on the surface it sounds stupid, so it must be to nerf the Hunchback with 9 energy hardpoints and the Jenner with all the energy hardpoints. Heatsinks are not the problem, it's how the Hardpoints are implemented in Mechlab, and here we go again, another gamewide nerf to deal with the hardpoint distribution on two mechs. Just a wild guess.

Edited by Lightfoot, 02 November 2012 - 01:42 PM.


#10 Jacek Owens

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Posted 02 November 2012 - 01:44 PM

LOL

Couldn't care less about DHS, but then I haven't invested any cash in this game to make a super laser mech.

It's their game and this is beta, and...just perhaps.. the fact that so many of you founders are QQ'ing about their balance changes might mean they are doing the right thing...

#11 EDMW CSN

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Posted 02 November 2012 - 01:47 PM

PGI are making unpopular energy weapons like ER and large pulses even worse as it is with the new DHS changes. These changes don't just affect Founders, it affects everyone.

#12 Firion Corodix

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Posted 02 November 2012 - 01:49 PM

View PostRedshift2k5, on 02 November 2012 - 01:13 PM, said:

Can you.. Try it with 1.4 and see for yourself how it works before sharpening your pitchforks?

Have you no testing spirit?


Why test it? Math wise DHS at 1.4 are pretty much equal to the DHS we have now. Take for example an engine with 10 sinks and 6 DHS, now it's 22 heat in 10 seconds, when they are 1.4 it will be 22.4, pretty much identical.
Then take the case where there's only 1 DHS, right now that gives 12, after the change it will give 15.4.
So if you have 1-6 heat sinks and an engine with 10 sinks then you will see an improvement of 0.4-3.4, pretty much negligible since the mechs that really need the DHS would need way more than just 10 in an engine and 6 outside of it.
If you use more then 6 heat sinks then it's just going to be a nerf compared to the currently bugged DHS, and those are clearly not sufficient according to examples all over the forum.

So why wait to see how it works when math already tells it's going to work worse then it does right now? That's not even taking into account that pulse lasers are going to become even hotter too.


So when are we getting something to allow heavies and assaults to actually use the heavy energy weapons?

#13 Kushko

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Posted 02 November 2012 - 01:53 PM

I would also like to point out that heat dissipation in general does not follow the laws of physics. In MWO the higher ur heat is the slower u dissipate it, while it should have been the other way around. The hotter you are the colder the environment is in relation to you making you dissipate heat quicker.

Yes i know PGI cant deal with simple math and its almost cruel to involve physics as well, but i just thought id put it out there. :blink:

#14 Murphy7

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Posted 02 November 2012 - 02:01 PM

Firion,

That is a very misleading way of presenting the DHS numbers. In a thread I created and was subsequently locked, I had presented that the break even point with the DHS implementation lay between 16 and 17 DHS. Currently, 17 DHS gets you the equivalent of 24 single heat sinks, but after the patch will only be 23.8, which is a nerf of the heat dissipation for anyone who built a mech with 17 or greater DHS. At 20 DHS you currently get the effect of 30 singles, post patch will be the equivalent of 28 singles. How is that helpful, or useful as a global "upgrade"?

It is a gain for anyone running the stock 10 heat sinks on up to 16 doubles. That gain is diminishing, and only serves to encourage the small energy boating or devotion to a few specific ballistic weapons such as the Gauss rifle.

#15 Squigles

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Posted 02 November 2012 - 02:06 PM

View PostAlfred VonGunn, on 02 November 2012 - 01:40 PM, said:

Or you could just read the other threads and realize they already have the fix planned for either next patch or trh one after....


The "fix" is what's changing them to a value of 1.4......

Whoops.


View PostMurphy7, on 02 November 2012 - 02:01 PM, said:

Firion,

That is a very misleading way of presenting the DHS numbers. In a thread I created and was subsequently locked, I had presented that the break even point with the DHS implementation lay between 16 and 17 DHS. Currently, 17 DHS gets you the equivalent of 24 single heat sinks, but after the patch will only be 23.8, which is a nerf of the heat dissipation for anyone who built a mech with 17 or greater DHS. At 20 DHS you currently get the effect of 30 singles, post patch will be the equivalent of 28 singles. How is that helpful, or useful as a global "upgrade"?

It is a gain for anyone running the stock 10 heat sinks on up to 16 doubles. That gain is diminishing, and only serves to encourage the small energy boating or devotion to a few specific ballistic weapons such as the Gauss rifle.


Take the stock Hunchie with a stock engine, upgrade to DHS. Install a grand total of 15 heatsinks (that's not a major heatsink boat), with the current system you have the equal of 22 heatsinks, new system 21 heatsinks. Depending on the engine, and without even being cheesy, it can easily be a nerf. Remember, only engine mounted heatsinks are singles, not the 1st 10.

Edit: It's even a nerf with the standard hunchie engine at 14 DBL sinks compared to now. At 13 it's an improvement of 2 tenths of a standard heatsink.

Edited by Squigles, 02 November 2012 - 02:12 PM.


#16 HurlockHolmes

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Posted 02 November 2012 - 02:17 PM

View PostJacek Owens, on 02 November 2012 - 01:44 PM, said:

LOL

Couldn't care less about DHS, but then I haven't invested any cash in this game to make a super laser mech.

It's their game and this is beta, and...just perhaps.. the fact that so many of you founders are QQ'ing about their balance changes might mean they are doing the right thing...


Considering you have been playing less for a day and were not in closed beta you should probably stuff it.

"Most" founders want to see the game do well, and if anything it will be the premades and founders who will know whether or not something is op/up.

Even with DHS as it is now a Default K2 minus the machineguns, stuffed with dhs untill there is no more room makes it viable, because of this change, it will most likely not be. And once again will prove that guass>ppc.

#17 Particle Man

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Posted 02 November 2012 - 02:19 PM

Why would we need to do that? they discovered just by internal testing that 2.0 is overpowered. Why push a patch that is unbalanced, only to have to nerf it anyway?

there's no reason to get the QQ crowd used to 2.0HS only to nerf it on them later, when it's ALREADY obvious to them that they are overpowered?

#18 Urza Mechwalker

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Posted 02 November 2012 - 02:20 PM

View PostLightfoot, on 02 November 2012 - 01:41 PM, said:

I am not sure why emailing them is better than using the venue they request we use, the Forums.

As for the 1.4 DHS, well that's just goofy. If I currently run configs with 20 DHS and 10 of them are really singles in the engine that equals 30 heatsinks. If PGI makes them all 1.4 that equals 28 heatsinks. That means that all the 'mechs that don't need many heatsinks are getting a buff, while 'mechs that require heatsinking, like the AWS-9M which doesn't even run with 30 heatsinks, are getting a nerf.

I am sorry, but on the surface it sounds stupid, so it must be to nerf the Hunchback with 9 energy hardpoints and the Jenner with all the energy hardpoints. Heatsinks are not the problem, it's how the Hardpoints are implemented in Mechlab, and here we go again, another gamewide nerf to deal with the hardpoint distribution on two mechs. Just a wild guess.



Exaclty this. DHS are USELES for the mechs that really need them. All assaults will use single heat sinks!

#19 Squigles

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Posted 02 November 2012 - 02:21 PM

View PostParticle Man, on 02 November 2012 - 02:19 PM, said:

Why would we need to do that? they discovered just by internal testing that 2.0 is overpowered. Why push a patch that is unbalanced, only to have to nerf it anyway?

there's no reason to get the QQ crowd used to 2.0HS only to nerf it on them later, when it's ALREADY obvious to them that they are overpowered?


What internal testing? You must have missed the earlier "whoops" (That took precisely one game for many CB testers to find) that led to this "fix".

#20 Bloody

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Posted 02 November 2012 - 02:24 PM

View PostParticle Man, on 02 November 2012 - 02:19 PM, said:

Why would we need to do that? they discovered just by internal testing that 2.0 is overpowered. Why push a patch that is unbalanced, only to have to nerf it anyway?

there's no reason to get the QQ crowd used to 2.0HS only to nerf it on them later, when it's ALREADY obvious to them that they are overpowered?


i already can guess which builds which led to their conclusion. The issue is 2 possibly 3 builds which has led to a blanket nerf of DHS.

now if i was to sit down and think about things i would like change the 2 -3 build loadouts instead of nerfing DHS.





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